drivermaker
Banned
Colin Colenso said:
I thought that would have been Greg Norman.....
the 4 best pool players ever
- Thread starter scorpionjohnny
- Start date
I thought that would have been Greg Norman.....
Colin Colenso said:sjm,
Why do you have to start stirring up trouble with logical arguments and information
btw: What the heck is - 27 - 11 with an ERA of 1.95.
And a question for you if you don't mind: In Australia Walter Lindrum is considered one of our greatest ever sporting legends. Is his story known at all among US circles? I never see a mention of him here when it comes to great past players.
Well, 27- 11 means 27 wins and 11 losses and 1.95 earned run average means that in a typical 9 innnings (the length of a baseball game in these parts) he permitted just under 2 runs. An ERA of under three is considered exceptional, but under two is very rare indeed, so Christy Matthewson's stats are simply off the charts.
Lindrum sure payed a long, long time ago (in the Greenleaf era, I think). His name is well known to me, but billiard players of yesteryear aren't very well known among pool enthusasts in the US.. Certainly, Willie Hoppe is well known, but even some of the bigger names in billiards history like Walter Lindrum, Welker Cohcran, and Raymond Ceulemans are not known to most pool players in America.
Colin, did Lindrum play pool? I've only heard of him as a billiards player, a striaght rail specialist.
Yeah, Greg's amongst our greats...shame he started cracking like a dozen eggs later in his career.drivermaker said:
For any interested in the story of Walter Lindrum, arguably the best ever English Billiards player, here's a good story about him.
http://www.eaba.co.uk/articles/walterLindrum/walterLindrumProfile.html
Thanks to both of you for the feedback.sjm said:
27-11 seems like not many games over 12 years though.
Re: Lindrum and pool. I've never heard of him playing that. He was a nursery cannon genius. The story I posted above should be a fun read, even for those who don't understand English billiards.
btw. English Billiards was the main game I played at home from 8 years old to 18. I wasn't great, but I learned how to get whitey around the table pretty well. I believe that helped a lot when I took up pool.
sjm said:
I agree with you that the likes of DeOro, Taberski, and Greenleaf are losing their "greatness" as the people who have seen them play die off. But these three players dominated pool for 25 years.
Some other baseball analogies since you're obviously a fan...
A pitcher would have to AVERAGE 25 wins a year for 21 years to break Cy Youngs win record
A pitcher would have to AVERAGE 300 strike outs a year for 20 years to break Nolan Ryan's record
Ted Williams never struckout more than 64 times (his rookie year) in his career Alex Rodriguez' has never struckout less than 99 times in a full season
And lastly, Ty Cobb batted over 400 three times, the last time someone batted over 400 was 1946.
Just some points that as time goes on...greatness is forgotten...
Jim
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
Colin Colenso said:
Thanks to Robert Byrne, Walter Lindrum's story has been conveyed here in the states, but probably to only a very small minority who are readers of either Byrne's Billiards Digest columns or Byrne's "Advanced Book of Pool and Billiards."
Fred <~~~ will always add Lindrum's name to a "greatest cueists" list
Good on Robert Byrnes.Fred Agnir said:
I've had his Advanced Billiards Techniques for years. I certainly learned a lot from that book. There has been little produced in the English cueist world that comes close to comparison.
Quote from CELTIC:
"Do this poll in 50 years and I would be willing to bet..."
CELTIC is absolutely right. You Efren idolaters ought to be ashamed of yourselves for even entertaining the thought that he is the greatest all-around pool player ever. So what if he beat Strickland in the Color of Money I and II? That doesn't count because Earl was mighty pissed off about the playing conditions and just about everything else during those matches. So what if he thrashed Sigel one-on-one over different pool games at Hard Times? That doesn't count either because Mike just got fed up with pool and quit. Archer saying Efren is the best all-around player he ever played? Doesn't count, you dummies, because Johnny must have been dazed saying that after a few bouts with Efren. Efren excelling at rotation and 3cushion? Who the hell cares? Mosconi and the rest of CELTIC's heroes did not play those games. Daryl Peach claiming Efren beat O'Sullivan and White in 5 sets of snooker, scoring 3 centuries and using his pool cue at that? Of course, that doesn't count because Ronnie and Jimmy were just being gracious hosts to Efren who was their guest in England. Efren winning the Master of the Table titles the last 3 times he entered the DCC? Doesn't count because Cliff Joyner and the others conspired to let him win. Other top guns asking for ridiculous spots from him at money games? Oh, that's just their way of humoring him and puffing up his ego. A Billiards Digest popular poll naming him as the greatest pool player ever? Doesn't count, guys, that poll was rigged. Top search engine Google turning up more pages about Efren than any other pool player? Screw Google, they don't even know how to search for the right names. More than half of his fellow players voting for him as their favorite player at the world 9ball championships every year? That has nothing to do with their respect for Efren's skills, they voted that way to spite another player. Perennial top of the prize money lists? What's money, like love, got to do with it? A poll among the pros listing him ahead of all others, dead or alive, as greatest all-around? What do the pros know that CELTIC doesn't know better?
