Do you favor OPEN Play Tournaments, or Handicapped Tournaments

[CocoboloCowboy]

Open tournaments all the way. We have the only sport/game where you can go head to head with the best in the world for $100 entry fee. Why wouldn't anyone interested in improving their game do it?

I am so glad you post what you did above, please explain to me how it would improve my personal game to say pay a $100.00 Entry Fee, and Draw say Johnny Archer in a Race to 9 Games in say 9 Ball, and have Johnny beat me 9 ZIP. Think all i would do is be contributing to the Match Purse. (aka prize fund)

Sorry this make as much sense to me as going out to Turf Paradise (our local Horse Race Track) Betting $100.00 to win on a Clydesdale from the Budweisher Team, verses a Quarter Horse in a 1/4 mile race.

Think I could pick the winner of that Horse Race before the starting gate opened if both Horses stay on their feet..

 

[Race2-9]

cocobolocowboy question

I have a question for you! Why don't you PRACTICE like the rest of us have done over the years. Put in the INVESTMENT of an entry fee to start to learn how well you have improved against better players rather than wanting something given to you. I have yet to see a handicapped tornament that had realistic handicaps. JMHO

 

[Phidget]

I prefer open tourneys. I am one of the better players in my house-league but id rather enter am open event. Case in point: I played a handicapped tourney at my local hall and gave up so much weight in a race to 3 that he slopped a win over me. Dont even get me started on short race events.
On the other hand, I entered the early bird tourney for $25 this past weekend and had 3 world class players I got to talk to and watch (while playing, not while being a rail bird). Worth every cent imo. Between the heat and the nerves I didnt shoot well, so i learned ALOT. If you dont try, you wont ever get there.

Overall, I don't mind losing to people who are better. That is how you get better. I learn more in my 2 losses (and warmups with top players) from that single event than i learned in the last 6 months playing bangers at my local hall.

 

[Milo]

Both formats have their pros and cons

Personally, I prefer open events. I usuall play in 1 or 2 a year, and am usually out in 2 (in the beginning) But I have done well at times in the past 5 yrs or so. (well for me is winning 2 or 3 matches)
I have really donated year after year.(I consider it a pool lesson and I have learned quite a bit over the years) I get so amped up. The guys make me play my best!!!! Either I play my best or I lose verY quickly. Its like drugs to me. It gets my adrenaline going for sure. I LOVE IT!!!!!
I remember one year I stayed on the A side til sunday!!!! Boy, was that a great feeling of accomplishment!!!!
But all in all, if you want to promote the sport, IMO, you have to give all the players a chance to do well in the tournament. Even if the tournament is handicapped, the lesser player is still going to learn a tremendous amount, and at the same time feel like its an even playing field.

 

[Russ Chewning]

But the one advantage to a Handicapping System it give NEW, or Player with Less Skill the ability to compete on a leveler playing field, and do more than justloose.

If a handicapping system or rating system like we have in place in AZ is run properly, it give player a place to start depending on their skill, a place to shoot for, and still put some money in their pockets while in the lessor skill levels.

I wonder in how many places where there is no handicapping system in place to give the players with lessor skill level a chance to finish in the money.

How many potential long term pool players the life blood of the game have given up as all they see is the out go of Moines paid to play tournament, or league with NO return on their Moines spent.

I know amateur golf has for years used a handicapping system in amateur tournament play, and it works.

I never once played in a handicapped tournament in my first 5 years of playing the game, and I did quite well, thank you very much.

The point you miss Cowboy, is that people don't improve as fast if they get a little bit of money along the way, that they did not EARN. If you are consistently winning money at a certain level, and you don't have to play out of your comfort level, why on earth would someone want to improve?

People who do not like getting beat, and don't have the drive to practice....Quit. That is universal in all sports.

People who have the drive to win...Practice so they can WIN, not so they can WIN MONEY. Those who practice simply to win money ALWAYS get held up in their development at some point.

Jesus, I used to travel from Washington all the way to Canada and Oregon to play the good players, with NO PRAYER of making the money back on the entry fees and gas.

People that expect money for substandard play make me sick.

Honestly.

Russ

 

[Milo]

Russ, I do understand what you are saying

I never once played in a handicapped tournament in my first 5 years of playing the game, and I did quite well, thank you very much.

The point you miss Cowboy, is that people don't improve as fast if they get a little bit of money along the way, that they did not EARN. If you are consistently winning money at a certain level, and you don't have to play out of your comfort level, why on earth would someone want to improve?

