C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?

[bondsman]

Cash is not a problem, we start out counting it, then measuring it, then if we book a big winner we usually weigh it. The problem is where to store it where it won't disintegrate....may as well gamble with it, if not it's just worthless paper.

I have not seen this question asked of you. What do think would have happened if you had gone in to Hardtimes in Costa Mesa and ask Keith to play? Keith was always there and played anyone who came there giving most weight, including literally, King Kong. And did you play the other killers of that era like Sigel (last 2), Louie Roberts, Billy Ray Sudan (5 ball, and the great Tracey Joe? There were many others but to name a few. Had you reached that level when Keith was doing this?

 

[peteypooldude]

I have not seen this question asked of you. What do think would have happened if you had gone in to Hardtimes in Costa Mesa and ask Keith to play? Keith was always there and played anyone who came there giving most weight, including literally, King Kong. And did you play the other killers of that era like Sigel (last 2), Louie Roberts, Billy Ray Sudan (5 ball, and the great Tracey Joe? There were many others but to name a few. Had you reached that level when Keith was doing this?

You evidently have not been reading this thread

 

[bondsman]

You evidently have not been reading this thread

Evidently, I missed CJ's answer to how he felt he would have compared to Keith during Keith's prime. Since you have read the answer on this thread how do think CJ would have done? Or are they from different eras? There is an age difference.

 

[peteypooldude]

Evidently, I missed CJ's answer to how he felt he would have compared to Keith during Keith's prime. Since you have read the answer on this thread how do think CJ would have done? Or are they from different eras? There is an age difference.

They have matched before. They both played perfect. There's no skill level difference

 

[Kim Bye]

28 pages of bragging...
When is the match?

 

[peteypooldude]

28 pages of bragging...
When is the match?

I doubt there is one. Neither of the two started the thread so it's all hypothetical .
Merry Christmas Kim

 

[BeiberLvr]

There will be no match unless there is someone willing to pony up the cash. I really doubt that these two want to take money out of each others pockets.

But i believe they would not have a problem taking the cash from those who will pony up to watch two "has beens" go at it. Not using has beens in a negative way. They had their days. Who really wants to see this match.

Now, how about Cj or Keith vs Shane. Old guard vs the new. That would interesting, but only if they play with their own cash.

Take it a step further.

CJ/Keith vs Shane/Dechaine or Hall/Bergman

 

[CJ Wiley]

Mark Tadd in Las Vegas at the last tournament Louie Roberts attended

Keith is 7 years older than me, so when he was beating all the Cali. bar box champions I was 10-12.

I have played "King Kong," several times in tournaments, but he would never gamble with me. Billy Ray Sudan was a good bar table player, we played at 'BROWNS' right outside of Chattanooga Tn (where they filmed 'The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia) - we played for over 10 hours....it ended with me jumping the "mud ball" over an entire ball and drawing it back to break out a cluster....that straw broke Billy's back.

Last time I was in Hard Times was a few years ago. I gave Rob Saez the 8, then the 7 Ball.....we ended up breaking even on games. I believe the last one I played before Rob was some guy named Francisco Bustamante - we ended up breaking even after having him a set loser and up on the next set.....I'll never forget he lucked three balls in one game, then ran 3 racks in a row.....that was all I could tolerate at the time....we did play again though at another time.



It wasn't in the stars for Kieth and I to play in LA - During that time I did play Mark Tadd in Las Vegas at the last tournament Louie Roberts attended, here's a post that "FatBoy" wrote about seeing the match between Mark Tadd and myself.

I saw CJ play Mark Tadd at Cue Club in Vegas 2 8 ahead sets and CJ played perfect pool. He won both sets in less than 2 hours $10,000/set.this was in 91-92


That night nobody in the world could beat him. He made 4 of 4 jump shots and got shape on all 4, and those 4 times he needed to jump was damn near the only time he wasnt in perfect line. I wish that match could have been taped, there was 200+ people there, JA and I have talked about it. JA was there too, Cardone, and probably lots of other people from AZB. It was probably the strongest session of 9 ball I ever seen to this day.


