Loved his game, can't stand the person.
C. J. Wiley - A Touch of Inside
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
What has been going on forever is not being able to start a thread about what a top pro player uses to pocket balls without getting attacked by some long-time self-proclaimed forum whiz on everything pool and how it's played or not to be played. Where else can you find a "nobody" who trumps what a pro does or says to do?Have you ever seen these two go at it before?
This has been going on forever.
In person or based on videos and the internet?
dendweller
Well-known member
yeah, never seen the trap be on the main forum though.Have you ever seen these two go at it before?
This has been going on forever.
Used to happen a lot, before they made a separate Aiming Section... there were several other notable prolific posters involved. It was fun, at times. Its kinda like Highlander, they keep after each other over time and space, forever and ever.
(And don't get me wrong, I enjoy a lot of what each of them post. When it's not in the middle of one of these skirmishes. I suppose it's kind of comforting, in a twisted sort of way...you can always count on Death, Taxes, and PJ/Spidey)
Let me ask you a question and please answer from a commonsense position. How is it wrong or against forum rules for me to start a thread about CJ Wiley and a TOI video, and get jumped on by PJ starting his shit and that's OK?
HE was the one who was primarily the main source for running CJ off the forum because CJ got fed up and couldn't take it any longer. The thread I started wasn't to start crap. I recently tried it on my own and it damn well works. Did I break forum rules by posting the video? The video was worth showing based on what I got out of it. Does it mean I'm going to stop using what I'm known to use which is CTE? (Oh God, I swore and broke all the rules with those 3 letters) Absolutely NOT! But it was an interesting experiment and TOI IS VALID.
Spidey,
You are 100% within your right to start any thread (within a modicum of forum protocol). What I don't care for equating your perceived knowledge gap over PJ because you believe that your skill level is higher. Lets say for example that I play better than you. Is your input less valid? Plus you went from discussion to DEFCON 1 in 3 posts.
For what it's worth I also use a touch of inside when it works for me. But my alignment has zero to do with CTE unless it happens to fall on one of those results (I'm a fractions guy, as are most snooker players).
I'm sure you have skills. What you lack is an understanding of the difference between skill and knowledge. That doesn't make you or the great players whose techniques you promote bad players (or people) - it just means your promotional posts need some clarifying for readers who are learning.
pj
chgo
You posted a thread, as is your right, and he responded, as is his right. No one is stopping you from ignoring him and interacting with the other interested posters.
I don't have an issue with you posting it. I'm certainly no one to judge anything. CJ was good enough to send me a video when he first started posting here. I appreciated that kind gesture. I dunno how much of it stuck with me, but it was good to see.
What I will reply is that you both jump into each others stuff. No, I don't know who does it more. No, I don't know who started it. I'm merely a mostly neutral observer for over 15 years now, and I realize the conflict predates my experience watching y'all by a great margin.
As to anyone ruining threads, and/or running anyone off the forum, my view is that AZBMike doesn't appear to have an issue with it, and the lack of moderation is proof of that. So it doesn't really matter what I think, cuz the conflicts from over, what, 30 years now, continue. If the folks that run the forum don't care to stop it, I guess I'll just mind my P's and Q's and enjoy what I can, and disregard the rest.
Yes. That is my understanding
Swerve is part of the game. Mostly when you use TOI, the ball is struck firmly, but swerve does come into play. On most shots the amount is so small as to be almost negligable.
Rolling shots in slowly, with center ball, over long distances is rarely a winning recipe, anyways. Should that eventuality come up, it's perfectly OK to do it. Even CJ said previously that he usually shoots combinations with center ball for instance.
It's a different way of playing, and I rather like it. When I first started playing I shot almost every cut shot with outside English and that's how many people play the game. CJ's approach is different and it can radically change your approach, at least on certain shots. It did for me, at least. Watching old matches with CJ, you can see how differently the cueball reacts to what you would expect on some shots. It's subtle sometimes, but if you are knowledgable, it's clear to see.
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This is like one of them mine fires that insist on burning.
Having thunk that, underground fires are pretty disturbing.
Having thunk that, underground fires are pretty disturbing.
Are you talking about zombie fires? That's scary as hell!This is like one of them mine fires that insist on burning.
Having thunk that, underground fires are pretty disturbing.
Yeah those.
I could never wrap my head around the TOI concept.....In one sentence he says we can't be accurate on striking center CB but then goes on to say hitting TOI allows us to remove the problem....If I can't be accurate at center CB...how am I all of a sudden accurate with TOI.....and how much is a "touch"
IMO....If you set up to center ball.......with a solid bridge....any minor un-intended BHE should negate the in-accuracy giving you a bigger margin of error than TOI....
What I CAN buy into (if we agree that a pool players stroke can't be 100% accurate) is a concept of setting up center CB and erring to a TOE (Touch of English) that helps pocket that particular shot's ball and/or a shot's shape.....vs one that may hurt the pocketing or shape....but that may not be TOI...in some cases it may be TOO.
Regarding the TOI concept my brain tends to lean toward my signature's UAS YT link........However..........His game is on a whole nother level though so...who knows.....perhaps my brain is just not able to comprehend it.
Perhaps it boils down to abstract vs linear thinkers.
IMO....If you set up to center ball.......with a solid bridge....any minor un-intended BHE should negate the in-accuracy giving you a bigger margin of error than TOI....
What I CAN buy into (if we agree that a pool players stroke can't be 100% accurate) is a concept of setting up center CB and erring to a TOE (Touch of English) that helps pocket that particular shot's ball and/or a shot's shape.....vs one that may hurt the pocketing or shape....but that may not be TOI...in some cases it may be TOO.
Regarding the TOI concept my brain tends to lean toward my signature's UAS YT link........However..........His game is on a whole nother level though so...who knows.....perhaps my brain is just not able to comprehend it.
Perhaps it boils down to abstract vs linear thinkers.
Please explain this more in detail. What exactly is forum protocol? Does it mean certain subjects have the approval of the perceived hierarchy regarding what can or can't be discussed?
What you don't care for is something I could care less about.
Maybe it could be less valid for sure. Could be that you know something I don't know but I think I do?
And why do you think that happened right after the "omniscient one" came in? Blame me but bow down in reverence to PJ?
Are you using it for spin or a way to integrate it into the aiming process like CJ? There is a difference.
Nothing wrong with fractions, contact points, or TOI. I'll bet you have no clue how to apply CTE to your game or how it's performed. If I'm wrong, please explain it and I'll say "by damn, you got it."
My take is if you aim dead center, you can err on either side. With some english, inside OR outside, (as you stated) you are using negligible spin but increasing the margin of error - both visually and actually.
LMAO! What I have knowledge in is something you have no knowledge of. What you "think" is knowledge are all misconceptions.
OK, gotcha. FOR ALL WHO ARE READING THIS FORUM WHETHER YOU ARE A MEMBER OR NOT, IF YOU ARE JUST LEARNING THE GAME SEE PAT JOHNSON FOR ALL OF YOUR TRAINING. IF YOU SEE THREADS AND POSTS ABOUT CTE OR TOI, STAY OUT
BECAUSE YOU DEFINITELY AREN'T READY FOR IT.
Whoa there partner. Shouldn't that be the other way around with you addressing him to just ignore my threads or posts?
I'm the bad guy because I started a thread about CJ and TOI that is automatically open season for bashing?
Giving a thumbs up isn't enough. Excellent post, observations, and understanding.