Contact Point Aiming Illusion

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One thing that is overlooked in pool is THE CUE BALL IS THE TARGET...it's just aligned to the object ball or cushion (on kicks)....100% of the time on ANY SHOT I must hit a specific point on the cue ball to execute the shot....the object ball is used to line up AND to give me feedback on what I did right or wrong.....if it communicates that I executed the shot correctly and the results are what I want I'm fine.....it the results aren't reflecting I want or expect I MUST PRACTICE and calibrate my system/routine until the results are consistently positive.....this is broken down into the simplest explanation of what I perceive pocket billiards to be..so before getting into the more advanced concepts of body alignment,
position play and strategy, it's essential to develop a system to hit the cue ball precisely ...line up on the object ball:poke:aim at the cue ball;)

Man, this is waayy over my head. :confused:

I have never heard of this concept. I have always been totally focused on the OB.

I cant see a picture in my mind of what you are describing. :frown:

I hope I can catch on to this method.

Thanks

John
 

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Instead of aiming at the object ball, I have been using an alignment method. I pick out the contact point on the object ball as my reference or starting point. With this info, I use my alignment method and line up behind the cue ball.

In a way, I'm doing this now. But I haven't thought about "aiming" the cue ball. I just know it's in the right place and shoot. I'll try to apply this thought process.

Best,
Mike
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
One Pocket John says that he sees the OB and CB as disks - they look like disks.

In order to imagine the contact point on the OB that sends it to the pocket/target, one must imagine the OB as a sphere in order to imagine where the line from the pocket to the center of the OB and finally exits the side of the OB that you are looking at. Once you locate that spot, you can imagine the OB as a disk with the spot to the left or right of the center (straight in shot would be a spot in the center of the disk.

If you try to imagine the OB as a disk to find the contact point, it will always be in the center of the disk.

Alternatively, you can look at the top of the OB and see the line exiting the disk. Getting back to the shot from behind the CB, you can then see the spot (contact point) on the OB as a disk.

If you can imagine the same spot on the opposite side of the CB as a spot on the CB disk, for a cut on the OB to the right, all you have to do is aim the spot on the right side of the center on the OB disk to the spot on the left side of center on the OB. the tricky part is stroking your cue parallel to that spot to spot line.

I can see the simplicity of this description for aiming with that one caviat.



You can even use your stick to line up the shot:

View attachment 240443

Be well.

Haven't you described parallel aiming?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
But I haven't thought about "aiming" the cue ball. I just know it's in the right place and shoot. I'll try to apply this thought process.

It's true you must hit the cue ball precisely to produce desired shape.

It's also true that if you are deeply focused on the object ball, you can get on line for center ball in your stance, look down and be like, "Whoa, I'm going to hit this with two tips of bottom left "parallel" english," and still score the ball. Trust and confidence help as has been mentioned.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Everyone doesn't always see eye to eye.

Vision and perception are too complicated and personal to simplify into a "formula" that works for all people. The focus should be on results. Each person should find the head position and sighting technique that helps them create the most accurate cue tip contact point and aiming line.

Yes vision and perception are complicated, especially in pool where lots of people see these round spheres with different perspectives.

The first thing I think you have to do is align the entire body, which includes the feet, shoulders, head, eyes while standing erect. I f you can see the shot standing upright, you'll be ahead of most of the bottom aimers. That's why there is a lot of interest in the "modern aiming systems" popping up.

Many people do not have the experience or natural ability to get themselves into the perfect sight picture and some do not know what it looks like if you showed it to them. I know the latter comes from experience but if you've already hit what seems like a million balls, and you're still not running out on a regular basis, it might be time to try out some of these "modern aiming sytems".

I've used contact point to contact point aiming for most of my years and to be quite frank, I think it's taxing on my ability to concentrate. Pro One and Perfect Aim seem to have helped me the most in recent years, although I am a long ways from having a consistent, professional game. That may never happen but I know that I now have more fun pocketing balls and playing shape than I did before I started experimenting with different aiming systems.

Some people might feel like they are hurting their game by learning different aiming systems or using different equipment but that's not what has happened for me personally.

I don't argue that hitting lots of balls is important. I don't argue that getting used to your equipment is critical. That would be as silly as arguing that you should not invest your time in learning how others aim.

God forbid that you might discover a better way to aim than what you are currently using. :grin:
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is a good way to approach your pre shot routine..

Instead of aiming at the object ball, I have been using an alignment method. I pick out the contact point on the object ball as my reference or starting point. With this info, I use my alignment method and line up behind the cue ball.

In a way, I'm doing this now. But I haven't thought about "aiming" the cue ball. I just know it's in the right place and shoot. I'll try to apply this thought process.

Best,
Mike

This is a good way to approach your pre shot routine....may I suggest you try to line up one sixteenth of an inch to the inside of the ball and still go through straight "as if" it was the center.....try to feel the cue ball is over cutting the object ball slightly....don't change anything else, you are SO CLOSE it appears to me by your descriptions of what YOU are doing. :grin-square:
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
What about players that shoot by feel? What are their brains doing? Do they have a subconscious system? My point is that even if you consciously have no system to pocket balls, your brain is not guessing where to shoot the cue ball. It is a computer taking in all variables and from a reference or starting point, it comes up with an answer.