People who do not like getting beat, and don't have the drive to practice....Quit. That is universal in all sports.

People who have the drive to win...Practice so they can WIN, not so they can WIN MONEY. Those who practice simply to win money ALWAYS get held up in their development at some point.

Jesus, I used to travel from Washington all the way to Canada and Oregon to play the good players, with NO PRAYER of making the money back on the entry fees and gas.

People that expect money for substandard play make me sick.

Honestly.

Russ

Yes, I do agree with you on many levels. Everybody has to pay their dues.
But, IMO , to promote the sport and get more players involved, you have to have some handicapped tournaments. I do know of some establishments that have an open tournament one month and the next month have a handicapped tournament and so on. So, I think there is a middle ground in there.
I hope this post didnt make you sick. LOL

Take Care,
Andrea

 

[ShootingArts]

Ideally would maybe be two classes racing together

Ideally there could be one tournament with two purses, much like road races where multiple classes are racing at the same time but they not only place in the overall but in their division also. Have an open class and a handicapped class in one tournament. I think it could be done with a little thought.

When I gambled I was always gambling heads up unless I was giving a spot to a sucker to keep the money coming. I have never in my life asked for a spot gambling. I lost until I was good enough to win. To me tournaments are the same. Anything I pay out I am planning on raking back in the long run.

I have competed in many areas and as shocking as it may seem I didn't start out winning in any of them. I paid my dues and eventually I reaped the rewards. That is what I think competition should be about. I will note for one poster that there are many games/sports where all it takes is an entry fee to get you in with the best in the world. It is usually a humbling experience but the only way you earn these guy's respect is to compete with them. I haven't been a champion at everything I have done but I can honestly say that the champions noticed when I was at a competition.

Hu

 

[Travis Bickle]

Sure, it's great to go up even against the best and see where you stand. But it may also be useful to learn how to play getting a spot, or giving one.

 

[thebigdog]

I am so glad you post what you did above, please explain to me how it would improve my personal game to say pay a $100.00 Entry Fee, and Draw say Johnny Archer in a Race to 9 Games in say 9 Ball, and have Johnny beat me 9 ZIP. Think all i would do is be contributing to the Match Purse. (aka prize fund)

Sorry this make as much sense to me as going out to Turf Paradise (our local Horse Race Track) Betting $100.00 to win on a Clydesdale from the Budweisher Team, verses a Quarter Horse in a 1/4 mile race.

Think I could pick the winner of that Horse Race before the starting gate opened if both Horses stay on their feet..

Its funny what happened whenever I played in tournaments where I was in the bottom 20% of the field. I almost always performed better than expected, and I always came away from the tournament more confident and knowledgeable player. For some reason just being around better players always made me play better. Handicapped tournaments never did that for me.
Maybe for you, it just feels like you are donating. I happen to get much more out of it. A couple of tournaments I managed to get my entry back, and that was much sweeter than winning any handicapped tourney.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Yes, I do agree with you on many levels. Everybody has to pay their dues.
But, IMO , to promote the sport and get more players involved, you have to have some handicapped tournaments. I do know of some establishments that have an open tournament one month and the next month have a handicapped tournament and so on. So, I think there is a middle ground in there.
I hope this post didnt make you sick. LOL

Take Care,
Andrea

Nah, I'm not sick, and I completely understand where you are coming from. And I do remember you were right there in City Lights every Wednesday night, battling it out with some of the best players in the Seattle/Tacoma area...

Russ

 

[ForumGhost516]

I wish i could play better in them but i much prefer open tournaments as i really do feel it is a true test of a players skill to match up against some of the best around. If you are like me though and just a beginner i really think that handicap tournaments so long as they are run well and the spots are kept up with, i think these tournaments can be great also.

 

[PetToilet]

handicaps should be decreased a little to make hte lower players have to try very hard to win, and it be possible

 

[Milo]

Yes, Those were the days!!!!!

Nah, I'm not sick, and I completely understand where you are coming from. And I do remember you were right there in City Lights every Wednesday night, battling it out with some of the best players in the Seattle/Tacoma area...

