Need Help Identifying Table Manufacturer

[Cigar Guy]

My billiard table looks exactly like a Peter Vitalie Lord Nelson model, however the Peter Vitalie Company did not start business operations until 1988 and I have owned the table since 1986. There is no date or manufacturer's name or marking anywhere on the table. It is a 6 leg, full size 8 foot table with leather pockets. The slate is a little more than a full inch thick, in 3 pieces sitting on a frame constructed of 2x12 inch boards. The only marking is the word “Glaze” written in magic marker on the underside of one of the side boards. All of the woodwork appears to be hand carved and the leather pockets hand tooled. It’s definitely a well-made table.

I have no knowledge of its history except that it had to have been built before 1984, which was when I first saw it in the “Ball Room” (approx. 2000 sq. ft. separate building solely used for entertaining) on an estate purchased by the friend I acquired it from, from which I draw the conclusion that it wasn’t cheap.

Does anyone know what the Vitalie Lord Nelson table was based on? Was the Lord Nelson a copy of a preexisting design? I’ve attached several pictures of the underside in case the method of construction is recognizably specific to a particular manufacturer.

Any information or even an idea of its origin would be greatly appreciated.

 

[garczar]

Import table. They imported these things by the container load. These Chinese built tables were sold under various names at game room stores nationwide.

 

[Cigar Guy]

My experience with Chinese knockoff goods is that they are low quality. This table is not. If it is a knockoff any idea what design they copied? It predates Vitalie so the style had to come from some other manufacturer.

 

[garczar]

My experience with Chinese knockoff goods is that they are low quality. This table is not. If it is a knockoff any idea what design they copied? It predates Vitalie so the style had to come from some other manufacturer.

Not always. I've seen a bunch of this type table. Asian tables can vary from junk to high quality. 99% of these home-style tables are made in China. Its possible it was made stateside but the vast majority are not. Without a name tag i'm still sticking with it coming from an Asian shop. Vitalie's were made in NC iirc but they clearly marked/tagged their stuff. The scroll-work is most likely CNC routed.

 

[garczar]

Might contact: https://dlbilliards.com/collections/used-tables?page=2 they sell a lot of used V stuff. They might know.

 

[Cigar Guy]

Thank you for responding. I will check with D & L as you suggested

 

[mikemosconi]

There was a guy in Wallingford Ct making tables like this - an independent maker

 

[hang-the-9]

That image with the pocket, it's not lined up very well at all with the rail wood, not sure if a higher end maker like Vitalie would have that on their tables.

 

[Benelli]

Could it be a Blatt, was it purchased out of NY/NJ/CT?

 

[Lawnboy77]

Could it be a Blatt, was it purchased out of NY/NJ/CT?

I don’t think so, all the U.S. makers put their name on the rail, or an apron.

 

[Benelli]

I don’t think so, all the U.S. makers put their name on the rail, or an apron.

So I know with Blatt that if you custom ordered the table and paid custom order prices you can say no nameplate.

There could be markings/manufacture dates on the tops of the legs or on the interior of the frame.

 

[kid]

I worked on one exactly like the one on your pics. Also installed the vitali one. Peter vitali’s frame is way better designed and all hardwood . You should be able to find some chinese stamping underneath the rails.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant AzBilliards Forums

 

[garczar]

Could it be a Blatt, was it purchased out of NY/NJ/CT?

no

 

[wakuljr]

Could be a "Renaissance" table, bought by AMF. I think they were a independent table make out of California.

 

[MitchAlsup]

The interior corners and side to side bracing resemble the table at our Frat house made in 1918.

 

[Pierre Shakes]

It is likely a Trafalgar model by World of Leisure. I only sold the one to my lawyer in 1992. I sold many Lord Ns over two decades, several were 10’ snooker. The proportions were different than the Lord Nelson - looked taller, but wasn’t. My customers are still playing on the 9’ Lord Nelson I got in 1990 and still are amazed to be allowed to play on such a table.

I heard a story that the owners of WoL and Peter Viatalie argued at a trade show and then went home and ripped off each other’s designs. PV stole the Trafalgar and WoL stole the Le Meiux.

 

[3kushn]

Could be a "Renaissance" table, bought by AMF. I think they were a independent table make out of California.

I believe the original Renaissance series was from Playmaster out of Bland, MO Renaissance was their series of table with a lot of carved wood.
Sometime late 80's early 90's?? AMF purchased Playmaster. Playmaster at the time also had a division down the street that made leather pockets. I'm not sure if they were marketed under the name of Playmaster or not.

I've got a gut feeling that World of Leisure was the next step after AMF got out of the Pool table business.

 

[fastone371]

I did look into renaissance and couldn't find a website or anything because that's what the mover setup guy said possibly could be or trafalgar ...or some weird name like that, also could not find on Google. Be weird for a company to build without markings... and it's kind of built way more stout than I would think an Asian import table would be , but multiple decades ago who knows. The attention to detail on it doesn't seem like cheap labor to me.

Not to knock your table, its a nice looking table but this is what a stout table frame generally would look like, they don't seem comparative in "beefiness" Also, you narrow rails scream of Asian import design, especially where they narrow up to meet the pockets. Very cool looking table, if the manufacturer got the sub-rail thickness close it should play pretty nice with the thick slate. One thing common with Aisan import tables is that they often have pretty generous corner pocket widths, did you put 2 balls side by side in the openings to get an idea of how big the pockets are?

 

[fastone371]

That looks better, I couldn't see the long stringer down the center in the other pics. Its also harder to tell what the frame looks like looking up from the bottom.

 

[fjk]

I have the same table built the same way, any idea on what it is yet if it's not a lord nelson since no Vitalie badge. Mine is also probably as old as yours. Guy who bought before me bought it used 20 years ago. Mine does have custom leopard print pockets on the leather and a knurling on the top rails. I could not find any markings or writing anywhere but didnt think to look when it was actually apart. Construction looks same as the original poster. Slate is atleast 1 inch. I will measure pocket thickness and can take other pictures later if any suggestions. This is a 9 ft table.View attachment 742215View attachment 742216

What you got against wall pictures?