Predator table review, 2024 Expo

[iusedtoberich]

I wonder how much you pay for the Predator name alone, as opposed to the actual quality of the table? My experience with Predator equipment is that it is somewhat cheaply made.

The tables are made in Europe (Spain), where overall manufacturing costs are typically higher than USA, and definitely higher than Asia. Then they have to be shipped over, import duties, etc. In my "guestimation" Predator is not adding any extra cost to the end consumer due to their name.

Maybe if anyone is still around that would remember the price of Kim-Steel tables when they were out in the late 90's, how their cost compared to Bruswick at the time. I recall Diamond at the time was about half of Brunswick. I wonder where Kim-Steel fell in that spectrum.

 

[Thresh]

7’ aren’t really pool tables, just like ping pong isn’t tennis and putt putt isn’t golf.
That’s my honest review, sorry not sorry

What percentage of places to play pool have 7ft tables vs something else?

7ft tables are the future. More revenue per square foot.

 

[Thresh]

The tables are made in Europe (Spain), where overall manufacturing costs are typically higher than USA, and definitely higher than Asia. Then they have to be shipped over, import duties, etc. In my "guestimation" Predator is not adding any extra cost to the end consumer due to their name.

Maybe if anyone is still around that would remember the price of Kim-Steel tables when they were out in the late 90's, how their cost compared to Bruswick at the time. I recall Diamond at the time was about half of Brunswick. I wonder where Kim-Steel fell in that spectrum.

There are no import taxes from Europe.

Predator is most definitely adding margin because of the name, name brand is there business model.

 

[Rodney]

I don’t remember the year , but I’d say at least 17 years ago I tried a Diamond 7 footer at the expo. It was definitely a pinball machine! I’ve played on a bunch of 9’s since then and the rails were a little more lively than GC’s but they played well.

 

[muskyed]

I guess I didn't see Dr Dave complaining about Diamond tables, just that some are bouncier than others. In fact, in my area people have switched leagues just to be able to play on Diamond tables. I also don't think some are referred to as outcasts as was stated, but more as in the minority, not majority.
As has been pointed out many times the cushion rubber is different on 9' Diamonds than 7' and 8' ones. How they bounce is what it is, maybe Gold Crown actually is the one that has had it wrong all along? I do enjoy playing on them though, but no more than my Diamond. Then awhile back all we herd was they bank wrong, it was nonstop. What's wrong with how they bank? Maybe Gold Crown has been wrong all along on that also, and Diamond tables actually bank the way a table should? There are a lot of threads out there about people that have, and want to modify their Gold Crown rails, and I don't remember one thread of anyone wanting to modify a Blue Label rail other than possibly to tighten up their pockets, but not the rails.
I guess if a table should play like a Gold Crown plays, Gold Crown would still be relevant in the pool scene, and it's not. In fact, for the most part when a pool hall upgrades, they don't upgrade with new Gold Crowns.
The only negative I see in a Diamond is the shelf depth, but that's just my feelings.

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

As I said, I am far from an expert, but for me, any 7ft tables I played on seemed like pinball machines, LOL. I feel like a giant on a 7ft table, LOL. Maybe it's altering my stroke, strength, game, etc., but so many of those 7ft tables seemed like super-speedways. That said, I was born and raised on a 9ft table. Then a friend got an 8ft table. Then when we started hanging out in bars with pool tables, they were all 8ft tables. They seemed far more "true" to me than 7ft tables. While I know the cushions, rubber, etc., are different on 7, 8, and 9ft tables, the size just seemed to be the overwhelming factor.

All that being said, the last two years I had a table in my house, a friend down the street had the top of line Diamond table (both 9ft). We were very close to equals in our game. I had a slight edge in 8-ball, he had a slight edge in 9-ball, and in straight pool it was a toss up. Not to my surprise, the real edge was who had home table advantage! LOL. Anyway, both tables were excellent. I can't say that one was "livelier" than the other, or one played "faster" than the other (Simonis cloth aside, LOL), and so forth.

As far as today, I am not sure that the argument is about who makes the better table, as much as it's about who is doing more to support the sport and the industry. However, I could be wrong. Excellent thread everyone, and thanks for the insight.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

7ft tables are the future. More revenue per square foot.

atleast in this country

europe and asia arent falling over themselves to rush out the big tables and bring in the small ones

minus england where they play alot of both 6fters and snooker tables

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

What percentage of places to play pool have 7ft tables vs something else?

7ft tables are the future. More revenue per square foot.

Do you really believe that moving forward the majority of the pool rooms in the US will be 7 ft tables (because of revenue per sq. ft,)?

 

[Thresh]

Do you really believe that moving forward the majority of the pool rooms in the US will be 7 ft tables (because of revenue per sq. ft,)?

I do, that's economics.