So my point is this, CJ sees pool a certain way, anyone who has a nuclear gear like that-I cant argue with, I wishI could see what he sees. It aint "Luck". Its genius and I'll listen.

You were so "In the Zone" I'm not sure you knew where you were. It was amazing, even after I saw you try and talk to a few guys I was standing rite there and you were still not really there. It's hard to explain, but man what a great focus you had. No disrespect to Mark, I was living in Vegas at the time and he was playing real real good. He had zero chance, nobody could have beat you that night. That was the chatter on the rail. I seen lots of pool and to this day i havent seen a match that one sided between 2 great players. Believe me if Mark had a shot he would have shot back he was at the top of his game then too. the $ line as I recall was a pick 'em.

In the financial world there is a axiom "Never take financial advice from someone doing worse off than your doing". I dont take financial advice from people making very little money, i listen to people who make more than me. Now some of those people make so much more than me "I just dont understand what the hell they are talking about, derivatives, puts, calls and other stock market jargon".

Same for pool players, I'll listen to anyone who plays better than me, I seen what CJ can do. I sure as hell aint going to argue with him, even if I dont understand him cause its clear he knows piles more about pool than me. that aint luck.


And I hardly know him, i met him 2-3 times for 30 seconds in the past 20 something years. Why in the world anyone would come on here and argue with him is beyond me, telling him it's luck. yeah right he got lucky, so did efren (who would have needed the 5 that night and still got beat, yeah he played that good)




best
eric "FATBOY"
Las Vegas

I have not seen this question asked of you. What do think would have happened if you had gone in to Hardtimes in Costa Mesa and ask Keith to play? Keith was always there and played anyone who came there giving most weight, including literally, King Kong. And did you play the other killers of that era like Sigel (last 2), Louie Roberts, Billy Ray Sudan (5 ball, and the great Tracey Joe? There were many others but to name a few. Had you reached that level when Keith was doing this?

 

[CJ Wiley]

While you were fascinated by all the "bragging," you missed the part about us playing.:groucho:

28 pages of bragging...
When is the match?

 

[CJ Wiley]

doubles are fine in tennis, and ballroom dancing

Pocket Billiards is an individually competitive sport/game......doubles are fine in tennis, bars, and ballroom dancing, but not in serious pool gambling.

Take it a step further.

CJ/Keith vs Shane/Dechaine or Hall/Bergman

 

[punter]

That match with Tadd sounds like you were very impressive CJ. You gained the number one ranking around that time. Also, in that time frame, there was a very talented player named Tommy Sanders, in Beaumont/Port Arthur who would play anyone even for big money (Action Jackson was one of his stakehorses). Just wondering if you knew of him and why the two of you didn't match up?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Tommy also plays golf at a very high level and there may have been some conflict

I did know of Tommy Sanders, he was a force to recon with in his home town. There were some talk of us playing, although I don't recall it being "even"....I may not have wanted to give him "the last 2" on his home court, he reportedly played a championship speed.....players his speed would get the "wild 8" in Dallas, however, he never made it up to negotiate that game.

Tommy also plays golf at a very high level and there may have been some conflict that kept him from matching up with me....I'm sure he made much more gambling at golf.

There was another Sanders.....Jimmy Sanders that played really well, he beat me a set one time in Queen City Tx at the Wooden Indian.....I think I was around 19 at the time.

Brian Ashley was also good action back in this day, many players went to Waco to play him and didn't like the outcome. I know he and Reid Pierce played several times and Omaha John went down and finally beat him....but it was extremely tough.

Another pool player with a tremendous amount of heart is Jimmy Wetch. Jimmy and I played over a hundred hours in 4 different sessions. Back in those days some players didn't quit until you'd beaten, broken and busted them....sometimes a few times.

That match with Tadd sounds like you were very impressive CJ. You gained the number one ranking around that time. Also, in that time frame, there was a very talented player named Tommy Sanders, in Beaumont/Port Arthur who would play anyone even for big money (Action Jackson was one of his stakehorses). Just wondering if you knew of him and why the two of you didn't match up?

