WNT, WPA and 2026

[uk_9_ball_convert]

what i mean is "getting something on tv" isn't a thing anymore. even the legacy media tv channels have streaming platforms, and that trend won't reverse..

In the UK the major Matchroom pool events are on Sky Sports which is legacy media tv and still a big deal in the UK as it has lots of Premiership football matches and the Formula 1. Not sure what kind of money Sky are paying them, they spend big on some sports, but doubt they'd spend much on pool

 

[sjm]

Matchroom did not buy the long term rights (in perpetuity) to the WPC in 2000, as it did in 2020. So I viewed the 2000-2003 period as a one-off well before the company committed to a global tour 20 years later. Going into detail about that three-year period didn’t seem necessary to me, but thanks for adding your insight.

Definitely some truth in what you say, but ,,,,

I think that Matchroom's jump into producing the World 9ball in 2000-03 may have been the single biggest moment in the growth of pool in Europe. In the 1990s, you could count the European cueists that played international events on your fingers (Souquet, Ortmann, Feijen, Lely, Chamat, and few, if any, others). The Euro-tour, which was formed in 1992, had yet to attract too much attention. A couple of years later, the Mosconi Cup was devised, but Europe usually took a beating. When European cueists could suddenly try their hand at, or watch, American pool at the World 9ball in Cardiff, American pool's place in their collective consciousness skyrocketed. Even though the World 9ball moved to Asia in 2004, the seed had already been planted. Euro-tour participation took off, and within a decade after that, European pool had caught and passed American pool and since 2009, America has won just two Mosconi Cups.

Whether the World 9ball might have been the launching point for a tour even back then is certainly debatable, but the four events in Cardiff are among the most important ever staged because they jump-started Europe's wide participation in American pool.

 

[uk_9_ball_convert]

Definitely some truth in what you say, but ,,,,

I think that Matchroom's jump into producing the World 9ball in 2000-03 may have been the single biggest moment in the growth of pool in Europe. In the 1990s, you could count the European cueists that played international events on your fingers (Souquet, Ortmann, Feijen, Lely, Chamat, and few, if any, others). The Euro-tour, which was formed in 1992, had yet to attract too much attention. A couple of years later, the Mosconi Cup was devised, but Europe usually took a beating. When European cueists could suddenly try their hand at American pool at the World 9ball in Cardiff, American pool's place in their collective consciousness skyrocketed. Even though the World 9ball moved to Asia in 2004, the seed had already been planted. Euro-tour participation took off, and within a decade after that, European pool had caught and passed American pool and since 2009, America has won just two Mosconi Cups.

Whether the World 9ball might have been the launching point for a tour even back then is certainly debatable, but the four events in Cardiff are among the most important ever staged because they jump-started Europe's wide participation in American pool.

The fact the original Mosconi cups had professional snooker players in it was pretty key in the UK at least to raising awareness of the sport. I doubt more than a handful or people in the UK had ever heard of 9 ball pool before the first Mosconi. Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were all well known to wider public due to snooker, so having them play in early events meant a lot of cue sport fans who had never heard of 9 ball suddenly knew what it was. I'd never seen an American pool table in a UK pool hall back then, now most pool halls will have a similar number of American and UK tables. Though I've still had people come up to me when I'm playing 9 ball asking us what game we are playing, so it's still relatively niche compared to 8 ball even now.

 

[Badpenguin]

Matchroom is still trying to prosper on a dead/dying business model - licensing with broadcast/cable TV providers. That business model is dead for all but the sports that have been established and entrenched for multiple decades (soccer, football, basketball, baseball, etc). Snooker is probably only profitable in small niche markets like the UK.

Matchroom's handling of streaming has been terrible and has probably alienated the majority of the market that would have made pool successful. I am a hardcore pool fan and have completely given up with watching anything matchroom related. If I have to spend 20-30 minutes digging around multiple web and social media sites with different logins required at each and still cannot determine what time I need to reserve to watch matches, I give up. None of the streaming controls work effectively or consistently (can't rewind/pause the live streams for example). First it was DAZN, then their own attempt that completely sucks. At $5 - $10 monthly, at least I was getting what I paid for.

Watching sporting events at empty venues in the Middle East, and sorry to get political, having to stomach the sports washing of Saudi money, just turned me off. Zero inclusion of women and half-hearted attempts at junior events. No coherent schedule. Outright bizarre announcers dressed like they are cosplaying. They killed their biggest revenue possibility by only including certain outer tables on youtube. The list just goes on for me.

I'm pretty sure that travel, particularly for non-US players to the US, and for any players to the Middle East, is going to be a major issue for the next few years. Not only because of expense, but also for personal safety and security. The world is falling apart right now.

Anyway, it appears to me that matchroom's ultimate goal is primarily to tap into gambling revenues. I don't see any obvious business strategy otherwise. I hope they succeed and elevate pro pool while they are at it, but I'm not seeing evidence that they have the ability to.