I'm in Illinois. 9 ft tables are rare. Simple fact is you can have more 7 ft tables in the same space.

I mean, maybe it's just Illinois? Maybe I'm the weird state where 9ft tables aren't the majority? Pool Halls in this area will have 35 seven foot tables and 5 nine footers.

Bars with tables always have 7ft. Even pool bars I go to have eight 7 ft tables.

I have a 9ft at home. I love 9ft tables, it's easier to play on a 9 ft. More break and runs, less break outs.

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

I do, that's economics.

I'm in Illinois. 9 ft tables are rare. Simple fact is you can have more 7 ft tables in the same space.

I mean, maybe it's just Illinois? Maybe I'm the weird state where 9ft tables aren't the majority? Pool Halls in this area will have 35 seven foot tables and 5 nine footers.

Bars with tables always have 7ft. Even pool bars I go to have eight 7 ft tables.

I have a 9ft at home. I love 9ft tables, it's easier to play on a 9 ft. More break and runs, less break outs.

While I respect your answer to my question, which was "yes" -- your opinion as to why your answer is correct, well, that I respectfully disagree with. What you portrayed about more 7ft tables in a space than 9ft tables is not economics. That's math. Math will certainly, absolutely, tell us that you can fit more 7ft tables into a space than 9 ft tables. Simple math. Simple mathematical fact. However, that's where the math ends. That has nothing to do with economics. Revenue, the results that come from either scenario, is completely a different story. Sure you have more tables with 7 footers, but who is to say they will generate more revenue than the 9 footers over time. Who is to say the pool rooms with 9ft tables won't be more popular, and last longer, than the ones with 7ft tables. Regardless, after the math fact, from that point, it's a fallacious discussion. Too many hypotheticals.

That said, where I come from, and in this area of the Northeast (let's say, NY, NJ, CT, PA), I think the opposite is true. Most of the pool rooms I have gone to have more 9ft tables than 7ft tables. Let others from this area tell me I am mistaken. With all variables being equal, except the tables, I would think that pool rooms with 9 foot tables will have a better chance to survive than pool rooms with 7 foot tables. One-timers and the once in a while players may prefer a 7ft table. But those aren't the players who are going to be your regulars and allow your pool room to survive over time. Regular pool players, players who play weekly or more, serious pool players, players like the members on this board -- like you and me, as you said you love 9ft tables, you have one at home, and so do I -- are we going to go to a pool room with only 7ft tables? I too love 9ft tables. I had a choice, and I chose 9ft. When I go to pool rooms, I play on 9ft tables only. I wouldn't go to a room with 35 seven footers and only 5 nine footers. I don't think it would be my kind of place. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't believe the majority of pool rooms industry wide are going to be 7ft tables in the future. JMHO. Thanks.

 

[skogstokig]

atleast in this country

europe and asia arent falling over themselves to rush out the big tables and bring in the small ones

minus england where they play alot of both 6fters and snooker tables

6ft is crazy.. but no doubt their bars are crammy and city real estate is an issue in the UK more than in mainland europe. i've seen another table for even smaller spaces, where one short end is pushed against the wall and the pockets are in the table along with pins

 

[Colonel]

What percentage of places to play pool have 7ft tables vs something else?

7ft tables are the future. More revenue per square foot.

That’s not a very valid argument. Let me give you an analogy. There are far more McDonald’s serving slop than there are Mom & Pop diners serving real food but it doesn’t make me ever want to eat a Big Mac or consider calling it food.

No, they aren’t the future, but if you think they are, and think that playing on them makes you a pool player, then you’re entitled to indulge in that fantasy. I mean after all, Pinocchio thought he was a real boy.

 

[Thresh]

That’s not a very valid argument. Let me give you an analogy. There are far more McDonald’s serving slop than there are Mom & Pop diners serving real food but it doesn’t make me ever want to eat a Big Mac or consider calling it food.

No, they aren’t the future, but if you think they are, and think that playing on them makes you a pool player, then you’re entitled to indulge in that fantasy. I mean after all, Pinocchio thought he was a real boy.

Your pretty fucked up in the head aren't you?

Your analogy makes no sense and is irrelevant. Quality of food between two restaurants? WTF does that have to do with a pool table?

You know what the difference between the quality of a 7ft diamond and a 9ft diamond table is? 2ft x 1ft.

Yes businesses need to make money. They pay rent based on square feet each month.

What brings in more money, more tables or less tables? It's not a trick question.

A business needs bodies to make money. More bodies = more opportunity to make money. For every 10 people 2 play the slot machines. 4 order food. 6 get a few drinks.

Get 9ft tables want a few old guys play one pocket and spend nothing, or a pool pro wanna be practice at a table by himself and get 1 bottle of water.


