It's not a matter of fragile ego, (although I do realize that you just had to add in your usual insult to me), but it's a matter of being able to back up what you claim. Something you usually try to weasel out of with an insult.
Force-Follow Stroking Advice, If Possible..
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
It's not a matter of fragile ego, (although I do realize that you just had to add in your usual insult to me), but it's a matter of being able to back up what you claim. Something you usually try to weasel out of with an insult.
Extremist much? There is a lot of area between extremes.
Still waiting for your proof of fast twitch muscling by Efren
MY proof? Why are you putting words in my mouth, and then asking me to back up what I never said? Maybe you should re-read what I actually did say without looking for something to jump on me for.
1. I never said that fast twitch fibers where necessary. I did say that they can help.
2. I never said Efren had them more than slow twitch. You assumed that since Efren can do the shot, that he must have more fast twitch fibers than most people going by what I stated. Yet all I stated was, was that they can help. NOT that they are required.
3. You then asked me how I know he has fast twitch, (which I never said), and so I asked you an equally silly question. Which was, how do you know he doesn't?
4. So you asking me for prof of what I never said to start with, is just a go-nowhere question.
You sure like to argue in circles Neil.
Go ahead reword your own words.
Go ahead reword your own words.
What circles? Go look at the posts. Mine aren't edited, so they show what I actually said. Not my fault you have trouble reading without bias.
I agree with Fran. The amount of fast twitch muscles has zero to do with it .
A skinny dude like Efren can shoot that force follow as well as some dude with some good amount of fast twitch muscle . Efren himself said the two players he thought that had some powerful stroke are Antonio Lining and Rafael Martinez.
Oddly enough, Rafael also likes letting the cue slide. I talked to him once and he actually 2/10th of an oz in a cue makes a whole difference.
Pool stroke is not boxing . Lord, you really stretched that one. And even mocked Fran about her lack of boxing knowledge. I assure you, I know more about boxing than you ever will.
Since you know boxing, you should also know that speed is very important. Which is what the boxing reference was about. Something i thought everyone knew. Sorry I overestimated your and her knowledge, but thanks for setting me straight on that part.
You flatly state that fast twitch muscles have nothing to do with it. Whereas I said they might. On what basis can you definitely state that they don't? Oh, that's right, you can't. You just wanted to try and bust my balls by talking out your ass. Well, it doesn't bother me that you want to troll me and look stupid doing it. Not the first time you or Fran have done it.
p.s.- If you think a skinny dude can't have mostly fast twitch muscle fiber, you still don't know jack about the subject. But don;t let your ignorance get in the way of your trolling.
s
Interesting that this thread made a tangent into opinions on boxing technique.
I'm only a reasonable pool player, but am an engineer & also a martial arts student.
Power in a punch comes from the energy that can be directed from your stance, core stability & the speed of your fist THROUGH the point of contact.
Your body must operate in harmony, allowing you to transfer kinetic energy from all the areas you put in motion, coming to a focal point of delivery.
Faster punches, with the focal point beyond the actual point of contact, consistently deliver the most power, and often with less force exerted.
Snappy rather than forcefully driven.
This can be related to pool in a break shot, where often a lighter mass cue moving at higher speed is the most powerful break, transferring the highest percentage of energy developed by the player through the cue & into the CB.
You must still have the correct timing, rhythm & tip accuracy to have the power you transfer direct the CB to the desired outcome.
Where players use a heavier cue and don't generate the same speed & consequent power, they are relying on inertia, where the larger mass moving at "X" speed transfers into the CB, overcoming the resistance of the stationary CB by a factor equal to the difference in mass between cue & CB.
This will provide more predictable results for someone who's not developed the subconscious ability to generate & consistently transfer power that is achieved by repetition.
As for the "flick of the wrist" just before striking the CB, this is trying to develop more ball speed by adding english to the CB, which will cause it to accelerate after contacting the OB.
I understand the physics of this addition to the shot, but the level of consistency in timing & tip placement must be a much higher percentage to give a consistent outcome.
