Increasing stroke speed?

[irspow]

I am just curious about what people think is an effective method or type of practice to increase controllable stroke speed.
I’ve tried progressive practice making longer and longer backstrokes. However, I have hit a wall where a full length backstroke only produces about 12-13mph cue ball speed for me. (I might have been born without fast-twitch muscle fibers )

 

[DeadStick]

I am just curious about what people think is an effective method or type of practice to increase controllable stroke speed.
I’ve tried progressive practice making longer and longer backstrokes. However, I have hit a wall where a full length backstroke only produces about 12-13mph cue ball speed for me. (I might have been born without fast-twitch muscle fibers )

Getting significantly faster than that requires that you recruit more levers and/or big muscles. Watch SVB’s wrist action on his power strokes, or any big breaker rise up and use their shoulder joint and upper body lunge forward.

 

[garczar]

Watch Stalev's delivery. I saw him in person at Derby and his power is just effortless. He grew up hitting those bigass Pyramid balls. BTW, he uses a long, heavy cue too.

Good match too.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Getting significantly faster than that requires that you recruit more levers and/or big muscles. ...

I think it just requires practice and timing (which is learned through practice). It's possible, for example, that the OP has serious fundamental mechanical problems, like gripping the cue eight inches in front of vertical.

 

[FranCrimi]

What are you trying to accomplish --- a break shot? What's your goal as far as speed?

 

[irspow]

What are you trying to accomplish --- a break shot? What's your goal as far as speed?

My goal isn’t a precise speed as much as a generalized desire for more cue speed for when it is needed. I can’t imagine any shot needing more speed than drawing a cue ball the length of the table when OB and CB start 8 diamonds apart. What I was wondering though is what might be the best exercise or practice technique to stroke faster. As I stated, currently with a full backstroke I can only get about 12-13mph. I just am at a loss as to what I should be trying to do as ‘accelerating harder’ is just sloppy without gaining any speed.

 

[FranCrimi]

My goal isn’t a precise speed as much as a generalized desire for more cue speed for when it is needed. I can’t imagine any shot needing more speed than drawing a cue ball the length of the table when OB and CB start 8 diamonds apart. What I was wondering though is what might be the best exercise or practice technique to stroke faster. As I stated, currently with a full backstroke I can only get about 12-13mph. I just am at a loss as to what I should be trying to do as ‘accelerating harder’ is just sloppy without gaining any speed.

Well what shots have you not been successful at because your speed was too slow?

 

[BC21]

A quick whipping action can be incorporated by use of the wrist, timed just before impact, sort of like the wrist-unhinging part of a good golf swing. The whip action creates a faster club head speed at impact, much faster than what the body mechanics of the arms can provide. The same principle can be applied to a pool stroke, when needed, to increase cue speed just before striking the cb.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I am just curious about what people think is an effective method or type of practice to increase controllable stroke speed.
I’ve tried progressive practice making longer and longer backstrokes. However, I have hit a wall where a full length backstroke only produces about 12-13mph cue ball speed for me. (I might have been born without fast-twitch muscle fibers )

How long is that full backstroke? To gain speed with efficiency and a smooth coast through impact, I recommend that a truly complete backstroke brings the ferrule all way back to disappear from sight inside the closed bridge, or up atop the fleshy part between the thumb and forefinger of the open bridge.

Bridge length is the distance between that loop or fleshy spot and the cue ball. How long is your bridge at address?

 

[Oikawa]

Show us a video of your stroke. This will provide much more useful feedback than guessing at potential issues.

 

[DeadStick]

How are you measuring your speed?

I’ve been working on SVB’s wristy power shot (not break shot - no rising up), and was able to hit 19.7 mph today. Just a long 14” or so backstroke keeping wrist loose, and a snap forward of the wrist just prior to impact.

I was shooting at just the 9-ball on the spot. Bad idea. It hit the end rail a little high and came flying back towards my right ear. I tried to catch it and was surprised to miss it completely. It kept rising and flew about 12 more feet and hit our front picture window about 5’ up from the floor, thankfully right on a crossbar so it didn’t shatter.

If you use the Break Speed app, make sure you manually check the waveform each time, it’s often starting or stopping at the wrong place…

 

[boogieman]

It kept rising and flew about 12 more feet and hit our front picture window about 5’ up from the floor, thankfully right on a crossbar so it didn’t shatter.

That's a tough one to explain to mama. Good thing it didn't hit glass!

 

[BC21]

How are you measuring your speed?

I’ve been working on SVB’s wristy power shot (not break shot - no rising up), and was able to hit 19.7 mph today. Just a long 14” or so backstroke keeping wrist loose, and a snap forward of the wrist just prior to impact.

I was shooting at just the 9-ball on the spot. Bad idea. It hit the end rail a little high and came flying back towards my right ear. I tried to catch it and was surprised to miss it completely. It kept rising and flew about 12 more feet and hit our front picture window about 5’ up from the floor, thankfully right on a crossbar so it didn’t shatter.

If you use the Break Speed app, make sure you manually check the waveform each time, it’s often starting or stopping at the wrong place…

View attachment 744917

Had a friend about 30yrs ago who was breaking, the cb jumped the racked balls, hit the nose of the end rail cushion and came flying back right into his crotch. He buckled over immediately. It happened so fast, it took a minute to figure out why he was lying on the floor.

 

[FranCrimi]

You have to be specific in what you want to know. Like for example: "I'm having trouble generating enough speed for this particular shot." There are different techniques you can apply for different types of shots. But if you're looking for a general answer in how to increase speed, it won't be all that much help to you.

 

[WobblyStroke]

How are you measuring your speed?