 

[sjm]

The fact the original Mosconi cups had professional snooker players in it was pretty key in the UK at least to raising awareness of the sport. I doubt more than a handful or people in the UK had ever heard of 9 ball pool before the first Mosconi. Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were all well known to wider public due to snooker, so having them play in early events meant a lot of cue sport fans who had never heard of 9 ball suddenly knew what it was. I'd never seen an American pool table in a UK pool hall back then, now most pool halls will have a similar number of American and UK tables. Though I've still had people come up to me when I'm playing 9 ball asking us what game we are playing, so it's still relatively niche compared to 8 ball even now.

Agreed 100%. The inclusion of snooker players at the Mosconi, chiefly from 1994-97, was a critical step in making Europe more familiar with American pool.

 

[jbart65]

I don't see the diluted fields (compared to a few years ago) being an issue. The fields are strong, new players are coming through, and there are more and more elite players - the game is way stronger at all levels. It won't be long before the "diluted" fields are stronger than the fields of a few years ago when all the "top" (according to someone's list) were all repeatedly at the same events.

Pool is booming globally in terms of strength, exposure and participation.

You might be right, but hardcore fans do like to see lots of established players in big tournaments. I know I do. That said, there is no other sport whose history is very useful to figure out a likely path of pro pool/the WNT.

 

[jbart65]

SVB was never the keenest of travellers. Now that he has a World Championship in the bag and has probably made enough money from the game to see life out, I'm not surprised if that reluctance to travel has kicked back in.

Panozzo also said ... SVB likes Asia and will travel to some events in the region this year.

After listening to SVB on the Boomer and Freezer show, my sense is he will play in all big events in the U.S., plus all "world" title events. So WPA 8-ball and 10-ball. He seems obsessed with winning a "World" 10-ball championship to pad his resume. He speficially mentioned playing in "WPA" events, but I don't recall him mentioning the WNT by name.

If I am right, SVB will play in the WPC, Florida Open, Arizona Open, maybe the Phoenix Open, and the U.S. Open. And he'll play in the big Predator/WPA events I already mentioned.

He'll skip the UK Open and the Philippines Open.

 

[jbart65]

Definitely some truth in what you say, but ,,,,

I think that Matchroom's jump into producing the World 9ball in 2000-03 may have been the single biggest moment in the growth of pool in Europe ...
Whether the World 9ball might have been the launching point for a tour even back then is certainly debatable, but the four events in Cardiff are among the most important ever staged because they jump-started Europe's wide participation in American pool.

I should have interviewed you when doing my research! No surprise, you are a fountain of great info. Please keeping adding and correcting as necessary.

I do wonder if Hearn was already thinking a global tour when MR got involved in the early 2000s with WPC. We had two recessions, in 2001 and 2008-2009, and they were probably a big setback.

 

[jbart65]

Matchroom is still trying to prosper on a dead/dying business model - licensing with broadcast/cable TV providers. That business model is dead for all but the sports that have been established and entrenched for multiple decades (soccer, football, basketball, baseball, etc). Snooker is probably only profitable in small niche markets like the UK.

Matchroom's handling of streaming has been terrible and has probably alienated the majority of the market that would have made pool successful. I am a hardcore pool fan and have completely given up with watching anything matchroom related. If I have to spend 20-30 minutes digging around multiple web and social media sites with different logins required at each and still cannot determine what time I need to reserve to watch matches, I give up. None of the streaming controls work effectively or consistently (can't rewind/pause the live streams for example). First it was DAZN, then their own attempt that completely sucks. At $5 - $10 monthly, at least I was getting what I paid for.

MR knows big TV deals won't be its main source of revenue. That's why WNT TV was created. But as you note, they mishandled its opening act.

I found WNT.TV to work much better this year, especially during the Euro Open. But as you note, still too many problems and shortcomings. Since I am only paying $8 a month, I am not super irritated. It still has to improve a great deal, however.

Watching sporting events at empty venues in the Middle East, and sorry to get political, having to stomach the sports washing of Saudi money, just turned me off. Zero inclusion of women and half-hearted attempts at junior events.

MR has enough trouble trying to make the WNT success without taking on women's pool. Sad but true. It's running as many junior events, if not more, than anyone else, and now appears to be adding to it. Some leeway should be allowed.

The world is falling apart right now.

I always chuckle when I hear this. My father grew up in a single-parent family during the Great Depression - a common situation. He fought in a world war in which 40 million people died. He lived through the Korean War. The Vietnam war. The Cold War and mutually assured destruction. The peace riots. The race riots. The end of Bretton Woods. Watergate. The Latin debt crisis. The Farm crisis. Stagflation.

The world is always messy, but it's less so in our lives than in the lives of our parents, and their parents, and their parents ...

Anyway, it appears to me that matchroom's ultimate goal is primarily to tap into gambling revenues. I don't see any obvious business strategy otherwise. I hope they succeed and elevate pro pool while they are at it, but I'm not seeing evidence that they have the ability to.