Yes, yes, 50 years from now nobody will remember Efren, because we will all be dead. Except CELTIC who - sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything - will still be around tearing up "false" stories about a legend called Efren Reyes, still as deaf and blind as ever to the truth that even now continues to be heard and seen by other men.
"Do this poll in 50 years and I would be willing to bet..."
CELTIC is absolutely right. You Efren idolaters ought to be ashamed of yourselves for even entertaining the thought that he is the greatest all-around pool player ever. So what if he beat Strickland in the Color of Money I and II? That doesn't count because Earl was mighty pissed off about the playing conditions and just about everything else during those matches. So what if he thrashed Sigel one-on-one over different pool games at Hard Times? That doesn't count either because Mike just got fed up with pool and quit. Archer saying Efren is the best all-around player he ever played? Doesn't count, you dummies, because Johnny must have been dazed saying that after a few bouts with Efren. Efren excelling at rotation and 3cushion? Who the hell cares? Mosconi and the rest of CELTIC's heroes did not play those games. Daryl Peach claiming Efren beat O'Sullivan and White in 5 sets of snooker, scoring 3 centuries and using his pool cue at that? Of course, that doesn't count because Ronnie and Jimmy were just being gracious hosts to Efren who was their guest in England. Efren winning the Master of the Table titles the last 3 times he entered the DCC? Doesn't count because Cliff Joyner and the others conspired to let him win. Other top guns asking for ridiculous spots from him at money games? Oh, that's just their way of humoring him and puffing up his ego. A Billiards Digest popular poll naming him as the greatest pool player ever? Doesn't count, guys, that poll was rigged. Top search engine Google turning up more pages about Efren than any other pool player? Screw Google, they don't even know how to search for the right names. More than half of his fellow players voting for him as their favorite player at the world 9ball championships every year? That has nothing to do with their respect for Efren's skills, they voted that way to spite another player. Perennial top of the prize money lists? What's money, like love, got to do with it? A poll among the pros listing him ahead of all others, dead or alive, as greatest all-around? What do the pros know that CELTIC doesn't know better?
Yes, yes, 50 years from now nobody will remember Efren, because we will all be dead. Except CELTIC who - sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything - will still be around tearing up "false" stories about a legend called Efren Reyes, still as deaf and blind as ever to the truth that even now continues to be heard and seen by other men.
RED NAXELA said:
Hey smart guy, Mosconi played carom billiards against the top players. He was also a top 9-ball player despite the fact the game of the day was straight pool. You clearly know alot about your idol Reyes but you know shit about anyone else and that is made clear in your post.
At least I KNOW what Efren has done and actually read about the past players and seek out any video of them I can find before making my claims unlike an ignorant person such as yourself who judges Efren the best without knowing anything at all about any players of the past.
To CELTIC:
You've done all that and still cannot see? You should see your eye doctor.
You've done all that and still cannot see? You should see your eye doctor.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
whitewolf said:Whitewolf
DooDoo Daddy
Fred
Ton 'O Fun
Heh Voodo, how in the hell can you even fit in that VW?
Your such a douche bag...
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wow...well said!RED NAXELA said:
For my money, the best players ever are:
Don Willis
James Evans
Luther Lassiter
Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
Don Willis
James Evans
Luther Lassiter
Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
mfinkelstein3 said:
Wow! If you've seen all of them play, I do hope you'll be posting here more often. Welcome to the forum!
Even as a fanatical pool-enthusiast of nealry forty years living in Evans' home town of NYC, the play of James Evans is, for me and so many others, entirely a matter of hearsay. John Ervolino, the only person I've ever known who claimed to have seen Evans play, spoke of him often, but the level at which Evans played is something of a mystery. Then again, Ervolino said that he played above his prize pupil Cisero Murphy, meaning Evans must have played jam up.
I guess the most noteworthy thing about your list is the implication that all the greatest pool players were in their primes at least forty years ago. I'd love to hear you give some more insight into this. Many of us on the forum are fascinated by comparison of the true old timers and the players of our own generation. What, in your opinion, made the players of yesteryear better than the stars of the last thirty years or so?