why do some cue makers

[danutz]

I am curious as to why Mr. Wayne did not address this issue of his cues warping and not standing behind them, especially several to one buyer. To me that is the most important thing that a cue stays straight, even cues I get from overseas like PI have stayed straight and considering its so humid there and dry here in Arizona that says a lot.

Any, and all cues made of wood can warp. The builder can only do so much, to prevent it. I highly doubt there's a builder out there, that has'nt had a few warp, at no fault of their own. You are very lucky so far, that your PI cues have'nt, yet. Give it some time, they will If not, your's are one of the few that don't. Good luck with that.

 

[Paul Dayton]

As a side point what practical application does a .005" endmill have in cue making? The flute length of the endmill is only .015". So other than engraving I fail to see how these can be used in the building of cues. I have seen these numbers thrown around here and am a little skeptical.

As long as you are not special ordering .055" depth of cut end mills you might be right, Dennis is. I do some inlays that are .030" wide and mills as big as .010" produce dots with flats. I need the smaller size and with inlays that small, they don't need to be particularly thick but the cue needs to be final size.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Any, and all cues made of wood can warp. The builder can only do so much, to prevent it. I highly doubt there's a builder out there, that has'nt had a few warp, at no fault of their own. You are very lucky so far, that your PI cues have'nt, yet. Give it some time, they will If not, your's are one of the few that don't. Good luck with that.

Mr. Wayne could give anyone in this thread the 6 out when it comes to building cues, and i for one hope that he does'nt stop posting his valuable insight on the matter.

How about you haters go back to nutswinging, and kissing your favorite maker of the weeks a$$, like normal. I see alot of you guys touting makers that can't hold a candle to TW's work, even in their wildest dreams.

I understand cues are wood but if you buy several cues from someone and they all warp then I think there is a problem on their end. I have owned my cue from PI for well over a year, been to Derby with it, NY, California and live in AZ so its been all over and the cue rolls straight, inlays have not popped, so if it has not moved by now I doubt it will. I believe a cue maker should stand behind a product and if it warps then it needs to be fixed, if its been abused that is one thing, but if its been in a closet or was purchased recently then it should be straight. I do understand about shafts warping especially when they are taken down to thin but a butt warping is a different issue altogether. This is not a personal attack on Mr. Wayne, it goes for all cue makers out there, stand behind your work. If I bought a Szamboti from Barry and a few months later the butt warped then I would expect him to fix the problem and I am sure he would.

 

[1pRoscoe]

I think any cuemaker who fails to hand cut sharp corners in ANY cue he's selling is just plain lazy - IF the design benefits from a crisp, sharp look, that is.

Regarding the Searing in question, here's an opportunity for you to decide if the design calls for sharp corners:

I personally think any inlaid diamond shape looks better with sharp corners, and especially feel it's mandatory for any diamond-in-diamond design. Your taste, however, may differ - so you'll have to decide for yourself. Then, if you agree the crisp, sharp inlay looks better in a V-point cue, the next question is whether Searing is capable of doing it.

TW

Thomas, I'm sure it's already been said that this cue is 10+ years old, but I'm curious - what is your take on these diamonds? Is this the same as the above as a sign of laziness? This is a diamond in diamond inlay, no?

 

[JB Cases]

I think any cuemaker who fails to hand cut sharp corners in ANY cue he's selling is just plain lazy - IF the design benefits from a crisp, sharp look, that is.

Regarding the Searing in question, here's an opportunity for you to decide if the design calls for sharp corners:

I personally think any inlaid diamond shape looks better with sharp corners, and especially feel it's mandatory for any diamond-in-diamond design. Your taste, however, may differ - so you'll have to decide for yourself. Then, if you agree the crisp, sharp inlay looks better in a V-point cue, the next question is whether Searing is capable of doing it.

TW

Preserved for posterity.

 

[1pRoscoe]

What about these "diamond into diamond" inlays?

(yes, they are tiny and are razor sharp.... it's a shame I don't have better pics but I'm certain the current owner can post some....)

This cue was made in 2008....