But hey, instead of discussing economics, which is what I talked about, you talked about quality of food and why you don't like McDonald's. Which is a weird analogy being that McDonald's is one of the most successful food chains in the world, which if your analogy made any sense, you would have just proved my point.


Thanks.

 

[Thresh]

While I respect your answer to my question, which was "yes" -- your opinion as to why your answer is correct, well, that I respectfully disagree with. What you portrayed about more 7ft tables in a space than 9ft tables is not economics. That's math. Math will certainly, absolutely, tell us that you can fit more 7ft tables into a space than 9 ft tables. Simple math. Simple mathematical fact. However, that's where the math ends. That has nothing to do with economics. Revenue, the results that come from either scenario, is completely a different story. Sure you have more tables with 7 footers, but who is to say they will generate more revenue than the 9 footers over time. Who is to say the pool rooms with 9ft tables won't be more popular, and last longer, than the ones with 7ft tables. Regardless, after the math fact, from that point, it's a fallacious discussion. Too many hypotheticals.

That said, where I come from, and in this area of the Northeast (let's say, NY, NJ, CT, PA), I think the opposite is true. Most of the pool rooms I have gone to have more 9ft tables than 7ft tables. Let others from this area tell me I am mistaken. With all variables being equal, except the tables, I would think that pool rooms with 9 foot tables will have a better chance to survive than pool rooms with 7 foot tables. One-timers and the once in a while players may prefer a 7ft table. But those aren't the players who are going to be your regulars and allow your pool room to survive over time. Regular pool players, players who play weekly or more, serious pool players, players like the members on this board -- like you and me, as you said you love 9ft tables, you have one at home, and so do I -- are we going to go to a pool room with only 7ft tables? I too love 9ft tables. I had a choice, and I chose 9ft. When I go to pool rooms, I play on 9ft tables only. I wouldn't go to a room with 35 seven footers and only 5 nine footers. I don't think it would be my kind of place. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't believe the majority of pool rooms industry wide are going to be 7ft tables in the future. JMHO. Thanks.

You think a pool table company sells more 7ft tables or 9ft each year?

Economics is math... Like literally... Have you taken an economics class? No subject does not come without a math formula.

Does a business with pool tables generate income other than pool tables (food, drinks, slot machines)?

Food, drinks, slot machines can easily be a majority of revenue. If you want that revenue to increase, you need more people in your establishment.

More tables I think we can agree would equal more people? More people = opportunity for revenue.

If your running a business, you need as many people as possible with wallets full of cash in your place.

You want APA league in your place? If you have 9ft tables then it has to be an in house league. You cannot have a visiting team that plays on 7ft tables go play on 9ft tables it's a home field advantage and literally against the rules.

Your average pool player is not looking for a tough 9ft table to play on. Your average pool player is an APA 4 that takes 5 innings on average on a 7ft table.

If you can run a place with all 9ft tables with a bunch of dedicated pool players, good for you. If you want to run a successful business, you are much better off with 7ft tables. Appealing the a larger customer base is usually a safer bet than specializing to a smaller population.

 

[PoolPlayerNNJ]

You think a pool table company sells more 7ft tables or 9ft each year?

Economics is math... Like literally... Have you taken an economics class? No subject does not come without a math formula.

Does a business with pool tables generate income other than pool tables (food, drinks, slot machines)?

Food, drinks, slot machines can easily be a majority of revenue. If you want that revenue to increase, you need more people in your establishment.

More tables I think we can agree would equal more people? More people = opportunity for revenue.

If your running a business, you need as many people as possible with wallets full of cash in your place.

You want APA league in your place? If you have 9ft tables then it has to be an in house league. You cannot have a visiting team that plays on 7ft tables go play on 9ft tables it's a home field advantage and literally against the rules.

Your average pool player is not looking for a tough 9ft table to play on. Your average pool player is an APA 4 that takes 5 innings on average on a 7ft table.

If you can run a place with all 9ft tables with a bunch of dedicated pool players, good for you. If you want to run a successful business, you are much better off with 7ft tables. Appealing the a larger customer base is usually a safer bet than specializing to a smaller population.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[briankenobi]

You think a pool table company sells more 7ft tables or 9ft each year?

Economics is math... Like literally... Have you taken an economics class? No subject does not come without a math formula.

Does a business with pool tables generate income other than pool tables (food, drinks, slot machines)?

Food, drinks, slot machines can easily be a majority of revenue. If you want that revenue to increase, you need more people in your establishment.

More tables I think we can agree would equal more people? More people = opportunity for revenue.

If your running a business, you need as many people as possible with wallets full of cash in your place.

You want APA league in your place? If you have 9ft tables then it has to be an in house league. You cannot have a visiting team that plays on 7ft tables go play on 9ft tables it's a home field advantage and literally against the rules.

