Tips of english or stroke?

[JB Cases]

I do.

The location of dead center changes with the elevation of the cue.

Try to hit the same spot you would hit with a level cue while your cue is vertical (masse).
We all know you can get some draw with a vertical cue.

I think you must have miss read Jaden's comment.

I didn't misread his comment but I think he might have misstated his point.

You have a sphere. In order to make that sphere spin in the opposite direction of the applied force you must hit it below center. In order for the spin to result in the sphere coming back to you it must hit something that either reflects it or have sufficient spin to allow the spin to grab the cloth just after impact with another ball or simply by friction alone as is the case with a reverse masse.

When the cue is addressing the sphere it can ONLY be hit it the center or off center. Hitting it IN the center results in no draw. The center of the cue ball is always fixed in relation to the cue tip addressing it. When we say hit center ball then there is only one center ball and it is the one we are facing when looking down the cue at the cue ball. No one speaks of center ball in relation to the table when speaking of spin application.

Therefore saying that it's possible to get draw by hitting center ball is not true in the way pool and billiard mechanics are spoken of. In fact I'd argue that it's not even really true the way I think Jaden means it. But there is no need to speak of planes because the only plane that has ever mattered is the one the cue is on and on that plane it is impossible to get true draw by hitting center ball. And I define draw for the purpose of this discussion as the cueball reversing after contact with another single ball to at least one full revolution's distance.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.. When we say hit center ball then there is only one center ball and it is the one we are facing when looking down the cue at the cue ball. No one speaks of center ball in relation to the table when speaking of spin application. ...

I agree with your sentiment but I disagree with your absolute statement.

I think the only reasonable way to define the center of the cue ball is as the center of the sphere, and I think the only reasonable way to define a "center ball hit" is one in which the (extended) axis of the cue stick passes through that point.

Where I disagree with your statement is your apparent assumption that everyone understands that approach and agrees with it. Lots of people don't understand the concept. I've met several of them.

 

[Mikjary]

Mike said:
"...I've studied video and broken down several different strokes the top players are using and found the poster child for this cueing technique to be Efren. We all know his ball spinning capabilities and have watched him get into some pretty tough position zones."...

I too studied Efren when he shot for a couple of years at the Hardtimes. I marveled how he was able to get top, draw and extreme english with his effortless stroke. He holds the butt very loosely and sends the cue forward without imparting much, if any, influence from his "grip". It's almost like gliding the cue forward to contact the CB with only the inertia of the cue. He can do this with a short follow through for slow shots and a longer follow through for more power.
He can get an inordinate amount of english regardless of the speed of the hit. I just figured that he didn't kill the hit by applying a stiff stroke into the CB. It was like the tip of the cue contacted the CB precisely and moved out of the way without added influence imparted to the CB.

A word that was often shared by Efren and his compadres from the Philipines was "spin" and they were able to get that CB spin to the rail with amazing results.

Hey, LAMas. Where you been? NPR? :wink:

Good post! Efren grips the cue in his warm up strokes cradled in his first (index) finger, and opens his hand on his finish. It looks like he really lets the cue do all the work. In between the start and finish is what I've been looking at in his stroke.

I've noticed several similarities to Bustamante's stroke, although they look quite different. There are key points they do that I've also noticed many of the top pros use. Not so much on an average stroke, but more when they have to apply a lot of stroke to the shot.

One of these key points is obviously the length of follow through on different shots where more or less stroke is involved. Intuitively we think that follow through is proportional to the amount of stroke needed. A longer stroke means more spin.

If you watch Alex, he has a fairly long bridge length and you would assume a longer stroke. He actually has a short stroke and applies quite a bit of "quick" spin to the cue ball. The Pinoys are very good with this stroke (Parica was the first I saw) and have collaborated to perfect it.

Busty's windup is famous. We think he's got a fast and loose delivery, too. Take a closer look when he gets down to business and really strokes the ball. There's a lot less moving parts than you would think and check out his follow through technique.

These strokes are made for the faster cloth. When I came back to the game after a twenty year hiatus, I realized the long power stroke was a thing of the past. If you needed to spin the cue ball, you hit it softer because the speed would send the cue ball like a rocket away from your object ball. The newer balls aren't affected as much by the throw at higher speeds, also. You had to shoot softer with "quick" spin to get the same reactions.

I'm still trying to figure out how Efren, cueing fairly close to center ball, can get as much spin as he does. I'm speaking about close quarters spin where he doesn't have a lot of room to maneuver the cue ball and has to move it quickly before it deflects and hits other balls.

