You are probably right. Especially since it's your idea. Lol
"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
You are probably right. Especially since it's your idea. Lol
I disagree.
The truth is that after a while we all know where to aim but we cannot hit that spot consistently because of any one and/or a combination of factors like a poor set up or faulty stroke execution. OR it might be that a player cannot -- or is unaware of how to -- compensate for things like distance, swerve, squirt, spin, speed, or CIT, to name a few.
Aiming is easy. But it's not just a straight line kinda thing, connecting Point A to Point B. It's all about allowing for all the variables. And that's what makes pool as much an art form as science.
Lou Figueroa
You're right, after a while we all know where to aim. But how long does this "while" take? With traditional learning (ghostball, contact points, old-school fractional aiming, etc...) it takes a long while. Knowing where to aim is dependent on the development of a fairly consistent stroke. A player with a poor stroke or faulty fundamentals may have an idea of where to aim, but he doesn't "know" whether or not his ideas are accurate because his intermittent stroke is not providing enough positive results to confirm his hunches. So he is forced to learn two things at the same time, unaware of which concept is developing first.
It seems that pocketing balls with consistency can be narrowed down to 2 basic processes: 1 - visualization, knowing and seeing the exact location where the cb needs to be without guesswork and without trial and error, taking in account such variables as throw and applied english that mess with the natural angle of the shot. 2 - having good alignment and a consistent stroke guaranteed to send the CB toward this known location.
Aiming is only easy once you have a good handle on these 2 processes. Having an accurate method of knowing exactly where the CB needs to be, not based on guesswork or hours of trial and error, should automatically eliminate one of these 2 processes, which should provide a shorter learning time to successfully start pocketing balls.
This is where a good statistical analysis, as Dan has suggested, would come in handy. It just may turn out that you are 100% correct. But it could also prove that a good aiming system provides a great advantage to upcoming players.
Dennis,
FYI, that is not an accurate statement. There are a wide variety of aiming systems that some people find helpful, especially for certain shots and situations. In fact, Bob and I have put out a 3-DVD instructional series called How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) dealing with aiming systems. So we certainly don't think buying such a product is stupid.
It is true that Bob and I both think some "aiming system" proponents in the past have made unreasonable (and sometimes outrageous) claims about the magical nature of their system (for example, see the satirical DAM marketing blurb). But cut-shot aiming systems do offer both tangible and intangible benefits to the people who find them helpful.
Regards,
Dave
To the best of my recollection, your reasons were:
"I'm too lazy and I'm not good enough to get decent scores, and it would be too embarrassing to post my results." :grin-square:
I hope you reconsider some day. The experience might actually help you improve your game. Honestly, whenever I dedicate time to the BU Exams (in attempts to better my personal-record scores), the practice always makes me play better by really making me aware of the things I need to focus on.
Catch you later,
Dave
Dennis,
FYI, that is not an accurate statement. There are a wide variety of aiming systems that some people find helpful, especially for certain shots and situations. In fact, Bob and I have put out a 3-DVD instructional series called How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) dealing with aiming systems. So we certainly don't think buying such a product is stupid.
It is true that Bob and I both think some "aiming system" proponents in the past have made unreasonable (and sometimes outrageous) claims about the magical nature of their system (for example, see the satirical DAM marketing blurb). But cut-shot aiming systems do offer both tangible and intangible benefits to the people who find them helpful.
Regards,
Dave
When my new website is up you can count on it that your ignorance about CTE will be referenced.
If you doubt your ignorance about CTE in that you actually think you know what it is then I'm available for public debate once my book is out.
Stan Shuffett
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Stan,
I will be happy to add links to your stuff when it is available. Please let me know when your new website goes live. I am always happy to improve the resources on my website by linking to or quoting new material when it becomes available.
Regards,
Dave
Assuming that you are a man of your word you communicated to me that you would not link or discuss any more of my material on your site. You have butchered CTE!!
Stan Shuffett
Stan,
I have never said or written this. Again, I will be happy to link to your new website and any helpful sources of information you might provide. In fact, I already have a link to your website on the ProOne resource page. That has been there for many years.
Regards,
Dave
When you invited me to be a BU instructor if you will remember I hotly declined. I was pissed off and you know exactly why. It was during that exchange that you said you would NOT put anything else concerning my work on your site in the form of discussion or revealing new content.......you did indicate that you'd link it......meaning nothing written or presented personally by you.
Stan Shuffett
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Stan,
When I invited you to be listed as a BU Senior Instructor, I was honestly shocked when you declined my offer. There are many top instructors on that list, and I was offering you free advertising and an opportunity to earn some profit. FYI, I made the Senior Instructor offer only to a select handful of people, and you were the only one to decline. The others on the Senior Instructor list (who did not get the original offer) have earned the position due to their involvement in and dedication to the BU.