I'm not saying everybody uses an aiming system. Fahgedaboudit! I'd like to know what others think about their brain's method of lining up shots. By feel without an aiming system.

Best,
Mike

Someone, I can not remember who, did an interview / discussion with Jack Nicklaus about his great putting. Nicklaus said that he took his time & looked at everthing & walked all over the green to allow his mind to absorb all of the information that it could & he would never hit a putt until he was ready, meaning, fairly sure that his 'read' was correct.

I am a 'feel' player without a conscoius system. I feel that the shots that I do mis I mis because I did not allow my mind to gather enough info. I rush a bit assuming the shot but not giving my mind enought info to tell my body precisely how to execute the shot. Crap in crap out, so to speak.

I play both pool and golf. I play pool & putt fairly well. Making a difficult putt has much more involved in it than making a 'difficult' pool shot. The time we take is relative. More time can mean more info gathering for the mind.

I'm not saying play slow. I'm just saying give your mind a fair chance to gather the necessary info so it can tell your body precisely what it needs to do to execute the shot.

Just my long nickel's worth of 'crap'.
Rick
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Yep, we have a subconscious aiming system whether we like it or not. Doesn't matter if we are shooting pool or throwing paper into a trashcan, we are constantly making adjustments based on past experiences.

I shot for many years with no formal aiming system, I wasn't even aware of CTE and similar concepts at the time. I always just pictured the overlap of the balls being at the right thickness to make the ball go in the direction of the pocket. Since I was more analytical I knew about things like CIT, deflection, etc., but many good players then (and now even) didn't and just learned to adjust for those things through experience. Other people might have envisioned the ghost ball, contact point, etc.

Since I am very analytical, I've enjoyed learning about and using the aiming systems, it makes me feel like I'm "guessing" less on where to hit the ball, and I can treat a straight in 2 foot shot the same as a 60 degree backcut using the same approach and steps just a different starting alignment and/or pivot for the category of shot at hand. It has worked better for me than just pure subconscious aiming, but it takes conscious thought and practice and that can actually mask your natural ability to feel certain shots and feel lost if you can't use the system for a given shot. I've played long enough where I can get around that, similar to in 3 cushion where I'll use systems if I can but am willing and capable of going "off the grid" for those specialty shots that come up that just require feel.

I look at it like throwing an object at something, whether it be a baseball into a mitt, paper into a trashcan, etc. Assuming you have some level of coordination, how many times can you just look at something quickly and throw an object pretty precisely right to that location? But if you stand there and try to do it, or someone is betting you that you can't do it, you take too much time and try to be too perfect and end up talking yourself out of your natural ability and miss? For me that's the difference between conscious and unconscious aiming.

Scott

Scott,

Well Said!

I coached pitching at playground all star & midddle school levels. I have often had some take their eyes off of the target prior to the pitch & only re-focus on it at a time just prior to the delivery of the ball into the release point.

I did this for those that where too locked in, staring at the target & inhibiting their natural mind & body to just do it. Is that a NIKE advertisment? When they were staring at the mitt they were trying to force it & not just let it happen.

Again, You said it well.
Rick
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Does this include retraining when you miss a shot? Such as resetting the shot (if possible) and trying it after the correct adjustment? I've found this to be a huge factor in reinforcing the subconscious part of my game. It creates a lot of feedback and forces my brain to pay attention.

Best,
Mike

Mike,

I only do that when I know why I missed & I am fairly sure that I will make it if I shoot it again. I do not want to shoot it again, mis, & reinforce that, another mis. If I am not sure I would rather just let it go & get it out of my mind ASAP & simply 'blame' it on a lack of focus or 'i rushed it'. So, keep that in mind. If you are not sure maybe set it up the same but closer to help insure a make, or just let it go & chalk it up to something similiar to what I mentioned.

I hope this useful.
Rick
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I agree. It's doubt that kills your game and stroke.
I have doubt. It comes from missing shots.
I think a brain transplant might be necessary in my case.
I'll take any other. Even a trained ape's might be better in my case. :smile:

Shaky,

Ahhhh...................there's the rub. You think it is the brain. You're mistaken. It's the mind. I know some very intelligant people & some very learned people & they could probably never shoot pool well.

That might be your problem. You're brilliant! You're too inteligent!

Seriously, you are correct about doubt. In golf, a putting drill many pros do, the last thing they do, before going out to play is they pick out a putt that they know they can make & not mis & then they make it 10, 15, 20 times in a row, before they head to the first tee.

Maybe you should do something similiar & build confidence, at least in your stroke if nothing else. As you gain confidence pick a little harder shot. Do this in baby steps everyday & soon you'll be shooting 3 rail bank shots with confidence.

Just trying to be helpful, if I can. Good Luck, that too can be very helpful.
Rick
 
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vincett

Member
Here's a question for the players that aim by looking at the contact point. How is your mind compensating for the ball curvature? Since you will undercut the ball after so many degrees, how is your mind actually compensating? Is it using fractional aiming without you knowing it? How about ghost ball aiming?

