Thx Will. It's condition is why I will probably keep it. I know I have never seen one this perfect. It is going in a case when I get home.
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Ivory? Cue ball
- Thread starter Billiard Architect
- Start date
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I agree Jay its quality is what made me question if it was ivory or not
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Thanks Rhino. Taking pictures of a white ball with white grain with a cell phone is not easy
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Hmm It does look basically like pristine ivory but that sheen is mind boggling.
I've never seen any ivory ball, new or used, with a finish like that.
And zero grain marks or checks?
Not impossible but the odds of that are astro-frickin-nomical.
I'm a little suspicious about the size as well.
Perhaps we should also compare the weight.
At this time I cannot state that it's ivory with full confidence.
I've never seen any ivory ball, new or used, with a finish like that.
And zero grain marks or checks?
Not impossible but the odds of that are astro-frickin-nomical.
I'm a little suspicious about the size as well.
Perhaps we should also compare the weight.
At this time I cannot state that it's ivory with full confidence.
I will be heading home on Wednesday. I will weigh it. Curious... is ivory heavier or lighter?
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I read I can heat up a needle an try to burn it... That is not going to happen.
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Hi,
Almost certainly ivory. But I'd rather hold it to decide.
No one, to my knowledge, has come up with a synthetic that reproduces the Schreger lines characteristic of elephant and mammoth ivory. The elephant Schreger lines are at >115 degree angle, as seen in these balls. Mammoth at 90 degrees. Careful examination shows areas where the lines are off from parallel. Any synthetic likely would be perfect.
You can use a UV ("Black Light") and look for fluorescence, which is characteristic of most plastics and resins. Then the hot pin test - ivory chars, plastics melt, smoke and smell.
Density is also important. When I tested a synthetic cue ball on an electron micropobe I came up with lots of barium, undoubtedly barium sulfate used to increase the ball density. Ivory has a density of 1.85; most plastics are less dense than water (they are made from oil, and oil floats on water). Typical pool ball density is 1.7. Plastics can be dense - the teflon in my labware is 2.2, and very expensive. The phenolic resins used for billiard balls have a density around 1.3.
Take care,
Nick
Almost certainly ivory. But I'd rather hold it to decide.
No one, to my knowledge, has come up with a synthetic that reproduces the Schreger lines characteristic of elephant and mammoth ivory. The elephant Schreger lines are at >115 degree angle, as seen in these balls. Mammoth at 90 degrees. Careful examination shows areas where the lines are off from parallel. Any synthetic likely would be perfect.
You can use a UV ("Black Light") and look for fluorescence, which is characteristic of most plastics and resins. Then the hot pin test - ivory chars, plastics melt, smoke and smell.
Density is also important. When I tested a synthetic cue ball on an electron micropobe I came up with lots of barium, undoubtedly barium sulfate used to increase the ball density. Ivory has a density of 1.85; most plastics are less dense than water (they are made from oil, and oil floats on water). Typical pool ball density is 1.7. Plastics can be dense - the teflon in my labware is 2.2, and very expensive. The phenolic resins used for billiard balls have a density around 1.3.
Take care,
Nick
Thx Nick, very informative! I noticed the lines almost weave between groups. I have learned a lot about ivory pool balls over the last couple of days.
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Besides the hot pin test, miscues on ivory balls have a characteristic odor a little like burnt hair. Really. In the case of a phenolic ball, you also get an odor (different, of course) by rubbing vigorously in one spot with your thumb until warm but the ivory balls I've tried that with do not produce the characteristic odor.
Of course, if you live in California the ball does not have any cash value.
Of course, if you live in California the ball does not have any cash value.
What ever you have purchased IMHO it is worth the dollars spent. I would like to say Ivory, I have seen many Ivory billiard balls and have never seen one with such consistent cross hatching( Schreger lines). I also have never seen any man made substance that really come close to the look of Ivory. The balls I have collected have all been around 2.40 but should be comparable to pocket billiard balls at 2.250. If this ball is Ivory than the Elephant that the tusk belonged to must have been quite the specimen.
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LOL, Bob I moved from Cali around 13 years ago. Live in Florida now. Love it out here. Ocean is warmer, more pool halls per capita and it is MUCH cheaper.Besides the hot pin test, miscues on ivory balls have a characteristic odor a little like burnt hair. Really. In the case of a phenolic ball, you also get an odor (different, of course) by rubbing vigorously in one spot with your thumb until warm but the ivory balls I've tried that with do not produce the characteristic odor.
Of course, if you live in California the ball does not have any cash value.
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Thanks CB. It is sad that if what I found, is in such good quality, that it makes people question its authenticity. I wish there was a way to test it further without burning it.
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Weighing this and holding it under a Black light will help but you may be able to contact David Warther and ask for his opinion. The area around the nerve hole on your ball looks very authentic and not something that could be faked easily.
The value of Ivory balls varies greatly due to quality, size, condition and providence. The last time I looked (and its been a few years) $100 would get you a beat up Ivory pool ball and $450 could buy a nice set of three billiard balls and the original box.
http://www.warther.org/
I think it's a Snooker ball!
And the last time I asked A.E. Schmidt about getting a set of balls trued I was told it would be $80 per ball. The turner had retired and only came in on special request. I think that was 10-15 years ago. They no longer offer turning work. I suppose these days it would be done on some kind of programmed machine.
Interesting. I have a very nice ball that has a thin chip at the opposite pole than the nerve hole. The nerve hole looks as if it may have been drilled out slightly to accommodate a lathe center then filled with what might be Ebony.
This would be an interesting project to try, I have lathes and tools. There is pictures and some info on the web but if I am to try to turn the ball down it would be good to talk to someone who has experience. George Britner would be my first choice
.Check out this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MnjQriIuk
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Non-destructive test
Hi again,
The best non-destructive test technique is x-ray fluorescence in which the constituent elements are excited by an x-ray beam. In a series of electron orbital events, each element will re-radiate characteristic x-rays of unique and known energy. Detecting these x-rays identifies the elements present in the specimen. For ivory there will be chiefly calcium and phosphorous characteristic x-rays given off. Ivory, like all mammal bone and teeth, is composed essentially of the mineral hydroxyapatite - Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2. A minor amount of collagen and related organic compounds hold the microscopic apatite "bricks" together. Thus the expected Ca and P signals. Where do you get an XRF instrument? They are common in geology, environmental, and materials science labs. I've got 3 in my lab, including a hand-held unit the size of a cordless drill. Call your local university and see whether anyone could do the analysis - it would take about 10 seconds of exposure and less than a minute for the whole deal.
The x-rays do not alter the ivory; perhaps if you exposed it for a day there could be some color change.
Take care,
Nick
Hi again,
The best non-destructive test technique is x-ray fluorescence in which the constituent elements are excited by an x-ray beam. In a series of electron orbital events, each element will re-radiate characteristic x-rays of unique and known energy. Detecting these x-rays identifies the elements present in the specimen. For ivory there will be chiefly calcium and phosphorous characteristic x-rays given off. Ivory, like all mammal bone and teeth, is composed essentially of the mineral hydroxyapatite - Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2. A minor amount of collagen and related organic compounds hold the microscopic apatite "bricks" together. Thus the expected Ca and P signals. Where do you get an XRF instrument? They are common in geology, environmental, and materials science labs. I've got 3 in my lab, including a hand-held unit the size of a cordless drill. Call your local university and see whether anyone could do the analysis - it would take about 10 seconds of exposure and less than a minute for the whole deal.
The x-rays do not alter the ivory; perhaps if you exposed it for a day there could be some color change.
Take care,
Nick