 

[ribdoner]

Thomas, I'm sure it's already been said that this cue is 10+ years old, but I'm curious - what is your take on these diamonds? Is this the same as the above as a sign of laziness? This is a diamond in diamond inlay, no?

R,

Is that a McDermott?

 

[danutz]

R,

Is that a McDermott?

Probably

 

[Fast Lenny]

R,

Is that a McDermott?

Might be a Dale Perry. :smile:

 

[JB Cases]

There is a point here I think worth mentioning as it relates to to the personalities of the cuemakers, I cant say for sure if this applies to TW because I don't know the man but his work reflects a type of character. The people who strive for a very high level of perfection and are very critical of themselfs. This also is sometimes how they treat others. That being said every one likes to beat up on the perfectionist but at the end of the day who do they want working on there stuff? The guy that is easy going? Or the guy that only settles for perfection? IMO sometimes it is hard to have both, because what is considered a character flaw is what enables the perfection in there work.

Don't confuse creativity with perfectionism. Some people are very creative but not perfectionists. I tend to believe that rarely are both things present in the same person. Dennis is a perfectionist when it comes to constructing cues. Thomas, in my opinion, is not. Thomas excels at coming up with intricate and interesting designs but does not have a reputation for making cues that play well. This is fairly well known among pool players.

Dennis on the other hand seems to be obsessed with making cues that hit like gold. I suspect his tolerances are tighter than just about anyone else's.

During the cue roundtable held a few years ago Thomas was mostly interested in talking about decoration and Bill Schick brought up what I thought was a very interesting point about tolerances. He said that Balabuska and Szamboti both worked with very close tolerances and that to him this is what makes the difference in whether a cue stays straight and hits good or not.

Now, not being able to cut up or x-ray everyone's cues, and with no desire to, I have NO IDEA how Thomas' tolerances stack up to Dennis' or anyone else's. But based on my personal experience with a couple of Searing's cues and couple of Wayne's cues I think that Searing probably is much more the perfectionist as a builder of cues than Thomas is.

Just my opinion. Being a lowly case maker I don't know all too much about cue making despite having been in many shops and factories. In cases I can tell you with 100% accuracy that some look way better than they are.

 

[dannylee]

and these diamonds...

 

[Thomas Wayne]

[...]

Thomas excels at coming up with intricate and interesting designs but does not have a reputation for making cues that play well. This is fairly well known among pool players.

[...]

Ah yes, I was wondering when John 'Waste-of-Skin' Collins/Barton/Whatever was going to chime in with one of his scumbag cheap shots.

And, just like the "all TW cues warp" bullshit, it's particularly insidious because it's impossible to disprove. For as many decades as I've been in cuemaking I've heard both those claims, at one time or another, used to discredit almost every top cuemaker alive. Anytime someone wants to "get" a particular cuemaker they'll shoot some similar accusation out of their asses.

You can't disprove a negative claim - there's no way any cuemaker can follow all his cues around to know what is (or is NOT) being said about them. But there are a few things I can note in response:

1) Every customer who has bought one of my cues directly from me plays pool - which, by definition, makes them pool players - and most are repeat customers. So it would appear that first hand opinion runs counter to Barton/Collins/Whatever's bullshit.

2) I first met Jerry McWorter at a California tournament where, in a side match up, Kim Davenport was playing Morro (Ismael Perez?) for a $25k freeze-up. Mooro was using one of Jerry's cues, while Davenport was using one of mine (I've never given any player a cue, so he must have bought it himself). So there's at least one world class pool player who thought my cues play okay.

3) I've read several posts over the years (on various forums) written by players who say they like how my cues play, and I've received many letters (early on) and, more recently emails, from pool players who say they like how their TW cues hit. I guess Barton/Collins/Whatever must not talk to those guys much...

Still, no one can disprove a negative cheap shot, and if you build cues long enough I can guarantee someone who wants to "dis" you will be laying that kind of shit on you too. So I'll just have to fall back on one indisputable ( and comforting) fact - I still sell every cue I can possibly make.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And while I'm at it I'll make one other point. I'm an American citizen - have been all my life - and I firmly believe one of the major causes of the dismal American economy is all the low-cost goods flooding the U.S. from cheap-labor countries like China. American manufacturing is all but dead because we've allowed cheap knock-offs of American products past our borders with no import tax and little concern for their quality.