If ever there was a head scratcher about the mental part of pool, this is it. Your mind doesn't just guess and cut the ball thinner. It's a biological computer that takes in visual information and figures out which direction you need to send the cue ball. All without you even being aware it's doing this. What system is it using?

Best,
Mike
Since getting back to the game after 20 some years. I can say that this is where I am stuck at and trying to find out a way. I can aim and hit the shot so very close to 65-70 degree from the CP. That means the OB is barely moving when I cut it! However the term aiming at CP is uncertain in my mind still

When I play for fun, I can pocket OB easier since my mind popped the objective (aiming at the CP), I don’t really look at the cue stick or the tip, or which side of the tip is pointing where. I guess it is all my kind guessing work based on the balls stance. I said the balls stance because the triangular trajectories of pocket-OB and pocket-Cueball created the stance. My body just take a stance by itself, and I look directly at the CP. Then it just goes in

However, here is the problem, when approaching a 5-15 degree cut differences. The OB can miss a 1/4 of a Diamond or so. Especially when approaching from a corner pocket to a corner pocket. From all the videos I have seen. It was caused by the balls stance being the same, but the margin of errors are different. I figured that it is the distances between the Cueball - OB that make the shot different. So, the assumption that I have here without specific calculation is that any slight variant of a cut from 10-15 degree. I have problem with overcutting or under cutting it.

Now, when I try to use the ghost ball system, I have a very hard time to adapt. I don’t think the pro use the ghost ball system at all. Because it complicates many things due to the differences, and one of it is the balls curvatures and the “offset” distances between the OB-CB. I said the offset is because if at 0 degree references or a dead on CP, or straight shot, the offset is 0 between CB-OB. Now, if the 30 degree shot, which if using ghost ball is a 1/2 ball in reference to also combining fractional system, the OB contact point will be at 1/4 of it. Ghost ball is for aiming toward it, cue tip pointing at the edge of the OB .

Carrying this onto the center to edge system, this 1/4 is actually 1/2. Because we can only count center to the edges of the OB.

So then, if the offset between the OB and CB is at precisely 1 ghost ball a part, the undercutting or over cutting don’t happen. This is why the infinite variations between the Cueball - Object ball offset Plus the Balls stance can cause confusion

Combining these 2 systems together, a 30 degree cut is almost impossible to miss if the shot has an Object ball anywhere from half the table toward the pocket. Because using the cue stick aiming, it is always aimed at the edges of the OB. I now understand that the ghost ball can “Create a Ghost Balls stance”. Because the distance from the CB to the OB can infinitely varied, together with the distance from the Pocket to the OB can also be infinitely varied. The offset and balls stances can also generate an infinite “ghost balls stances” where the “ghost balls hitting the CP at”.

Now, we have just generated an extra infinitely variation into the game. So, in order for me to figure out the “Exact ghost ball stance” in this system. I have to throw in one more variation, and that is the References Plane. I call it a references Plane because it is always perpendicular to the 0 center dead on hit between CB-OB. Now, in order for me to spot and see all the variations of what I just generated, “Ghostball-Contact point balls stance”, it needs References plane which is looking perpendicular toward the center of the CB, and reconfirming the CP lines, I have to walk like 3/4 of the table with all the calculations, memorizations and cue stick preparation before I can take a shooting stance

See how complicated everything gets already at this point ? This is where I have problem currently, especially playing with wager and bet. My friends said that is caused by “weak mentality”. It can only be improved upon millions of games before I can get a stronger mentality….or joking with … paying a few hundred K as tuition and I will get better!!!! I refuse these ideas. After all, I have some fundamentals with me and I also know how to use English or straight shot and so on

Then again, what exactly am I aiming at ? When my eyes are looking at the CP and the pocket target is a short distance, I don’t miss much, because at short distance. My sights, my mind, can clearly see all the variations at once. Eliminating the walking over 3/4 tables with 5-6 seconds delayed in between. We all knows that human short term memories if precisely constructed mathematically and imaginaries can only last for a couple seconds. Together with the fact that the longer the distance toward the ghost ball, the center of the ghost ball is smaller. The spaces between the edge of the OB and the cue Stick tip relation is also shorter by the according size of the OB visualized. Now, this is not to taken into account all the other physical variations such as Speed, and Throw, squirt, or the stroke marginal errors. I know for a fact that at medium soft hit, I have no problem with my stroke, after practicing a straight stroke over the longest rail over and over. But if anything harder than that, I will have problem.

Now, in order for all of this complexities to be less complex is to basically try to eliminate the “ghost ball” out of the equation. This is exactly what all the “pros” do. They don’t just walk over 3/4 of the table when the OB is at the long distance call. They actually preparing their pre stroke standing, either by stroking their stick, or standing with their center of vision and cue stick lining up , and then lower into the shot itself.

So then, my questions popped again, what exactly is it that they are aiming at ?

It turns out that they actually is using “fractional system” By clearly visualizing the slices of the object ball, and the cut angles, they get the contact point figured. Then they overlap the CB shadow right onto that CP by the edge of the CB overlapping the exact point of the CP. They don’t pay attention to their cue stick, whether it is left side of the stick or right side of the stick or the center of it or where it is “Pointing at”. They only do this when they need to do a Kick shot. Other pros player also compensate for the cut stances variations by slightly using English. This will minimize the misses an additional margin.