Maybe so, but all major sports are directly or indirectly tapping into gambling.

 

[jokrswylde]

The fact the original Mosconi cups had professional snooker players in it was pretty key in the UK at least to raising awareness of the sport. I doubt more than a handful or people in the UK had ever heard of 9 ball pool before the first Mosconi. Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were all well known to wider public due to snooker, so having them play in early events meant a lot of cue sport fans who had never heard of 9 ball suddenly knew what it was. I'd never seen an American pool table in a UK pool hall back then, now most pool halls will have a similar number of American and UK tables. Though I've still had people come up to me when I'm playing 9 ball asking us what game we are playing, so it's still relatively niche compared to 8 ball even now.

The last sentence is a great point. I think for many on here, the pool junkies, Matchroom trying to make 9 ball THE game makes perfect sense. However, what you say rings true, even in my encounters her in the southeast US.

The VAST majority of pool being played in the US is 8 ball. Even at the bar where I used to play league, several time I have tried to play 9 ball with someone and have had to explain the rules of the game, whereas everyone knows how to play 8 ball, even if there are a multitude of subsets of "house or bar" rules.

I feel this will always be the case as long as coin operated tables rule the bars.

Just for fun here is what Gemini AI provides:

Approximately 65% to 70% of all pool participants in the United States are considered casual players who play fewer than 13 times per year.

The vast majority of the pool-playing population falls into the "casual" category, often defined by recreational play in social settings like bars or home environments.
Eight-ball is the most played pool game in the United States. It is the standard game found in nearly every American bar and home, often treated as synonymous with the word "pool" itself by casual players.
While eight-ball dominates the social and amateur landscape, nine-ball is the most popular game at the professional and competitive tournament levels.

This is certainly not anything new or groundbreaking to us, the same things have been said many times on here before. However it does serve to reinforce those points.

It just seems to me an exercise in futility. The most popular game to the casuals, whose money and viewership is needed, is not being promoted as THE professional game.

And again, I am trying to look at it from the perspective of a brand new, casual player and not someone who carries their own balls around to pool halls or has projector systems set up on their home tables.

Would darts viewership be as high if televised tournaments and championships were contested using a dart game that very few people in the local pub have heard of or played and didn't quite understand the rules?

 

[Jerry R]

The last sentence is a great point. I think for many on here, the pool junkies, Matchroom trying to make 9 ball THE game makes perfect sense. However, what you say rings true, even in my encounters her in the southeast US.

The VAST majority of pool being played in the US is 8 ball. Even at the bar where I used to play league, several time I have tried to play 9 ball with someone and have had to explain the rules of the game, whereas everyone knows how to play 8 ball, even if there are a multitude of subsets of "house or bar" rules.

I feel this will always be the case as long as coin operated tables rule the bars.

Just for fun here is what Gemini AI provides:

Approximately 65% to 70% of all pool participants in the United States are considered casual players who play fewer than 13 times per year.

The vast majority of the pool-playing population falls into the "casual" category, often defined by recreational play in social settings like bars or home environments.
Eight-ball is the most played pool game in the United States. It is the standard game found in nearly every American bar and home, often treated as synonymous with the word "pool" itself by casual players.
While eight-ball dominates the social and amateur landscape, nine-ball is the most popular game at the professional and competitive tournament levels.

This is certainly not anything new or groundbreaking to us, the same things have been said many times on here before. However it does serve to reinforce those points.

It just seems to me an exercise in futility. The most popular game to the casuals, whose money and viewership is needed, is not being promoted as THE professional game.

And again, I am trying to look at it from the perspective of a brand new, casual player and not someone who carries their own balls around to pool halls or has projector systems set up on their home tables.

Would darts viewership be as high if televised tournaments and championships were contested using a dart game that very few people in the local pub have heard of or played and didn't quite understand the rules?

I agree and have said before choosing 9 ball was a huge mistake. The recent rise of Heyball (more so globally than in USA) and the money behind it will likely make it more dominate. The times I've travelled to Europe seems like most were playing English eight ball or blackball. When/if pool gets into Olympics, we will certainly be watching Heyball.

 

[jbart65]

I agree and have said before choosing 9 ball was a huge mistake. The recent rise of Heyball (more so globally than in USA) and the money behind it will likely make it more dominate. The times I've travelled to Europe seems like most were playing English eight ball or blackball. When/if pool gets into Olympics, we will certainly be watching Heyball.

Don't agree. Eight-ball is fun to play, especially for intermediate players like me. But it is boring to watch the pros play. A World 8-ball Tour would not succeed any better, and might do worse, than a 9 ball tour. You might gain more casual fans and lose more hardcore ones.

Pro pool will probably always be a niche sport regardless. How big a niche is what MR is trying to determine.

As for heyball, is there really a lot of money in the game outside of mainland China? I don't see any evidence of that.