IMO it's an unnecessary variable, but if you're sufficiently talented/trained or at the peak of the 'bell curve', go for it & intimidate your opponent!
Aoplogies for the ramble-on!
To sum up, consistency of timing, tip to CB contact point & cue speed will give you a consistent predictable outcome in the shot. (The CB won't move as you go to strike it the way a boxing opponent would, so you already have 1pt in your favor!)
So practice well, aim for repetitions numbered in the thousands, and you will achieve!
Something that I do not know how to present but it's the "stroke". Very few pool players have it. My pool instructor has it and probably so does numerous professionals like Earl Strickland. About the only thing I can think of; It's like in golf that some can hold their wrist set deep into the downswing (almost over the ball) and hit the driver 320 yards like my son always could. Some have it and some don't. Others that try it will slice the ball out of the world. The pool "stroke" can be shown in many many forms and others can just not do it. I am curious why we just can not learn it. It's just a stick and a cue ball! My teacher can take the CB fixed on the end rail and the OB past the side pocket and back reverse the CB back to the rail where he started (for example). Many other shots that seem impossible and he is not anywhere near his playing forum of what he could do in the past.
First, you have to admit that very few pool players have it, and then someone please understand what I mean by having "the stroke" that 1 in 5 million have and try to explain it. What it is and why we just can not get it.
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Just because your teacher may not play now as well as he used to, it doesn't mean that he forgot how to stroke the cue. If you really want to understand the difference between him and you, for a start, you'll have to compare the total number of hours he practiced in his lifetime to yours.
Perhaps you don't understand how much and how many hours you must play diligently to perfect your stroke. Some players claim to be playing 30 years, but if you actually add up the time they the are on the table, it may amount to less than a year of someone who practices diligently.
That is all true, but I'm convinced someone can have the "stroke". It's like Sergio Garcia and his long bullet golf swing. Not everyone can achieve that starting at the very young age. I think the "stroke" in pool is the same God given gift.
Here is a little bit of "force follow" shot that could be used. Here the 2 ball has no pocket to go in except where the 1 ball goes. I can not use high follow because of the 7 ball so I'll pick a shot that uses a tangent and goes around with force follow CB. How many of us use this shot? https://youtu.be/bbks20pBtHo
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denwhit
i think you will enjoy/appreciate the force follow stroke on most of these shots.......:thumbup:
https://www.facebook.com/hotbillar/...KzVZCpGxeJ8mPscbrHnmnkPPGleohawt7ZpDPTGndpqVo
i think you will enjoy/appreciate the force follow stroke on most of these shots...
....:thumbup:https://www.facebook.com/hotbillar/...KzVZCpGxeJ8mPscbrHnmnkPPGleohawt7ZpDPTGndpqVo
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denwhit
i think you will enjoy/appreciate the force follow stroke on most of these shots...
https://www.facebook.com/hotbillar/...KzVZCpGxeJ8mPscbrHnmnkPPGleohawt7ZpDPTGndpqVo
Not "force-follow" but a lot of spin on the billiard balls. Fun to watch. Force follow is the upper most part of the CB. This guy is using draw and a lot of left and right spin.
The first shot is force follow to me
I agree, but the number of players with natural talent is much less than you think. Many achieve high levels through hard work.
dennis
look at the first shot
the shot at -1:30 and the shot at -0:53
the minus is how the timing shows on my video
meaning time time till the end
if you don't think those are force follow shots (yes with some spin) ask robim what he thinks
Yes, but my overall question is what makes "the stroke" for these gifted few? I don't think it's speed of the cue shaft, however. Why can some lower the shaft in draw almost to the cloth and not get a miscue, while others can be 1/2 cue tip up and get a miscue?
the ones who get a miscue probably have a flaw in their stroke and are not hitting where they are aiming
jmho
i am not an instructor
i also beleive you cannot teach talent
but skill can be developed with hard work and proper practice and discipline
again
jmho
'icbw