Finally, puzzled all of this together, it comes down to a point that, I do really, need to hit, a million balls in order to improve. Because with all the understanding of all the aiming systems, I can practice solo, by reconfirming my shot using all of them. Executing a shot can be as long as 5 minute preparation. But at least with all of those, I know exactly what I am doing, and I can say for sure is that when someone say “Aiming at the CP”, they literally meant “Eyeing at the CP” and let their body, brains, working out the rest of it. Where as, “the rest of it” can only come after hitting a million balls….lol
 
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vincett

Member
Since getting back to the game after 20 some years. I can say that this is where I am stuck at and trying to find out a way. I can aim and hit the shot so very close to 65-70 degree from the CP. That means the OB is barely moving when I cut it! However the term aiming at CP is uncertain in my mind still

When I play for fun, I can pocket OB easier since my mind popped the objective (aiming at the CP), I don’t really look at the cue stick or the tip, or which side of the tip is pointing where. I guess it is all my kind guessing work based on the balls stance. I said the balls stance because the triangular trajectories of pocket-OB and pocket-Cueball created the stance. My body just take a stance by itself, and I look directly at the CP. Then it just goes in

However, here is the problem, when approaching a 5-15 degree cut differences. The OB can miss a 1/4 of a Diamond or so. Especially when approaching from a corner pocket to a corner pocket. From all the videos I have seen. It was caused by the balls stance being the same, but the margin of errors are different. I figured that it is the distances between the Cueball - OB that make the shot different. So, the assumption that I have here without specific calculation is that any slight variant of a cut from 10-15 degree. I have problem with overcutting or under cutting it.

Now, when I try to use the ghost ball system, I have a very hard time to adapt. I don’t think the pro use the ghost ball system at all. Because it complicates many things due to the differences, and one of it is the balls curvatures and the “offset” distances between the OB-CB. I said the offset is because if at 0 degree references or a dead on CP, or straight shot, the offset is 0 between CB-OB. Now, if the 30 degree shot, which if using ghost ball is a 1/2 ball in reference to also combining fractional system, the OB contact point will be at 1/4 of it. Ghost ball is for aiming toward it, cue tip pointing at the edge of the OB .

Carrying this onto the center to edge system, this 1/4 is actually 1/2. Because we can only count center to the edges of the OB.

So then, if the offset between the OB and CB is at precisely 1 ghost ball a part, the undercutting or over cutting don’t happen. This is why the infinite variations between the Cueball - Object ball offset Plus the Balls stance can cause confusion

Combining these 2 systems together, a 30 degree cut is almost impossible to miss if the shot has an Object ball anywhere from half the table toward the pocket. Because using the cue stick aiming, it is always aimed at the edges of the OB. I now understand that the ghost ball can “Create a Ghost Balls stance”. Because the distance from the CB to the OB can infinitely varied, together with the distance from the Pocket to the OB can also be infinitely varied. The offset and balls stances can also generate an infinite “ghost balls stances” where the “ghost balls hitting the CP at”.

Now, we have just generated an extra infinitely variation into the game. So, in order for me to figure out the “Exact ghost ball stance” in this system. I have to throw in one more variation, and that is the References Plane. I call it a references Plane because it is always perpendicular to the 0 center dead on hit between CB-OB. Now, in order for me to spot and see all the variations of what I just generated, “Ghostball-Contact point balls stance”, it needs References plane which is looking perpendicular toward the center of the CB, and reconfirming the CP lines, I have to walk like 3/4 of the table with all the calculations, memorizations and cue stick preparation before I can take a shooting stance

See how complicated everything gets already at this point ? This is where I have problem currently, especially playing with wager and bet. My friends said that is caused by “weak mentality”. It can only be improved upon millions of games before I can get a stronger mentality….or joking with … paying a few hundred K as tuition and I will get better!!!! I refuse these ideas. After all, I have some fundamentals with me and I also know how to use English or straight shot and so on

Then again, what exactly am I aiming at ? When my eyes are looking at the CP and the pocket target is a short distance, I don’t miss much, because at short distance. My sights, my mind, can clearly see all the variations at once. Eliminating the walking over 3/4 tables with 5-6 seconds delayed in between. We all knows that human short term memories if precisely constructed mathematically and imaginaries can only last for a couple seconds. Together with the fact that the longer the distance toward the ghost ball, the center of the ghost ball is smaller. The spaces between the edge of the OB and the cue Stick tip relation is also shorter by the according size of the OB visualized. Now, this is not to taken into account all the other physical variations such as Speed, and Throw, squirt, or the stroke marginal errors. I know for a fact that at medium soft hit, I have no problem with my stroke, after practicing a straight stroke over the longest rail over and over. But if anything harder than that, I will have problem.

Now, in order for all of this complexities to be less complex is to basically try to eliminate the “ghost ball” out of the equation. This is exactly what all the “pros” do. They don’t just walk over 3/4 of the table when the OB is at the long distance call. They actually preparing their pre stroke standing, either by stroking their stick, or standing with their center of vision and cue stick lining up , and then lower into the shot itself.

So then, my questions popped again, what exactly is it that they are aiming at ?

