he does his best to encourage it :thumbup: Dont be so sure dr will agree with everything you say these days
shotmaker test
- Thread starter theUBC
- Start date
he does his best to encourage it :thumbup: Dont be so sure dr will agree with everything you say these days
PJ and I usually agree on most substantive things. For example, I'm sure he would agree with me that "aiming systems" like the various versions of CTE do offer many benefits to some people.Dont be so sure dr will agree with everything you say these days
Regards,
Dave
Of course. I even plan to post about that one day soon (if I "live" that long), pointing out that anybody can benefit from some aspects of CTE - but these aspects tend to get buried in the wars between the "CTE is God" and the "CTE is the Devil" entrenchments.
pj
chgo
not sure if you were still following these threads while you were gone, but things have changed since you last were here...good luck and try not to bring up stuff that has been settled already
and i would gladly take you on any cte debate you want and you can have dr dave helping you out too 
Noone out there that gave this test a try...?
Funny- everyone is talking about bad economy but if you get something for free (at least no money) it seems as nobody puts in any effort.
Anyone who gives my test a try and posts it here via youtube, gets a free book/video from me (the see-system)...
Doing the test on one side is ok.
Best one of all videos posted gets a free lesson by Darren Appleton and me...
I know that player of any level can get some good information for himself by doing this test...
Anyway
keep hitting them:thumbup:
Funny- everyone is talking about bad economy but if you get something for free (at least no money) it seems as nobody puts in any effort.
Anyone who gives my test a try and posts it here via youtube, gets a free book/video from me (the see-system)...
Doing the test on one side is ok.
Best one of all videos posted gets a free lesson by Darren Appleton and me...
I know that player of any level can get some good information for himself by doing this test...
Anyway
keep hitting them:thumbup:
Havnt had time to yet....does it pay double if i beat your score..:grin:
PJ,
Welcome back! I look forward to exchanging some info with you occasionally. In the meantime, here is a safer, useful link when you find yourself at a loss for words.
Best,
Mike
There's a pretty big deadline at work for me, my mental focus isn't really there to do this drill - though I did set up a few shots and shot them at various speeds/cue-positions.
There is a difference in how the balls react - but I'm sticking with my original theory. When I hit a half-ball hit with table roll/follow the OB skids forwards before going on it's path, causing a miss - every time.
Now, I was not playing with freshly polished balls or a freshly cleaned table, so... which is the average for my area. Having clean ... anything is something of a novelty unfortunately.
I will come back to this drill, if for no other reason, just to add another drill to my collection. I'll try to make sure to get video of too.
OK, so I bit the bullet and did this today. Only had an hour or two, so after warming up for a bit I tried it. I was rushing a bit on some shots, and just not feeling comfortable at the table for the past week or two, but I don't have a table at home so gotta take advantage of the time I have out.
I broke it up into 2 sections to post it, as luck would have it on the second section (balls 5 - 8) my phone died and it didn't save any of the recording. I'll try again next time I get out, maybe even try the first part again too to see if I can do a little better. I can tell you I made 3 on the 5 ball, 3 on the 6 ball, 2 on the 7 ball, and none on the 8, although 1 was going in and the cueball got in the way. That 8 ball is tough...
Nice test, always interesting how changes in spin, speed, and distance require adjustments to the aim point.
Scott
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eFHJCbCW7k
I broke it up into 2 sections to post it, as luck would have it on the second section (balls 5 - 8) my phone died and it didn't save any of the recording. I'll try again next time I get out, maybe even try the first part again too to see if I can do a little better. I can tell you I made 3 on the 5 ball, 3 on the 6 ball, 2 on the 7 ball, and none on the 8, although 1 was going in and the cueball got in the way. That 8 ball is tough...
Nice test, always interesting how changes in spin, speed, and distance require adjustments to the aim point.