 

[Dave714]

Bryan Ashley was a name I heard coming up, he was 10 yrs older I guess. I thought he played out of Waco like myself. Surprised to here Temple Tx. He come down with some type of illness that slowed his career.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Pocket Billiards is an individually competitive sport/game......doubles are fine in tennis, bars, and ballroom dancing, but not in serious pool gambling.

If you're scared, just say you're scared

 

[ribdoner]

Bryan Ashley was a name I heard coming up, he was 10 yrs older I guess. I thought he played out of Waco like myself. Surprised to here Temple Tx. He come down with some type of illness that slowed his career.

GORDIE and JAMES C took a trip to N LTL Rock when "ON THE SNAP" did that "baron of the barbox" piece on BA to try him some in his home ( at the time) bar.

To make a long story short they got his, the rails and some of the towns cash to the tune of 17k +-.

 

[CJ Wiley]

My apologies, you're right, it was Waco, not Temple Tx.

My apologies, you're right, it was Waco, not Temple Tx. I went back and edited, I appreciate the input. Leroy and "Snake" also are accomplished players from Waco.

Bryan was an exceptional player, I hated to hear about him falling sick. For him to play heads up with guys like Omaha John and Steve Gumphreys was impressive. I think Country Calvin went down there and played him on the bar table too.....that would have been one heck of an offensive battle.

Bryan Ashley was a name I heard coming up, he was 10 yrs older I guess. I thought he played out of Waco like myself. Surprised to here Temple Tx. He come down with some type of illness that slowed his career.

 

[CJ Wiley]

If you're scared, just say you're scared

Sometimes doubles is appropriate.....just not in pool

 

[phil dade]

Doubles is joke in pool. I can not believe it is discussed as a serious challenge. It is not even good for spectatorship. What are you thinking? You would watch a mixed doubles game over "Oprah"?

 

[jay helfert]

My take on all this: Keith in his prime would beat CJ in his prime on a bar table imo. Only a Matlock or Hall could stand up to Keith on a small table and maybe Billy Johnson/Wade Crane. He was virtually unbeatable at Hard Times in Costa Mesa when he was 18-20 years old. He robbed champion after champion down there, giving weight to many of them. The six ball meant nothing to Keith. He wouldn't miss a ball (hard or easy) for hours on end.

On a 9' table it would have been a slug fest. Keith had this astonishing ability to make super hard shots look easy and difficult run-outs look like child's play. CJ played a more traditional game, running out more like a faster moving Buddy Hall. I think I would pick a circa 1990 CJ over a circa 1980 Keith on the big table, but it would be a battle, even harder than when CJ was pounding on Efren.

Meanwhile the absolute best big table player in the 90's was Parica. NO ONE wanted any part of him.

Let's just say this, in their respective primes both CJ and Keith were at the top of the heap, with only the very best players having any chance with them. Both could go anywhere and play anybody and be the favorite.

 

[Ken_4fun]

My take on all this: Keith in his prime would beat CJ in his prime on a bar table imo. Only a Matlock or Hall could stand up to Keith on a small table and maybe Billy Johnson/Wade Crane. He was virtually unbeatable at Hard Times in Costa Mesa when he was 18-20 years old. He robbed champion after champion down there, giving weight to many of them. The six ball meant nothing to Keith. He wouldn't miss a ball (hard or easy) for hours on end.

On a 9' table it would have been a slug fest. Keith had this astonishing ability to make super hard shots look easy and difficult run-outs look like child's play. CJ played a more traditional game, running out more like a faster moving Buddy Hall. I think I would pick a circa 1990 CJ over a circa 1980 Keith on the big table, but it would be a battle, even harder than when CJ was pounding on Efren.

Meanwhile the absolute best big table player in the 90's was Parica. NO ONE wanted any part of him.

Let's just say this, in their respective primes both CJ and Keith were at the top of the heap, with only the very best players having any chance with them. Both could go anywhere and play anybody and be the favorite.

Wasn't Johnnie Archer the "Player of the 90's"?

Jay did Parica match up with Archer?

Ken