My current top 15 rotation players

[AtLarge]

... races to 7, 9, or 11 don't really like it for me I feel I'm a little slow starter and don't have a great break, and it's so much luck at the pro level. You can lose to someone that you're 3 speeds above very easily...Race to 9 playing 9 or 10 ball is like playing 3 holes of golf or like a tennis math first one to 5 points wins the whole set... Maybe even a bigger joke than that since at least in tennis you have a chance to defend every point... Pool a guy breaks gets easy outs his 5 breaks, then you hang the 10 ball or dry beak or make 4 balls and have no shot.. Well he can miss 5 times and you play perfect and lose... Race to 21 or 30 or 80 it will even out for the most part.

You make some valid points. Esteemed AzB member sjm has written quite a few times on short races vs. marathons. Here are a few of his comments on this subject.

... Personally, I don't consider gambling matches to be part of the world of legitimate pool, and neither do the governing bodies of our sport. Nonetheless, I admire those who can play a long match and perform at a high level for a long time at pool or anything else.

Should we respect Usain Bolt less than the Olympic gold medalist in the marathon because he only runs 100 meters? Should we respect the Olympic gold medalist in the marathon any less because there is some guy who could beat him consistently if the race were extended to 100 miles? Ultimately, when it comes to sports, we respect those that excel in the events arranged and sanctioned by the governing bodies.

Who would win if US Open tennis matches were best of fifteen sets rather than five is of little importance to me, as the USTA has determined that best of five is the optimal match length to sort out who is our national champion.

I have enough admiration in me to give credit to all who excel at their disciplines, but when it comes to figuring out who is the best, there is only one way. Get all of the best together and let them duke it out until one of them is left. Every sport I can think of determines its champions that way, including pool.

... Making your way in the world of pool is about learning how to win short races, not long races. As both Dennis Hatch and Mike Dechaine commented when they participated in a TAR podcast, with winner breaks, there is much more pressure in a short race because you know that your next mistake may be your last. Dealing with late match pressure is the true measure of a champion. The Derby City Nine Ball event, consisting of races to seven has given us Orcullo and Van Boening as our last two champions. No, the short race doesn't get in the way of the cream rising to the top, but is instead a great way to identify the true champions. ...

... Wanna prove you're the best? Beat six consecutive champions on six different tables on which you've probably never played before. Only the greats seem up to the challenge against the most elite fields. It takes a great competitive pedigree and you've got no room for error. You'll face late match pressure several times along the way and you'll have to be good enough to fade it. Play bad for an hour once and your opportunity to win is gone. ...

... The longest race I can eve think of in a tournament final is the race to 17 final at the world 9-ball championships used for years. I think they've since shortened it, and to me, that makes sense. Winning the biggest championships tends to involve beating champion after champion having different styles while switching tables over and over.

Having said that, the long race has novelty value, and as TAR has clearly demonstrated, entertainment value, too. There is room in pool for such matches, and I admire and thank TAR for developing its worthwhile product, which I often purchase.

The long races against a single opponent on a single table are for entertainment. Tournaments are for finding out who is best, and the tougher the field, the more telling a tournament is.

The greatest players are the ones whose games travel well, from country to country, from tournament to tournament, and from table to table. Only a few are consistently up to this challenge, and many of them are already Hall of Famers.

... short races ... are the races that have, quite logically, determined the world champions for nearly a century. Short race events require sustained excellence match after match, not sporadic otherworldly performance. ... The great ones are the ones that prevail over the very toughest fields which, in our sport, are found at the WPA World Championship events. ...

 

[fastone371]

I've played US Open 3 times, never played a World 9 Ball why would I? They have tournaments in Missouri that pay better than the World 9 ball and you don't have to go to Qatar to play. The qualifiers for the World is harder than the actual tournament. But you're pool expert & know everything

If players gotta pay their own way I dont see where it makes financial sense to play in the overseas tournaments with the price of air fare, accommodations, etc. and thats not even taking into consideration the hassle of going thru customs with weird stuff like pool cues. What I really want to know is how does Bergman hit center pocket so beautifully on every shot? The ball rarely touches the facings much less clipping a rail on the way to the pocket.

 

[The-Professor]

Tier One - Dennis, Alex, Lee Vann, Carlo, Francisco, Chua, Ignacio, Kiamco. Lining maybe.

What about Alcano?

 

[Black-Balled]

If players gotta pay their own way I dont see where it makes financial sense to play in the overseas tournaments with the price of air fare, accommodations, etc. and thats not even taking into consideration the hassle of going thru customs with weird stuff like pool cues. What I really want to know is how does Bergman hit center pocket so beautifully on every shot? The ball rarely touches the facings much less clipping a rail on the way to the pocket.

He aims...what's wrong with the rest of us?! We should too:embarrassed2::angry:

 

[jay helfert]

What about Alcano?

He's slipped a notch to second tier.

 

[hotelyorba]

Big problem for me is I don't go to enough tournaments because 95 percent aren't worth going to, races to 7, 9, or 11 don't really like it for me I feel I'm a little slow starter and don't have a great break, and it's so much luck at the pro level. You can lose to someone that you're 3 speeds above very easily...

Seems to me like you have areas you should work on. You're a fabulous player, you got all the tools to run out any rack so there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to win short races too.

I think for a REALLY good player, race length should not matter if it's race to 9 or more. Guess that's the tipping point, anything less than 9 the luck factor gets too big. I feel, one thing that makes a top player is the ability to alter your game to suit the circumstances so that you'll still win.

oh and also, Niels Feijen is WAY too low on that list in the opening post. Should be 4th of 5th at least. He's a great example of a player that can switch gears to win the game when he's on a course to defeat - seen that happen many times.

 

[Justin Bergman]

Pool & running are not even comparable. I'm trying to understand your point but it doesn't make sense. I agree the best players are the players that play well in all kinds of conditions, variables, different games, etc. But to say who wins a 16 man field in a race to 5 format absolutely proves nothing and if you don't see that you are blind. Just for example this tournament I'm playing now.. I've seen at least 10 times already where a player was literally 4-5 speeds above a player and they lost in a race to 7 alternate break. In pool you need equal chances to prove who is better.... How those players lost goes like this.... Dry break or unluck gets kicked in on break down 0-1, opponent breaks gets a hanger out, down 0-2 well now 30 percent of the set is over... That's not a legitimate match sorry.... If you don't see that than you really don't understand top level pool.

 

[mikepage]

I keep hearing about the short races , yet the upper level players fade the luck factor and finish high on a pretty consistent level in big events ,,

1

There is a subtlety here.

There is a difference between statements A and B

A. The top finishers tend to be top-level players, even in a short-race format
B. A top-level player will be a top finisher

Statement A is true for short or long races. Statement B requires long races.

So with a short-race format, you might find, say, that the top 8 are on the list at the start of this thread (statement A) but that Feijen and Ko Pin Yi failed to even advance from the group rounds (i.e., NOT B).