Honestly, I didn't have a clue why you were upset with my offer. The only thing I could think of was that you didn't like not being on the list of BU Founding Professors. If that is the case, you simply had a misunderstanding. The only instructors on the BU Founding Professors list are the instructors who helped me develop the original Billiard University concept and playing-ability exams. All of the instructors listed provided valuable input and guidance (especially Bob Jewett, Tom Simpson, Mike Page, and Randy Russell). The only other way to be put on the BU Founding Professors list is to advance as a Senior Instructor, per the info here. That structure was in place when the Billiard University was founded in 2012, just before I invited you to be included.
BTW, my offer to include you still stands, because I know you are a capable, enthusiastic, and respected instructor.
Stan, I know you don't approve of some of the info on my website, but you need to get over this, IMO. It is my site, and I have the right to present material and quote information and resources from others in my own style, using the best information available to me. Again, I am happy to link to your new website and any new DVDs of yours when they become available.
With respect,
Dave
PS: Stan, I know you have many issues with me and my website, but I've done my best to offer numerous "olive branches" over the years to show respect. I hope you accept them for what they are at some point in the future.
PS: Stan, I will let you have the "last word." I will not continue to reply if you continue to accuse me of being a liar or of being insincere, because you are wrong on these counts.
I'd be a fool to associate myself with someone that gets their jollies by poking at CTE and more specifically my work. You can't deny that and then for you to have the gall to invite me to join forces........what a joke....
Here is essentially what you said in an email to me during our back and forth.
I CERTAINLY WONT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR NEW WORK OR ITS CONTENT ON MY SITE......you did go on to say that you'd be happy to link it.
Stan Shuffett
Ummm could you guys take this to private and not on the public forum for all to see. I come on here to read others incites on the a mentioned thread. Not to read about you 2 with a pissing war. Thx appreciate it.
Dr Dave dropped his stink bomb on this thread and his negative reference to my work. I merely defended my work and am proud to do so.
Stan Shuffett
I don't think it takes that long to get the basic visual down. I mean, if you can visualize a ghost ball or contact point, what's so hard?
The thing is that a shot with say (picking a random number here) a 20 degree cut, changes dramatically depending on what you're trying to do with the CB. That's what takes a long time and no aiming system in the world is going to accommodate all the variables in any useable form. (Just in passing, this is also the reason rotation players have such a hard time at 1pocket -- they are shooting shots they "know" with unfamiliar speeds and spins.)
Follow it, draw it, stun it, spin it, drag it... throw in some elevation for a little more fun. How about the speed of the cloth?
Aiming is easy. Executing -- accounting for all the variables -- is not.
Lou Figueroa
lou
once again we agree....:wink:
i think if developing players work on the perfect stop shot
then learn how to aim
they will be champions
i think in china
they teach tennis to juniors
where for the first few years they never hit a tennis ball....
just practice their strokes
then when the stroke is like tieing their shoes they move on to htiting a tennis ball and learn how to play
As you know I agree that aiming is a minor issue compared to delivering the cue ball where you want it. However, inexperienced players don't know that. They are not really sure whether they missed due to aim or stroke, and often never really know (hence the proliferation of aiming systems). A system (yes I guess it is a system) like Poolology gives that player a foundation to fall back on. Let's say a newbie learns some standard Poolology shots - half ball, 3/4 ball, 1/4 ball, etc. With some practice, he will be confident that he can hit these fractions when he is paying attention. So with the Poolology "cheat sheet" in his back pocket, he is more likely to recognize the problem as a stroke issue rather than having no clue. Knowledge is good.
The other issue is that it takes years before some players start using english. I recall playing on and off since I was a kid, but I clearly remember being in college at the student union thinking about how I really needed to bear down and start paying attention to position play. The point is that new players can go for a very long time before they worry about using english. My intuition says that Poolology will accelerate the learning curve to the point where the player feels confident enough to start on the next phase of the game.
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Cookie asked me an interesting question. He wanted to know why I don't contribute anything positive to this forum. Of course that is not true so I looked up his post history and find little to no positive contribution from him.
So while I was at it I took a look at your posting history, too. Can you recall the last time you contributed something positive to this forum, rather than engaging in flame wars, calling people liars and making personal insults?
Don't bother answering. There is a one way street here that I best not go down. I would like to repeat Dr. Dave's suggestion that you just let it go and let people have their own opinions without you going to war about everything. Just move on and post something positive. I think you'll find things are much more civil here now. For my part, I really no longer have any interest one way or the other in CTE so if you post some positive things that help people then more power to you.
I have been in limbo for awhile concerning the sharing of info here because of my book project. Honestly, I don't think that I will ever be able share my info on this forum again.
It's very hard to pull up anchor here but I promise you that it's on my mind big time. I do realize that I am fairly worthless to most on this site as things currently exist. I'd say that my remaining posts on AZ are definitely numbered.
Stan Shuffett
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