Russ

Wasnt that a great tournament!!!! It is still going, but alot of the seattle players dont come anymore. (gas prices, traffic, etc)
I dont play on a reg. basis anymore due to me having a personal life now.LOL It is still is a good tournament. Steve-O, the TD now, does a good job.
I know alot of players, like you and me ,who would rather have no spot. But we have to be realistic about the future participation in some of the bigger tournaments. "To promote the sport, we have to make it feasable,to some degree, for the players to start participating and be part of this awesome sport" Look at both of us! We are good examples of players who were two and out of open tourneys, and now look! We can compete with the top players now.(we still lose more than not, but at least we keep up with them more than say 10 yrs ago)
We have to start somewhere! Why not try different formats. It wouldnt hurt, would it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Its funny what happened whenever I played in tournaments where I was in the bottom 20% of the field. I almost always performed better than expected, and I always came away from the tournament more confident and knowledgeable player. For some reason just being around better players always made me play better. Handicapped tournaments never did that for me.
Maybe for you, it just feels like you are donating. I happen to get much more out of it. A couple of tournaments I managed to get my entry back, and that was much sweeter than winning any handicapped tourney.

That is exactly how I feel like I am donating, and I am not real charatable. I do not like donating.

Couple of weeks ago I went to a open rated tournament, and got ran over. (luck of the draw)

Think I got to the table once, and than it was run, out after run out, and I was out and short in the wallet.

I can except defeat if I have a chance to play, but playing rack boy is B******T.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I have a question for you! Why don't you PRACTICE like the rest of us have done over the years. Put in the INVESTMENT of an entry fee to start to learn how well you have improved against better players rather than wanting something given to you. I have yet to see a handicapped tornament that had realistic handicaps. JMHO

You have made an ASSUMPTION about my Practicing.

 

[stuckart]

I like both handicap and open tournaments and I think every city needs to have both.

Personally I love playing in Open Tournaments against great players as that has really helped step up my game in the past year or so. But for the Handicap system, this is where you get tons of players. I, for one, am happy about the AZ ratings, and I'm rated a 9. 70% of the tournaments in the city I can't play in because they are for 8 & under, 7 & under and even 6 & under players. Good, let those tournaments breed lower ranked players until they get bumped up a level or two. I find that the people that are the verge of getting moved up a level will start wondering into Open tournaments more and more because they got other lower rated players money and got some tournament experience and think they can hang, or atleast want to keep getting better.

For Bar Owners, handicap tournaments make way too much sense to not have them. Let's see, hold an open tournament and get 12 players, or hold an 8 & Under (B and lower) and get 25+ players every week.

I just pulled the Weekly Tournament Guide for the Phoenix Metropolitan area and here is the break down of kinds of tourneys on any given week. (And not all the small bars are listed).

Rating - Number of Tournaments that Night
Open Rating
Mon - 5
Tue - 4
Wed - 3
Thur - 3
Frid - 3
Sat - 3
Sun - 7

9 & Under (B+ and Lower)
Thur - 1
Frid - 2
Sun - 2

8 & Under (B and Lower)
Mon - 3
Tue - 4
Wed - 2
Thur - 3
Frid - 1
Sat - 7
Sun - 2

7 & Under (C+ and Lower)
Mon - 1
Tue - 0
Wed - 0
Thur - 3
Frid - 1
Sat - 3
Sun - 3

6 & Under (C and Lower)
Mon - 1
Tue - 1
Sun - 1

Then there are Scotch tourneys as well, 8 with no rating restrictions 2 with.

I think that is a ton of choices for players of every level. I don't know many other cities that have that many weekly tournaments to choose from. And this is not counting the Monthly tournaments, which there is usually 2 or 3 different formats on any given weekend.

So my vote is BOTH, Handicapped and Open, let the individuals choose.

 

[Roger Long]

I agree!

If I beat a U.S. Open winner in a handicapped tourney, I have no story to tell my kids.

Russ

How true! I did once prevail over a U.S.Open champion in a handicapped tournament and it's nothing that I'm proud of because I didn't actually beat him, I just got past him.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I'll give anyone the Call 9.

 

[Black-Balled]

It is handicapalapable.

 

[Black-Balled]

That is exactly how I feel like I am donating, and I am not real charatable. I do not like donating.

Couple of weeks ago I went to a open rated tournament, and got ran over. (luck of the draw)

Think I got to the table once, and than it was run, out after run out, and I was out and short in the wallet.

I can except defeat if I have a chance to play, but playing rack boy is B******T.

WHat?! How would you feel if youwere in a tournament and played perfect pool, won a match and then had to listen to "playing rack boy is B******T".

You'd want to say, "play better next time then, sallie". But you wouldn't, coz you are too polite. Instead you'd say, "I was there once, but not today", smile, walk away and know that today is your day.

You either play or you don't. Tournies are not for everyone.