It turns out that they actually is using “fractional system” By clearly visualizing the slices of the object ball, and the cut angles, they get the contact point figured. Then they overlap the CB shadow right onto that CP by the edge of the CB overlapping the exact point of the CP. They don’t pay attention to their cue stick, whether it is left side of the stick or right side of the stick or the center of it or where it is “Pointing at”. They only do this when they need to do a Kick shot. Other pros player also compensate for the cut stances variations by slightly using English. This will minimize the misses an additional margin.

Finally, puzzled all of this together, it comes down to a point that, I do really, need to hit, a million balls in order to improve. Because with all the understanding of all the aiming systems, I can practice solo, by reconfirming my shot using all of them. Executing a shot can be as long as 5 minute preparation. But at least with all of those, I know exactly what I am doing, and I can say for sure is that when someone say “Aiming at the CP”, they literally meant “Eyeing at the CP” and let their body, brains, working out the rest of it. Where as, “the rest of it” can only come after hitting a million balls….lol
Additionally, I just figured that in order to shorten the hitting 1 million balls drills. I can accelerate it by 3 combinations. It gets boring, but if you can keep it up.

1/ Tossing all the balls out onto the table, and then speed running after all of the balls hitting directly into the pockets, any pocket, log down my timer. The faster is the better. Keep doing it over and over. This is to generate and visualize the CP better

2/ Practicing thin cut to both sides of the object ball by hitting with the center of it and together with not paying attention at the cue tip, just cutting it, over and over. Thin cut day is when I try to hitting the OB as thin as possible, of course the 65-70 degree cuts happen when the cueball has preserved most of it inertia by 85-90 %. I make sure that I can carry out at least 7/10 thin shot that qualify. The more consistent is the better and the faster is the better. This is to familiarize myself with the overlapping shadows of one ball to another.

** this drill is the hardest ** because my unconsciousness just compensate for the thin shot automatically with English applied onto the CB. I have to make sure by looking at it Twice and I do get better and better by cutting with center cue ball Overtime

3/ practicing Dead on Strike where the CB sends the OB toward a straight direction, the straighter is the better. This is to have the access to the full on reference 0 degree strike. I alternate all 3 of these sessions randomly

All of them combined, my mind, body, eyes, can automatically carry out shots by themselves just like riding a bicycle. They become muscles reflex. I then think less of the cutting angle, the fraction of the OB I need to cut….etc

After a couple weeks, I get more confidences in my ability to pocket stuff and I can tell you a sure thing is that…. Aiming at the CP is just literally Staring at it.

These findings helped me a lot. I hope it helps you too!!! Anyways, back to practicing
 
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vincett

Member
One more thing to note is that once you get all of those practices drill done over and over for matter of months. You can also automatically work it all out like the professional do.

But the funniest thing is that, once your mind figured it out, and you just point to shoot. You will see that your cue tip will not always be staying in the center of the cueball. Unlike other people is calling it, Dead center system. It is not literally that. I find myself unconsciously having the cue tip about 1/6 or sometime 2/6 off and away from the Dead center of the cueball

Some people calling me that my mind is automatically compensating. Yes, and so is all the professional, and so is all the hitting one million balls saying and on and on and on. You can see all of those pro videos on YouTube. Pay attention at their cu tip orientation on odd angle shoots

It turns out that the 10-15 degree cutting I am always missing by under or over cutting is compensating by the English on the Cue-Ball. For example a half table length cutting by 15 degree. This is the easiest to miss. Because don’t matter what you do, as long as you keeping the cuTip at the dead center, you will miss it due to the curvature of the balls.

Because of this, I then realized that I compensate this with my cueball and the tip, even when I don’t pay attention at the cue tip, and unconsciously so. The physics behind it is that the most cut angle anyone can do is 75 degrees. It is virtually impossible, because the inertial on the cue ball is like 90% preserved and the OB isn’t moving much anyways. Therefore, a margin of variations can be taking into account as follow.

The widest opening of the pocket shadowing onto the OB is always 45 degrees at the narrowest going from straight longest rails. And right into the middle of the table as an 60 degrees or so. With 60 degrees, we can fit 1-1/2 ball in sizes. That means 60:1.5 is 40 degree. This is at the most of it

Ruling out by 75 VS 40 degree, we have a 35 degrees differences. This is always the foundation of all of the half ball cut. Therefore, we can splice the ball into halves once more. Then we get 4 sections of the OB to hit with.

*** now, depends on the cue tip curvature or some shape, and the sizes ***. The cueball can also be spliced up to 6 slices. Now we then have 75:6. Isn’t that a 12 degree differences ? I said 6 because it is actually 8. But since we only utilize half of the CB at all time. This can become an 4 slices or so counting away from the Center to either side as shown in the practice ball picture. Each of those Dot is approximately a 12-15 degree compensation

This is exactly where my subconscious is always aiming with when compensating. This will stand true for even narrower shot of 5 degrees as well

It also correlate toward the 3 point systems by one of the fractional aiming system.

Please take it with a grain of salt as it helps for me. I don’t have much more knowledge than that to improve further

*Notes*. Once the compensation is taking place. The cue tip is pointing toward the CP but not exactly directly at the CP either. Because moving the front aiming by the cue tip is considered front hand English. It depends by the distances between OB-CB. The tip can be pointing at a nudge away from the CP. Once my body is just reflexing, all of these happened unconsciously like riding a bike. I just let it happen.