In Xiamen, China - where JB Cases are made - the average monthly income is just over $300 (usd). By contrast the average American family spends over $500 per month on groceries alone. There is no way an American factory worker can survive on the same income as a Chinese worker. That means - indisputably - any American citizen who intentionally buys Chinese-made goods (when they have readily available American-made choices) is contributing to the decline of American manufacturing.

Now, I realize with WalMart being the largest retail chain in the U.S. (and many others following suit) there is no way to completely avoid Chinese made products. As a country we've clearly come to accept cheap prices over good quality. But now this compromise is starting to bite us in the ass. Why, just the other day I bought a ~ $10 bag of zip-ties at Home Depot, only to have them snap like dry twigs the minute I tried to use them. Obviously, the Chinese zip-tie manufacturer had substituted inferior plastic for the pure Nylon they should have used. Home Depot refunded my money, and it's only U.S.-made zip-ties for me from now on (Thomas & Betts, to be exact)

So I would urge every patriotic American citizen to buy only American made products whenever possible. If you're not part of the solution, then you're unarguably part of the problem - and a good first step might just be to NOT spend your discretionary income on a cue case made in China, especially when there are plenty of world-class case makers right here in the good ol' USA.

TW

 

[danutz]

WORD!! F them commy basturds, and their cheap a$$ crap. Wow, it's so surprising to see JB posting paragraphs of utter nonsense. Go figure.
TW's cues play great, and i'll bet they hold up alot better than his commy cases Commy cases, lol, has a nice ring to it, don't it? You're welcome JB What'cha got into one of them anyways, about 20 yen including labor?

 

[scdiveteam]

WORD!! F them commy basturds, and their cheap a$$ crap. Wow, it's so surprising to see JB posting paragraphs of utter nonsense. Go figure.
TW's cues play great, and i'll bet they hold up alot better than his commy cases Commy cases, lol, has a nice ring to it, don't it? You're welcome JB What'cha got into one of them anyways, about 20 yen including labor?

Dan,

Governments are communists and the people just happen to live under their rule. We should trade with all countries but the balance of trade should be equal under perfect conditions.

Today the trade imbalance is lop sided and must be made equal without tariffs. If we all made an effort to modify our purchasing habits the US consumer can completely change the markets.

The problem is we need leadership that educates the electorate.

China as it develops will face it's own problems concerning their masses and labor unrest eventually.

Rick

 

[cueman]

Don't confuse creativity with perfectionism. Some people are very creative but not perfectionists. I tend to believe that rarely are both things present in the same person. Dennis is a perfectionist when it comes to constructing cues. Thomas, in my opinion, is not. Thomas excels at coming up with intricate and interesting designs but does not have a reputation for making cues that play well. This is fairly well known among pool players.

I have had a few people through the years tell me Thomas makes a good hitting cue. I have never been much of a fan of stainless jointed cues. I told Thomas this at a trade show back in the 90's some time and he insisted I go shoot a ball with his stainless jointed cue. He wanted me to know a stainless jointed cue could have that nice softer feel like non stainless jointed cues have. It was very impressive. I have only played with a couple of stainless jointed cues that I really liked and felt played as good as my phenolic joint cues. Thomas made one and Dan Janes made the other. And ironically both were inducted into the International Cuemakers Hall of Fame a couple of weeks ago. I am not saying everyone of their cues played that good, but both made at least one world class playing cue that I know of.