Your average pool player is not looking for a tough 9ft table to play on. Your average pool player is an APA 4 that takes 5 innings on average on a 7ft table.

If you can run a place with all 9ft tables with a bunch of dedicated pool players, good for you. If you want to run a successful business, you are much better off with 7ft tables. Appealing the a larger customer base is usually a safer bet than specializing to a smaller population.

You are dead on with your observation and math is economics. Having an APA league in your room generates more revenue for the room that ANYTHING ELSE pool related. While APA has its faults, they bring business and they bring people who will buy food and buy alcohol. We saw this at the pool room I helped out with before it closed. You host a tournament for the high skilled players and the players mostly buy pop and water. You host an APA tournament and you make way more on alcohol. That is the just the reality of the situation. But it is also geographic. The northeast is mostly 9 ft tables and it works for them. However, that is not the norm everywhere else. You go with what demographic you have around you and if the 7ft tables are making you the most money, then you focus on them. It's just simple economics.

 

[rexus31]

You want APA league in your place? If you have 9ft tables then it has to be an in house league. You cannot have a visiting team that plays on 7ft tables go play on 9ft tables it's a home field advantage and literally against the rules.

Is the something new or left to the discretion of the League Operator? When I played APA about 5-6 years ago here in So Cal, we played on 7', 8'and 9' tables; traveling league. There were no rules on equipment size.

 

[fastone371]

They are not junk. I saw them up close and played on them. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm glad for the competition. I'm glad someone is making a table that plays proper. I don't care if they are made on the moon or if they subcontract out, or if they private label. They play proper is all I care about.

The Predator is a fine table if someone wants to buy. That's my review. I stand by it.

I saw Predators new table at our "open" 2 years ago, I cant remember what they called the tournament but it was the 10 ball spot shot format. My opinion seeing them in person is completely opposite of yours. I got more of a feeling that the new Predator was more on level with a Valley than a Diamond. While I have no problem with Diamond tables and quite like them ( I'm not sure why anyone would want every pool table to play exactly the same) I do own a modified GCI and would not trade it for a Diamond. The only way my GCI leaves is if someone drops off an Anniversary in its place. Just an opinion, we all have them.

 

[fastone371]

While I respect your answer to my question, which was "yes" -- your opinion as to why your answer is correct, well, that I respectfully disagree with. What you portrayed about more 7ft tables in a space than 9ft tables is not economics. That's math. Math will certainly, absolutely, tell us that you can fit more 7ft tables into a space than 9 ft tables. Simple math. Simple mathematical fact. However, that's where the math ends. That has nothing to do with economics. Revenue, the results that come from either scenario, is completely a different story. Sure you have more tables with 7 footers, but who is to say they will generate more revenue than the 9 footers over time. Who is to say the pool rooms with 9ft tables won't be more popular, and last longer, than the ones with 7ft tables. Regardless, after the math fact, from that point, it's a fallacious discussion. Too many hypotheticals.

That said, where I come from, and in this area of the Northeast (let's say, NY, NJ, CT, PA), I think the opposite is true. Most of the pool rooms I have gone to have more 9ft tables than 7ft tables. Let others from this area tell me I am mistaken. With all variables being equal, except the tables, I would think that pool rooms with 9 foot tables will have a better chance to survive than pool rooms with 7 foot tables. One-timers and the once in a while players may prefer a 7ft table. But those aren't the players who are going to be your regulars and allow your pool room to survive over time. Regular pool players, players who play weekly or more, serious pool players, players like the members on this board -- like you and me, as you said you love 9ft tables, you have one at home, and so do I -- are we going to go to a pool room with only 7ft tables? I too love 9ft tables. I had a choice, and I chose 9ft. When I go to pool rooms, I play on 9ft tables only. I wouldn't go to a room with 35 seven footers and only 5 nine footers. I don't think it would be my kind of place. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I don't believe the majority of pool rooms industry wide are going to be 7ft tables in the future. JMHO. Thanks.

I think its mostly geographical. I'm in WI, the first tournament that I played in that was held in a "pool room" and not a bar was played on 7' tables. The 9' tables were used to hold our cues and cases. I was shocked to say the least. I have a 9' table at home, I was excited about this particular tournament because I had incorrectly assumed we would be playing on 9' tables. My home table is a 9' GCI with 4 1/2" pockets, Simonis, new rails, etc, its a very nice table. A lot of people who I used to shoot league with didnt want to play on my table because it was "too big".

 

[Thresh]

Is the something new or left to the discretion of the League Operator? When I played APA about 5-6 years ago here in So Cal, we played on 7', 8'and 9' tables; traveling league. There were no rules on equipment size.

My league op made it seem like it was a national thing because one team would have a clear home field advantage over others who normally play on 7s.

What he said most definitely applied to his territory for sure.