What is most important to me is that my mentality is stronger from all the 3 practice drill as I pointed out above. As long as I know for sure thing that I can always hit dead on at 0 degree references, and cutting close to 65 degrees. I am more confident. Whenever I doubted myself during a huge wager on a money shot. I always start taking steps by steps from all I remembered.

1/ using Diamond system to figure out the exact cut angle

2/ staring and confidently try aiming with my stick for 0 reference line

3/ I will then apply Ghost ball aiming or compensating fractional aiming accordingly. I know for a fact that I can make almost 70% of the cut shot of 65 degrees/35 degrees and 0 degree. Anything in between this, I will then stand up, take a second analyzation, and switch into the compensating fractional aiming system. The 30-35 degree is easily measured with peace sign (index and middle finger with the middle on the edge of the OB and index heading toward that direction is 35 degrees)

Since then, my game has vastly improved at least I don’t lose as much as I used to. Whenever I miss the shots, it is mostly because of odd angles as the opponent balls are blocking the view or so, which eliminates most of the easy shots that I can make. That’s my weakness CB drives controls and odd angles. I can play against the player that can barely pocket their OB but having all of their 7 Balls blocking the pockets….with the rules that my friends play by, the Chinese 8 balls, scratching the CB with only 8 on the table is a lost…I lose most of the time this way. I learned to take it slow against players that strategically laying out their OB to block the pockets by replacing them with mine rather than pocketing it.

This makes Pool games such a fun sports 😆 once you make it less complicated
IMG_2052.jpeg
 
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dquarasr

Registered
Wow, Vincett, that’s a lot of words!

A couple of questions: what is your skill level?

How is your stroke delivery? Asked another way, how good are you at the Mighty X drill? Is it possible your misses are stroke related and not aiming problems?
 
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vincett

Member
Wow, Vincent, that’s a lot of words!

A couple of questions: what is your skill level?

How is your stroke delivery? Asked another way, how good are you at the Mighty X drill? Is it possible your misses are stroke related and not aiming problems?
My stroke delivery accuracy is about 85-90% accuracy. It depends on the distances and the power behind it. My problems started out with the aiming confusion, eyes and sight coordination, rather than stroke delivery. I lose my accuracy on delivering the stroke, when and only where I am confused, by the uncertainty, of where it to “Aim” to and forward to.

How do I know my stroke delivery is good ? When I do 0 degree reference dead on strike practice. My OB mostly run stray from the straight line only 2/10 and 8/10 it goes very straight. These 2 shots mostly stray a bit is whenever up ahead, there is a pocket…my mind automatically compensate. This is why doing all the 3 above methods are critical

Also with the practicing drills I figured and posted above with cut angles. They are helping out a lot. Just so long as I can cut 65-70 degree angle with the intentional Dead center cueball, together with Dead center cueball on a 0 degree dead on strike. Then I don’t worry about my stroke delivery.

My skill levels started at Newbies for the first month as I was very confused as of what and where is to aim for. I know my plain stroke is straight when I practice dead on center to rail shot is returning on the spot. But my OB, my CP, are all over the places since I didn’t exactly know when and where and or how is to do it. Doing what exactly ? Pocketing the OB of course, then why can’t I make it ? Because I didn’t know where is to aim with or for.

Now my level is about between Beginner to Medium level as I just started of grasping all the concepts and put it into a solid foundation as I posted above. I can make at least 2-3 balls a turn. And I can finish the table in about 3-4 turns most of the time. What I need to improve upon is the placement of the Cue Ball by English and the Natural Angle of the Balls stances VS the pocket

Since we are talking about stroke delivery here. I mentioned previously that I had a friend who is so naturally talented and he can strike with any stances, hand behind his back, one handed, or whatever. The key is the swing from back and to forth of the back hand. Just as long as I pre-stroke onto the CB with a steady plane. It doesn’t matter if my elbow is swinging outward or in toward my hip or even extended into the mid table (at this moment the field of vision is very different and the new center of vision will be needed, but I found it is easier to judge from the tallest point of the balls CB-OB and slices them fractionally accordingly.

The key is to keep it from swinging or unwanted dropping when delivery from back and to forth strike. The most important thing is about your wrist and shoulder. They have to be locked in with only the elbow moving freely. The elbow, shoulder, fore arm and wrist are all have to be on a straight plane together with the line of action. The line of action is very important. It takes practice because different people have different joins and muscle groups. One can choose to drop the shoulder a bit on a smooth motion because the wrist is locked. One can also choose to relax the grip and have a harmony connection between dropping both the wrist and shoulder joins together. Most of the pros and videos from online is about dropping the shoulder accordingly and not the wrist. When I say dropping, it is a visual dropping that you can see , but it is specifically a rotation of the joins since we have 3 joins (wrist-elbow-shoulder) and they are all coiled up in order to delivery a very straight line (stroke). They all have to move in harmony.