 

[danutz]

Scd, that may be, but still, they're an openly communist, socialist society, that sends a billion dollars in "goods" lol our way every day. that's 4X as much as we send them, if not more. Not only that, but their workforce are basically prisoners. They make $200 or less a month, and HAVE to work whatever hours they're told to. So, by us buying all their "goods", we are saying we approve of the way they treat their people, and some say we're buying alot more than that. It's real simple, either we break our addiction to cheap commy goods, or we become how they were before we gave them all our money. You say it's their government, not the people. I say if we go to war with them, their government will arm them, and they will be shooting at us. So, the government, and it's people are one and the same.
Fact is, we're enemies, and another fact is that, we are paying for the guns, and bullets they will use to kill us when/if we go to war with them. The face of communism may change (before it was Russia) but their values stay the same. You can bet your ass this war was started long ago, and this economic role reversal is part of it, and i dare not think what comes next. All i know is that we asleep at the wheel americans are handing them the keys to our demise, and for little more than the price of cheap labor. Guess what, i hear china is looking to expand their slave labor force, would you care to take a wild guess as to whom those laborers will be?:frown:

 

[TomHay]

I am not going to argue facts but I live in a real world.

Fact number 1. The USA owes China and Japan each more money than they do any other country in the world.

Fact number 2. If you take apart a Motorla surf board modem you will find a sticker saying made in China.

Fact number 3. Look at everything you have from your computer to TV to your stereos, microwaves etc and take out anything not made by China or Japan, see what you have that still works.

Fact number 4. Lets go past China and Japan. Only buy fuel that came from and refined in the USA.

Fact number 5. Only use wood grown in the USA and cue tips made in USA.

Fact number 6. The Miz collection by one of the most respected Hall Of Famers was all made in Japan.

Fact number 7. The average American Family cannot afford to buy all strictly made in USA products and pay bills.

Before I am labled a Commie and cut and pastes are made, I never said I liked the facts. Those are just facts and just a slight number of them.

Where do we go from here? Our elected officials allowed and allow all this to happen. The people of the United States elected said officials so the buck stops right here, we are the people.

You can take a true stand if you want. It starts by getting rid of anything that came from any other country which again includes any wood not grown in this Country. You will than have to walk to Washington to meet with your goverment officials because you will not be able to drive, fly, call or email them.

We (the ones reading this thread) are not to blame, it is a gradual thing that happened and became a monster.

A while back I owned a Jaguar and a Chevy. Funny thing was the Jag was made in the USA and the Chevy was made in Mexico.

Last fact, we have been in a War with England, Japan and Germany we have never been at War with Russia or China.

Dare I hit the submit button? Sure, as I said I don't like the facts but I am not prepared to throw away everything I have not totaly made in the USA. Until I or anyone else is we must live with the facts.

 

[peterskw]

Someone mentioned that Mr. Searing was humble--here's my story.

At Valley Forge someone pulled out an amazing Searing cue and as I looked at it I said "incredible!". From behind me, I heard, very softly in my ear, "thank-you" and I turned around and it was Dennis (whom I've never met). That made my day!!

KP

 

[scdiveteam]

Scd, that may be, but still, they're an openly communist, socialist society, that sends a billion dollars in "goods" lol our way every day. that's 4X as much as we send them, if not more. Not only that, but their workforce are basically prisoners. They make $200 or less a month, and HAVE to work whatever hours they're told to. So, by us buying all their "goods", we are saying we approve of the way they treat their people, and some say we're buying alot more than that. It's real simple, either we break our addiction to cheap commy goods, or we become how they were before we gave them all our money. You say it's their government, not the people. I say if we go to war with them, their government will arm them, and they will be shooting at us. So, the government, and it's people are one and the same.
Fact is, we're enemies, and another fact is that, we are paying for the guns, and bullets they will use to kill us when/if we go to war with them. The face of communism may change (before it was Russia) but their values stay the same. You can bet your ass this war was started long ago, and this economic role reversal is part of it, and i dare not think what comes next. All i know is that we asleep at the wheel americans are handing them the keys to our demise, and for little more than the price of cheap labor. Guess what, i hear china is looking to expand their slave labor force, would you care to take a wild guess as to whom those laborers will be?:frown:

Dan,

You make some points that are correct but historically, countrys that trade together don't go to war.

We definitely need to weam ourselves off of products that we can make here and level the trade back and forth.

rick

 

[TomHay]

What comes around goes around. A suggested good read.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/19/news/companies/gm_china/index.htm