Scott
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eFHJCbCW7k
It's angle dependent... If you want to see it in all it's glory shoot a bunch of halfball hits... The dreaded skid happens most often on that angle and you will get it with draw or stun...... Smaller angles cit doesn't happen but sit will... thinner cuts you likely wont get much deference unless you slow the speed wayyyyyyyyy down
FYI, a complete summary of all throw effects, including the ones you list (along with many more), can be found here (see items 15 through 35 in the list below the videos and diagram):
Regards,
Dave
Nice scott
Bit that hard bullet...
You are the first that postet a video... You got balls!!!
Just for training/learning purposes reshot every missed shot until you make it- if you miss the same ball 3 skip on to the next ball. As you have my book already ( I think)
You will get my new dvd that will be released in may for free!
Ekkes
Bit that hard bullet...
You are the first that postet a video... You got balls!!!
Just for training/learning purposes reshot every missed shot until you make it- if you miss the same ball 3 skip on to the next ball. As you have my book already ( I think)
You will get my new dvd that will be released in may for free!
Ekkes
Ekkes I have been sick as crap for weeks now but Friday I have plans to play most of the day..... I'll try and film the drill if at all possible...
Just everyone be kind because the diamond I'll be trying it on came straight from the US Open a few years ago and feasts on ANY precision errors....
BTW am still working thru the SEE system... kind of having to start over since I haven't been able to hit balls for awhile but Yesterday was the first day I had hit balls on a 9ft diamond since before xmas and anything between 0 degrees and half ball I owned........
Just everyone be kind because the diamond I'll be trying it on came straight from the US Open a few years ago and feasts on ANY precision errors....
BTW am still working thru the SEE system... kind of having to start over since I haven't been able to hit balls for awhile but Yesterday was the first day I had hit balls on a 9ft diamond since before xmas and anything between 0 degrees and half ball I owned........
Thanks Ekkes, will look forward to the DVD!
I like the test. The 8 ball is a bit ridiculous, and even the 7 might not come up much if at all, but everything else should be makeable at various speeds and spins pretty consistently. I think I could have done a bit better, would love to do it again once I get my stroke issues sorted out, certainly not what you want when shooting on the Diamonds...
If I manage to recapture 5 - 8 tonight I'll post that as well.
Scott
I like the test. The 8 ball is a bit ridiculous, and even the 7 might not come up much if at all, but everything else should be makeable at various speeds and spins pretty consistently. I think I could have done a bit better, would love to do it again once I get my stroke issues sorted out, certainly not what you want when shooting on the Diamonds...
If I manage to recapture 5 - 8 tonight I'll post that as well.
Scott
Hi!
I finally found some free time the other night for trying Ekkes shotmaker test.
As if the test was not difficult enough by itself, I thought to make it even more difficult (by mistake of course lol) and I shot all the short distance shots 1 to 8 also with draw (though the test only mentioned stun and follow), plus I tried to shoot the 7 and 8 shots with stun as well, although Ekkes in his video skipped the stun for these 2 very difficult shots - he's right, stun makes these 2 cuts almost impossible, though I think I did it once in my video (when shooting the 7 shot).
It's a very interesting test - I think anyone can learn a lot from shooting these shots with follow/draw/stun. I never thought that the same shot / same angle must be shot differently (unless english is used), but now I noticed clearly how much stun throws the ball...probably before I was adjusting from experience, but I never noticed...
It was also a test for me to learn how to upload a video on youtube - never did it before. I had to learn how to use a program (mkv merge) in order to cut my initial 2.8 giga / 40 minutes video into 3 parts because youtube only allows 1 giga / 15 minutes per upload.
I will retry the test next week for sure, and I will only shoot the shots that ekkes did in his video (no draw for small distance shots and no stun for 7 and 8 shots), in order to try and keep my mistakes below 20, similar with Ekkes. I'm pretty optimistic that I can do it. But I still post this first test anyway, despite the high number of mistakes I did.