The next most important thing is that the stroke delivery also have 2 planes to stray away from. Normally it is swinging left to right on a horizontal plane and that is where a lot of new players miss, bad stroke delivery. What other people don’t describe much or I have seen being described much is the vertical plane variations. That mean your cue is straight on that center and horizon plane of the CB , you strike it very straight, however the tip make the contact at the higher or lower than wanted intention. This is the next brick in a foundation to follow by. Once you have got all of these in motion. You will have 90% confident in your strike delivery or more

I also have other friends who is very cynical about their shoulder and elbow, who initially criticized me for my elbow positions and shoulder. However, they can’t explain why my talented other friend can do all that and keep winning the game, especially where the extension bridge are forbidden . After all, it doesn’t matter what stances you are using. It only matters about the technicality behind it

Assuming you have got all your aiming prioritized.

1/ 3 joins on the same planes do not move or droop away. You can confirm by pre strike back and forth before execution. I recommend this, and all the pros use it. Don’t appear to be cool by stepping down, aiming , draw and shoot.

2/ making sure and always prioritize your vertical delivery. Make sure the tip stay at the exact Height of delivery

Doing all the 3 practice drills above will help with everything. But also do yourself a favor, try and learn all the calculations and placement behind the physical and technical of the game. They consist of

1/ Aiming: Fractional, ghost ball
2/ Angles: Dead on, 35 and 65
3/ Diamond system. To make sure the angle you figured out is correct. You can learn to figure out from the references of #2 and correlate it to your fingers. Thumb and index straight out is 90 and index to middle is 35.

So half of the index-middle is 15 degree approximately.

As mentioned above. I did have a lot of uncertainty as to where what how to carry out my objective, my stroke delivery wandering off by itself. IMO, unless you are a pro level where your mind just “aim automatically” as where the pros keep saying

Aiming is easy , stroke delivery is important

No
, aiming is not easy, and when aiming isn’t found on a solid understanding of the systems to carrying out the objectives, whether you are hiding your balls, or running away from a certain spots or pocketing. Your stroke delivery will and always in a 100% certainty to wander off. This is where you would be calling out your stroke delivery for being “Bad”. But in reality, it doesn’t have to be. It is the Aiming itself.


Why am I so certain ? Because your mind will always compensate unconsciously like riding a bike . You don't just call out because you didn’t sit straight up, so you can not ride…. Nah, you have to lean into the curve for turn, and exactly how much ? It varies by the tires, the speed, the weight of the bike and the road conditions. But your mind can automatically compensate all that. What important is you have to keep your eyes on where you want to go

The same thing as in pool. Your mind compensate, you have to keep your eyes on the CP. But how do you make sure of everything ? By understanding all the aiming and it objectives
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
My stroke delivery accuracy is about 85-90% accuracy. It depends on the distances and the power behind it. My problems started out with the aiming confusion, eyes and sight coordination, rather than stroke delivery. I lose my accuracy on delivering the stroke, when and only where I am confused, by the uncertainty, of where it to “Aim” to and forward to.

How do I know my stroke delivery is good ? When I do 0 degree reference dead on strike practice. My OB mostly run stray from the straight line only 2/10 and 8/10 it goes very straight. These 2 shots mostly stray a bit is whenever up ahead, there is a pocket…my mind automatically compensate. This is why doing all the 3 above methods are critical

Also with the practicing drills I figured and posted above with cut angles. They are helping out a lot. Just so long as I can cut 65-70 degree angle with the intentional Dead center cueball, together with Dead center cueball on a 0 degree dead on strike. Then I don’t worry about my stroke delivery.

My skill levels started at Newbies for the first month as I was very confused as of what and where is to aim for. I know my plain stroke is straight when I practice dead on center to rail shot is returning on the spot. But my OB, my CP, are all over the places since I didn’t exactly know when and where and or how is to do it. Doing what exactly ? Pocketing the OB of course, then why can’t I make it ? Because I didn’t know where is to aim with or for.

Now my level is about between Beginner to Medium level as I just started of grasping all the concepts and put it into a solid foundation as I posted above. I can make at least 2-3 balls a turn. And I can finish the table in about 3-4 turns most of the time. What I need to improve upon is the placement of the Cue Ball by English and the Natural Angle of the Balls stances VS the pocket

Since we are talking about stroke delivery here. I mentioned previously that I had a friend who is so naturally talented and he can strike with any stances, hand behind his back, one handed, or whatever. The key is the swing from back and to forth of the back hand. Just as long as I pre-stroke onto the CB with a steady plane. It doesn’t matter if my elbow is swinging outward or in toward my hip or even extended into the mid table (at this moment the field of vision is very different and the new center of vision will be needed, but I found it is easier to judge from the tallest point of the balls CB-OB and slices them fractionally accordingly.

The key is to keep it from swinging or unwanted dropping when delivery from back and to forth strike. The most important thing is about your wrist and shoulder. They have to be locked in with only the elbow moving freely. The elbow, shoulder, fore arm and wrist are all have to be on a straight plane together with the line of action. The line of action is very important. It takes practice because different people have different joins and muscle groups. One can choose to drop the shoulder a bit on a smooth motion because the wrist is locked. One can also choose to relax the grip and have a harmony connection between dropping both the wrist and shoulder joins together. Most of the pros and videos from online is about dropping the shoulder accordingly and not the wrist. When I say dropping, it is a visual dropping that you can see , but it is specifically a rotation of the joins since we have 3 joins (wrist-elbow-shoulder) and they are all coiled up in order to delivery a very straight line (stroke). They all have to move in harmony.