I’ve been working on SVB’s wristy power shot (not break shot - no rising up), and was able to hit 19.7 mph today. Just a long 14” or so backstroke keeping wrist loose, and a snap forward of the wrist just prior to impact.

I was shooting at just the 9-ball on the spot. Bad idea. It hit the end rail a little high and came flying back towards my right ear. I tried to catch it and was surprised to miss it completely. It kept rising and flew about 12 more feet and hit our front picture window about 5’ up from the floor, thankfully right on a crossbar so it didn’t shatter.

If you use the Break Speed app, make sure you manually check the waveform each time, it’s often starting or stopping at the wrong place…

View attachment 744917

let's learn from almost and not do that again lol.

The best setup I've seen for practicing power breaks when just working on the speed building is a guy who threw his puffy winter jacket and hoody down by the foot rail and blasted away into them. Jasmyn Oaschan has a vid using pillows instead....a fine option for home tables.

This is ideal if just working on speed and not actual break yet. No time wasted racking. and most importantly, no balls flying into crotches or windows.

 

[DeadStick]

let's learn from almost and not do that again lol.

The best setup I've seen for practicing power breaks when just working on the speed building is a guy who threw his puffy winter jacket and hoody down by the foot rail and blasted away into them. Jasmyn Oaschan has a vid using pillows instead....a fine option for home tables.

This is ideal if just working on speed and not actual break yet. No time wasted racking. and most importantly, no balls flying into crotches or windows.

I have a BreakRak with radar, which is truly ideal, but after a recent move I can’t find it. Sad.

 

[Poolmanis]

I just bought one from a longtime member here. I sent him half the money on Zelle. As soon as he got the money he began ignoring me. He said he would send me the tracking number immediately after payment. I’ve sent him about 8 emails with no replies. I’m pretty sure he scammed me. Once I’m 100% shire I’m going to put him here on AZ everywhere I can. Bastard really makes me ill. I was buying a Breakrack so don’t buy from anywhere here unless you send me a private message and I’ll give you the thief’s name. Again, I’ll disclose the thief’s name when I’m 100% sure he is a thief.

I have read many times on AZB that accounts are compromised by hacker. Normally happens with cues but scammers use what they can..
I believe there are topics about what to use deal safely.. I hope you get your things sorted out.

Here one of these threads..

Read This….Watch Out For This Scammer…..It’s Real!!!

Well AZ some people out there just don’t have anything else to do but try to scam people out of their money. But my personal problem is, they decided to use my AZB UserID…..wrong move!!! Twice now I’ve been contacted about something for sale or...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Joegolf]

I thought it was CeeBee but found out today that it wasn’t. The guy was someone who stole his info off of AZBilliars and then scammed me. I’m glad it want Charlie as he’s a very good man.
Joe

 

[BRKNRUN]

I have not seen this mentioned .....so here are my "observations" and input that you can try and see if it helps.....As far as "technique" goes I am self taught through reading, observation and trial and error.....I also drag everything I know from Golf into the pool world.....So take this with a grain of salt and "experiment"

For long drives (in Golf) a couple very basic key aspects to harness extra power (that I think carry over to pool) is head behind the ball and a solid coil on the back leg without the back knee breaking down and flexing back.....I think both of those things carry over to the bigger breakers...... I don't think the other aspects of a long drive carry over to pool the same so they are not worth mentioning.

If you observe Shane....his whole set up lends itself to more power.....If you notice his chin in relation to the cue joint in his normal stroke and break....It is slightly further back than most players........One of my stance flaws is my head position tends to creep forward over the joint.....It seems if I can catch that and keep it back slightly behind the joint I shoot better....

This also carries over to the break.....If my head is too far forward on the cue (over the joint) It is basically the same as your getting your head in front of the Golf ball....you lose both accuracy and it is death to power.....In pool it seems (to me) to be a drastic power loss on the break......Moving the head back slightly changes everything....both shot accuracy, timing and power on the break...(it also naturally lengthens your stroke a bit)

The other is the back foot.....If you start with all your weight on the front foot....you have no place to go and no body power.......What I find is if I "ground" my back heel....(get the feeling that your back "heel" is solid on the ground) it will shift your weight back just slightly but not over shift.

Now on the back stroke.....similar to Golf.....you want to keep that back foot (heel)...(and also the back butt cheek) very still as you draw the cue back.....resist that urge to rock back trying to generate a bigger wind up and more power.....Keep that back foot ,leg, butt still.

Just those moves IMO should help you generate a 20+ MPH break.....If you want the big 30+ you will have to practice the raise up which generates a longer lever.....The longer lever you can create the more cue speed.....(but the raise up can be detrimental to accuracy of hit)

Personally I don't feel like the 30mph break is necessary and I have short arms to begin with so I am happy with my 19-20mph break where I have a better chance at an accurate hit.

 

[sparkle84]

I am just curious about what people think is an effective method or type of practice to increase controllable stroke speed.
I’ve tried progressive practice making longer and longer backstrokes. However, I have hit a wall where a full length backstroke only produces about 12-13mph cue ball speed for me. (I might have been born without fast-twitch muscle fibers )

You didn't ask about breaking yet got a lot of advice on that. SVB was also a focal point even though his break speed is fairly average. His results are not related to speed.
The most cogent question asked in this thread was by Fran in #14.
12 to 13 mph is certainly plenty fast enough for 99% of shots. Also, backstroke length is not necessarily the determining factor in speed and/or power (check out Alex P.).
For better advice be more specific with your questions and/or post a video.
My guess is Bob J. hit the nail on the head in that the issue may be rooted in fundamentals.