Also please excuse the quality of the video (cheap camera) and my commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM4ICL2_E4&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1btk17jcPw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9YMXO9iKBw&feature=youtu.be
Thank you for bringing this test to our attention Ekkes, I understood a lot from doing it! (and I learnt how to upload on youtube as well lol)
Mihnea
I finally found some free time the other night for trying Ekkes shotmaker test.
As if the test was not difficult enough by itself, I thought to make it even more difficult (by mistake of course lol) and I shot all the short distance shots 1 to 8 also with draw (though the test only mentioned stun and follow), plus I tried to shoot the 7 and 8 shots with stun as well, although Ekkes in his video skipped the stun for these 2 very difficult shots - he's right, stun makes these 2 cuts almost impossible, though I think I did it once in my video (when shooting the 7 shot).
It's a very interesting test - I think anyone can learn a lot from shooting these shots with follow/draw/stun. I never thought that the same shot / same angle must be shot differently (unless english is used), but now I noticed clearly how much stun throws the ball...probably before I was adjusting from experience, but I never noticed...
It was also a test for me to learn how to upload a video on youtube - never did it before. I had to learn how to use a program (mkv merge) in order to cut my initial 2.8 giga / 40 minutes video into 3 parts because youtube only allows 1 giga / 15 minutes per upload.
I will retry the test next week for sure, and I will only shoot the shots that ekkes did in his video (no draw for small distance shots and no stun for 7 and 8 shots), in order to try and keep my mistakes below 20, similar with Ekkes. I'm pretty optimistic that I can do it. But I still post this first test anyway, despite the high number of mistakes I did.
Also please excuse the quality of the video (cheap camera) and my commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JM4ICL2_E4&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1btk17jcPw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9YMXO9iKBw&feature=youtu.be
Thank you for bringing this test to our attention Ekkes, I understood a lot from doing it! (and I learnt how to upload on youtube as well lol)
Mihnea
I have just seen this and will take it to the table to try. Not so much for the See System, but because it looks a very fair and true test of a players ability
As mentioned I had time today to redo balls 5 - 8. I also reshot balls 1 - 4, did a little better than the other day.
I'm actually going to make shots 1 - 6 part of my periodic practice. Those representative angles come up often, and being able to make them confidently requires good aiming, fundamentals, and focus. I found that most of my misses were caused by rushing through some part of the process. Some of that was attributed in trying to get each section done in less than 10 minutes, but it sure happens in my normal game as well.
Have to ingrain that mantra - don't shoot until there is no doubt that you will make the ball. Can't tell you how many shots I shoot in a night where I'm not sure but I shoot it anyway, that might be okay in practice to see what happens but when practice-playing or competition it's horrible and I do it then too...
Thanks again Ekkes for the test!
Scott
1-4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4rUIRoHt4o
5-8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLP_RdUKbrI
I'm actually going to make shots 1 - 6 part of my periodic practice. Those representative angles come up often, and being able to make them confidently requires good aiming, fundamentals, and focus. I found that most of my misses were caused by rushing through some part of the process. Some of that was attributed in trying to get each section done in less than 10 minutes, but it sure happens in my normal game as well.
Have to ingrain that mantra - don't shoot until there is no doubt that you will make the ball. Can't tell you how many shots I shoot in a night where I'm not sure but I shoot it anyway, that might be okay in practice to see what happens but when practice-playing or competition it's horrible and I do it then too...
Thanks again Ekkes for the test!
Scott
1-4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4rUIRoHt4o
5-8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLP_RdUKbrI
As mentioned I had time today to redo balls 5 - 8. I also reshot balls 1 - 4, did a little better than the other day.
I'm actually going to make shots 1 - 6 part of my periodic practice. Those representative angles come up often, and being able to make them confidently requires good aiming, fundamentals, and focus. I found that most of my misses were caused by rushing through some part of the process. Some of that was attributed in trying to get each section done in less than 10 minutes, but it sure happens in my normal game as well.
Have to ingrain that mantra - don't shoot until there is no doubt that you will make the ball. Can't tell you how many shots I shoot in a night where I'm not sure but I shoot it anyway, that might be okay in practice to see what happens but when practice-playing or competition it's horrible and I do it then too...