The next most important thing is that the stroke delivery also have 2 planes to stray away from. Normally it is swinging left to right on a horizontal plane and that is where a lot of new players miss, bad stroke delivery. What other people don’t describe much or I have seen being described much is the vertical plane variations. That mean your cue is straight on that center and horizon plane of the CB , you strike it very straight, however the tip make the contact at the higher or lower than wanted intention. This is the next brick in a foundation to follow by. Once you have got all of these in motion. You will have 90% confident in your strike delivery or more

I also have other friends who is very cynical about their shoulder and elbow, who initially criticized me for my elbow positions and shoulder. However, they can’t explain why my talented other friend can do all that and keep winning the game, especially where the extension bridge are forbidden . After all, it doesn’t matter what stances you are using. It only matters about the technicality behind it

Assuming you have got all your aiming prioritized.

1/ 3 joins on the same planes do not move or droop away. You can confirm by pre strike back and forth before execution. I recommend this, and all the pros use it. Don’t appear to be cool by stepping down, aiming , draw and shoot.

2/ making sure and always prioritize your vertical delivery. Make sure the tip stay at the exact Height of delivery

Doing all the 3 practice drills above will help with everything. But also do yourself a favor, try and learn all the calculations and placement behind the physical and technical of the game. They consist of

1/ Aiming: Fractional, ghost ball
2/ Angles: Dead on, 35 and 65
3/ Diamond system. To make sure the angle you figured out is correct. You can learn to figure out from the references of #2 and correlate it to your fingers. Thumb and index straight out is 90 and index to middle is 35.

So half of the index-middle is 15 degree approximately.

As mentioned above. I did have a lot of uncertainty as to where what how to carry out my objective, my stroke delivery wandering off by itself. IMO, unless you are a pro level where your mind just “aim automatically” as where the pros keep saying

Aiming is easy , stroke delivery is important

No
, aiming is not easy, and when aiming isn’t found on a solid understanding of the systems to carrying out the objectives, whether you are hiding your balls, or running away from a certain spots. Your stroke delivery will and always in a 100% certainty to wander off. This is where you would be calling out your stroke delivery for being “Bad”. But in reality, it doesn’t have to be. It is the Aiming itself.

Why am I so certain ? Because your mind will always compensate unconsciously like riding a bike . You don't just call out because you didn’t sit straight up, so you can not ride…. Nah, you have to lean into the curve for turn, and exactly how much ? It varies by the tires, the speed, the weight of the bike and the road conditions. But your mind can automatically compensate all that. What important is you have to keep your eyes on where you want to go

The same thing as in pool. Your mind compensate, you have to keep your eyes on the CP. But how do you make sure of everything ? By understanding all the aiming and it objectives
A bit of advice: few (if any) will read such long posts.

pj
chgo
 

vincett

Member
Wow, Vincent, that’s a lot of words!

A couple of questions: what is your skill level?

How is your stroke delivery? Asked another way, how good are you at the Mighty X drill? Is it possible your misses are stroke related and not aiming problems?
Short answer
Medium level
85% accuracy

I don’t use those drills. I found that since I didn’t have a good “Aiming foundation” my stroke delivery half wanting to deliver a strike and half wanting to compromise, and I doubt myself.

Even when practicing, I don’t do pocket drills. I didn’t understand the aiming

It is with certain that 20% of my stroke delivery is bad and 80% of it is good when I do not drills and pocket as an objective.

So, is it aiming or stroke delivery ? For myself, it is the aiming system. Like riding a bike, don’t know where to look to when turning, can cause a crash. For example, looking into the turn and not outside of it when turning. It is the visual, not the hands, you know that you turn the hand bar into the curve but you look out of the turn and you crash. Because your mind will start to doubt itself

The same thing here. My aiming was weak, I didn’t grasp all the foundations behind it. So my stroke delivery is bad
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Short answer
Medium level
85% accuracy
....
I think for most people here, that means nothing.

What percentage of spot shots do you make on a 9-foot table. Specifically, how many out of 30 tries?

Have you worked with an instructor?
 
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vincett

Member
I think for most people here, that means nothing.

What percentage of spot shots do you make on a 9-foot table. Specifically, how many out of 30 tries?

Have you worked with an instructor?
I have not worked with an instructor. All of the videos I have seen is not useful. At least those that says aiming is not important, it is the strike delivery. I was asked if it was my strike delivery that isn’t accurate. So I responded that my strike delivery is 85% accurate as 8-9 shot rails to rails on 9’ table returning on spot.

I have not challenged myself with spot shot. Because I didn’t know what / how / where is to aim for.

It is most importantly for me to work out my cut 30 and 65 degree and 0 degree more than spot shot atm. Because I still am messed up with aiming
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Wow, Vincent, that’s a lot of words!

A couple of questions: what is your skill level?

How is your stroke delivery? Asked another way, how good are you at the Mighty X drill? Is it possible your misses are stroke related and not aiming problems?
you had to ask?
😂
😂😂😂
 
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