No we have never met Sir.
Mechanics... Diomond Tables
- Thread starter chalkdust
- Start date
No we have never met Sir.
Diamond 9' Pro Am's are used in many of the most prestigious tour events around the world.... from the US Open, to Derby City, to The TAR table in Vegas where the greatest players in the world match up for big $$$.
Do you honestly think that those are, as you say "gaff" tables?
Don't you think maybe, just maybethe engineers at Diamond and Artemis would have figured out the correct orientation of the cushions?
Yes, Diamond did make a change to their subrail specs a few years ago to help the tables bank better, but that change had nothing to do with the rubber being "upside down".
I believe Artemis has been selling carom rubber and NOT supplying the proper information. Do you think this may involve salesmen? What does a salesman know about pool? Take a look at thier web site, billiard rubber is a very small part of thier company. I'm not sure they know what POOL is.
These great touranments are held on near new covered tables and I still see some of these champs shoot a lot of short banks. Sometimes I see them avoid shape on a bank and choose a harder shot instead. I am also starting to see older matches on GCs that if you look close you can see the round side down on the side rail at the corner pocket. The champs havbe a hard time on them to.
Do I detect another inquireing mind???
You know as well as I do, Diamond is the only table manufacture that uses the Artemis Intercontinental K55 profile cushions, in fact if Diamond had decided not to use it when they did, you'd have never seen it, or installed it in the course of working on rails. For several years now everyone that we've rebuilt rails for have done nothing but compliments how their tables play. I've never had one complaint from anyone about how the cushions play years after the jobs have been finished, and neither have you. Diamond decided to use the Artemis cushions because they were the K55 profile, even though it's been used as a billiard cushion for many years. If we were talking about billiard tables using these cushions, this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.
Artemis has been selling both the K55 and K66 profile cushions, there's no secret sales bait and switch taking place. The K55 profile cushions are primarily used on billiard tables, but Diamond decided to try them on their pool tables as a more reliable cushion, and they worked out well. Change is hard for some to accept I guess, and yes they contact the object ball above the equator as you've explained, as with ALL cushions. The center of the object ball is 1 1/8", and ALL cushions come into contact above that point. We tried the Artemis K66 profile cushions on a Diamond table, they didn't play as well as the K55 cushions did, so we opted not to use them as they don't play well on sub-rails 1 11/16" thick, they play best on 1 5/8" sub-rails with a 1 3/8" nose height.
Where have YOU been, Gabriels has been using the Artemis K66 profile cushions on their pool tables for YEARS, so what's so new about them?
No Sir, Artemis hss BEEN selling K66 and carom rubber cut at 48" lenths that only matches K55 when it is fabric side down. The NEW Intercontinental No 66 has changed, it is shown with fabric on top and has different dimensions. This is not yet posted in the Mueller web site but is in the new catalog. I will post pics tonight.. If this is not an issue, why the change.
There is not one rubber in any catalog or on any pool, carom or snooker table with the round side down that I have ever seen. I challange anyone to show me any other example.
I know they have been selling K66, it is called "Artemis Pool No.66", what they have been selling for K55 is called "Artemis Intercontinental pool No.66" exact same as the Artemis Carom rubber. Thier NEW Intercontinental No.66 is totaly differant... WHY??? Have they been getting complaints??? Is there a problem that nobody is talking about? Why the change?
In the 80s and 90s one could not find 10ft. pool rubber so you had to buy carom rubber to do 10ft. pool tables. Doing antique conversions (carom to pool) is the first time I used No.66 on a pool table, after having learned from my carom table f*** up I installed it fabric side down and the rails play great.
I sorry this thred has the Diamond name on it, I started the thred just to vent about a hard day working on tables I was not familiar with.(been part timer for the past 10 years or so) I am lucky to have a very knowledgeable partner or I would be doing the same as everyone when installing this bubber.
I am NOT trying to bad mouth any mechanics or the Diamond Co. but I do blame Artemis and thier supplyiers for not putting out proper information.
I will post pics tonight, catalog is at my shop.
Seems like a lot of worry for nothing. If Artemis has in fact changed their cushion profile(s) in some way, the table makers will either adjust their rails, or simply choose not to employ them.
Either they will fit and work, or they won't. (And rails will have to be adjusted)
Mechanics will learn to use them, or they won't.
Whatever the case, I can assure you that Artemis is not going about their business in a Willy-nilly manor. If they changed something, I'm sure there was a good reason.
I hope you understand that, as it is now, there is but a tiny difference between the K55 and K66 cushion profile. The 55 being slightly thicker, which would be better for heavier carom balls. But beyond that slight difference, the two profiles are designed to perform precisely the same, when installed at the proper height and angle.
Either they will fit and work, or they won't. (And rails will have to be adjusted)
Mechanics will learn to use them, or they won't.
Whatever the case, I can assure you that Artemis is not going about their business in a Willy-nilly manor. If they changed something, I'm sure there was a good reason.
I hope you understand that, as it is now, there is but a tiny difference between the K55 and K66 cushion profile. The 55 being slightly thicker, which would be better for heavier carom balls. But beyond that slight difference, the two profiles are designed to perform precisely the same, when installed at the proper height and angle.
VERY well put Bond.....Mr. Bond :thumbup:
If that doesn't hit home, then I'd say it's beyond comprehension!
I spoke with Chad today, and he is not aware of any changes in the Artemis cushions at all, and Artemis has not notified him of any changes, one would think if there was a change, their largest buyer in the US would be informed...so maybe it's a secret
And, I can further add that if Diamond was thinking about a change in cushions, I'd be one of the first to know about a change:grin:
perfectpocketz
Banned
Maybe your forgetting that I do all tables....oh yeah that's right you said in another post that I only do rails and someone else finishes the table for me.
Well I've put the same cushion on billiard tables....worked on billiard tables that use the same cushion.
So even if Diamond had never used the Artemis cushion....I'm more than sure I would have seen them....as well as used them on billiard tables.
I'm not knocking anyone....or anyone that uses that cushion.....cause I use them all the time on rails.
What I asked was have you ever seen any other cushion used hump side down.
I didn't ask about how my customers feel about the Artemis cushion....I've had a lot of guy's ask me why after 6 months or so the table speeds up and starts to back short.
When I use Brunswick Super Speed cushions...the table plays better and better as the cloth breaks in.
Trust me....you know as well as I know I'm putting the cushions on perfect...and my rail work is dead nuts on.....I think you know that as well...after all you were just here in my shop not 3 months ago.....checking my rail work with calipers and found not one thing wrong.
I'm putting the hump side up on all my artemis from here on out.......is that going to fix anything.....I'll soon find out in about 6 months.
The only problem I see with the Aremis cushion is that when your in a pressure match.....the cushion becomes so lively that it can make the player start playing tentative.
That's straight from some of the best players in the world.... my GC5 has artemis on at 1-31/64ths...and plays real lively......but that's also hump side down.
I know you don't know anything more than I do about the cushions or the rail work.....but maybe one your students may know something that we don't and can help us?
Mark Gregory
Klematch P59 cushions are the exact same profile as the Artemis Intercontinental #66 cushions, including the canvas strip being installed on the flat sided, just like the Artemis
I've never had them calls from my customers 6 months later
but I'll check with my "students" to see if any of them have just for you, OKGlen
perfectpocketz
Banned
I've never had them calls from my customers 6 months later
Glen
I was sure that was going to be your answer.....funny how some things never change....but you still haven't answered my question about have you ever seen the hump side of the cushion on the bottom on any other cushion?
Third time I've asked you.
Mark Gregory