Thanks again Ekkes for the test!
Scott
1-4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4rUIRoHt4o
5-8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLP_RdUKbrI
NEVER shoot a ball, if you are not 100% sure to make it or if you have ANY negative thought!
This is a great example why the PAUSE is extemly important-also called *point of no return*. This is really something you should include into your PSR my friend
have a smooth stroke,
Ingo
OK all you guys that tried the test:
you move pool!
That's the way it has to be! Train conciously until your experiences lead you to be able to shoot the same shot unconsciously.
Beeing unsure to make a ball is human and a very important expierience!!!
It means, that you are unsure. This is just because you don't have enough expierience with making that kind of a ball- or that you have too many bad experiences (have missed that balls for a thousend times already)
In both cases it is important to build a positive conscious fundament.
This you can do by shooting the same shot again and after having missed it three times skip to another ball that you can make pretty easily.
for example: try to make your problem ball 10 times. When you have missed this balls 3 times (all in all within your tries/ not in a row) skip to an easy ball and shoot it consciously in 4 out of 5 times/ if you are not able to do that choose an easier ball next time
You can alternate with different easy balls.
After having succeeded to do that go back to your problem ball and redo the procedere. Pay consciously attention to your misses. Do you miss it by undercutting it or overcutting it. Or was your miss due to your stroke.
When you think you found out what your problem was, try to only change one thing. (aim thinner if you undercut the ball) stay with your stroke. If you still undercut change a second part (stay with your adopted new cut angle and raise the speed of your stroke (if you overcut go down with your speed) until you make the ball consciously and more consistently and try to stay with it.
After a few training innings you will be SURE to make the ball! First consciously and after a certain time UNCONSCIOUSLY!
In a next step you can try to master the shot with different kind of spins/english.
Now- important is to know when the same balls comes up in a match, to know what kind of angle it approximatlely was to be sure to hit it the same kind of angles the same way.
Here is a link to a document how to see the angles.
https://fotoalbum.web.de/ui/external/D3TtU4CbR-i_DWxE5MGe-Q75803
Password/PIN that you need to get to the document is: SEE
You can download the document if you like to
:thumbup:EKKES
you move pool!
That's the way it has to be! Train conciously until your experiences lead you to be able to shoot the same shot unconsciously.
Beeing unsure to make a ball is human and a very important expierience!!!
It means, that you are unsure. This is just because you don't have enough expierience with making that kind of a ball- or that you have too many bad experiences (have missed that balls for a thousend times already)
In both cases it is important to build a positive conscious fundament.
This you can do by shooting the same shot again and after having missed it three times skip to another ball that you can make pretty easily.
for example: try to make your problem ball 10 times. When you have missed this balls 3 times (all in all within your tries/ not in a row) skip to an easy ball and shoot it consciously in 4 out of 5 times/ if you are not able to do that choose an easier ball next time
You can alternate with different easy balls.
After having succeeded to do that go back to your problem ball and redo the procedere. Pay consciously attention to your misses. Do you miss it by undercutting it or overcutting it. Or was your miss due to your stroke.
When you think you found out what your problem was, try to only change one thing. (aim thinner if you undercut the ball) stay with your stroke. If you still undercut change a second part (stay with your adopted new cut angle and raise the speed of your stroke (if you overcut go down with your speed) until you make the ball consciously and more consistently and try to stay with it.
After a few training innings you will be SURE to make the ball! First consciously and after a certain time UNCONSCIOUSLY!
In a next step you can try to master the shot with different kind of spins/english.
Now- important is to know when the same balls comes up in a match, to know what kind of angle it approximatlely was to be sure to hit it the same kind of angles the same way.
Here is a link to a document how to see the angles.
https://fotoalbum.web.de/ui/external/D3TtU4CbR-i_DWxE5MGe-Q75803
Password/PIN that you need to get to the document is: SEE
You can download the document if you like to
:thumbup:EKKES
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