A clue is the last time I watched Shane play. He had just come back from a trip to Asia. His game had changed and he was employing this softer stroke. He struggled, but still played pretty strong. I wonder if he worked with anybody while he was there? Earl's game occasionally shows this influence, too. Though I wonder how with a 29 0unce cue! :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I'm still trying to figure out how Efren, cueing fairly close to center ball, can get as much spin as he does. I'm speaking about close quarters spin where he doesn't have a lot of room to maneuver the cue ball and has to move it quickly before it deflects and hits other balls.
...

There is a standard technique for increasing the quality of side spin by also hitting below the equator on the cue ball, but I suspect that's not what you mean. You seem to be looking for a magic technique. I think Efren gets a lot of spin on the ball by hitting well off-center, and there is nothing magic about the way he gets that spin.

If you want to learn soft finesse spin shots, I think the best way is to play simple carom billiards (straight rail) where you need a lot of those shots. Efren used to be a champion at that form of the game in the Philippines.

 

[Mikjary]

There is a standard technique for increasing the quality of side spin by also hitting below the equator on the cue ball, but I suspect that's not what you mean. You seem to be looking for a magic technique. I think Efren gets a lot of spin on the ball by hitting well off-center, and there is nothing magic about the way he gets that spin.

If you want to learn soft finesse spin shots, I think the best way is to play simple carom billiards (straight rail) where you need a lot of those shots. Efren used to be a champion at that form of the game in the Philippines.

I used to listen to comments like these and think that they know more than I do and I should just give it up and be part of the mediocrity. A good example was when my son played baseball in high school. I took him to hitting clinics and coaches who had the wisdom of the ages and they trained him to be a fairly good hitter. But I still had that nagging question in the back of my mind if there was more there than met the eye.

I spent a couple of years watching countless video and reading and listening to everything I could about the mental and physical sides of hitting a baseball. I had a bunch of books, magazines, cds, dvds and computer files on the subject. The problem was, they all said pretty much the same thing in different ways. The old accepted wisdom was good enough to get you there. Just work harder and become a fine tuned machine.

Eventually I found that "magic" :wink: technique...or rather "not magic" technique. All the pieces fell into place and I trained my son with it. He went from warning track power to hitting long home runs. He weighed only 160 pounds, but batted cleanup on a state championship team. I see this technique all the time when I watch MLB games. I never thought about it in the years prior even though I'd seen the exact same swings thousands of times before. It's amazing what a change a little knowledge will do for your insight.

I know that this was because I didn't give up on the research. All the collected knowledge about anything is not all there is. Learning all you can is a prerequsite in any activity, but don't stop there. There's a lot yet to be discovered and rediscovered. That's what a true student of any game is after.

Best,
Mike

 

[3kushn]

Its intersting your firm stance on this. Not ribbing you here. Its hard to imagine good follow without hitting above center but has me thinking.

The only thing I can think of with a slim chance of validity is a small low trajectary hop and the friction of the cloth adds a lot more top spin as it comes down on close range shots. Even if this would work what would be the advantage of the technique? Unless there's more friction @ contact than I can imagine.

Back to the science guys.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Eventually I found that "magic" :wink: technique...or rather "not magic" technique. All the pieces fell into place and I trained my son with it. He went from warning track power to hitting long home runs. He weighed only 160 pounds, but batted cleanup on a state championship team. I see this technique all the time when I watch MLB games. ...

I'm curious. What was the technique?

 

[Mikjary]

Its intersting your firm stance on this. Not ribbing you here. Its hard to imagine good follow without hitting above center but has me thinking.

The only thing I can think of with a slim chance of validity is a small low trajectary hop and the friction of the cloth adds a lot more top spin as it comes down on close range shots. Even if this would work what would be the advantage of the technique? Unless there's more friction @ contact than I can imagine.

Back to the science guys.

Actually, I said with a smaller tip placement above center than what is usually expected for force follow. I'm emphasizing an improvement on traditional knowledge or an accepted practice and looking for some feedback from other posters.

I was shown a couple of different strokes back in the 70's by a pro I travelled with and one of the techniques was very similar to my point. I used it mainly on bar tables with the bigger, heavier cue ball. This "magical" stroke wasn't known to me and in those days I kept things to myself by request. If he reads this he can reply as he is a member of this forum and posts rarely because of all the crap that goes on here.

Efren uses a variation of what I know and I was only hoping for a little insight from a R&D standpoint. I have no doubt that somebody will read this thread and squirm because they have the info and they don't want to feed the fish.:wink:

Case in point...I was looking through the archives and was reading an old thread about aiming. The OP said a few things about what he was doing different and hadn't missed a ball in a week or so. Of course he was immediately dismissed as a fanatic and condescendingly treated to a typical AZB welcome.

The thing was though, the method he was talking about was something I already knew because it had been told to me by a top player that ran with Buddy Hall. He cryptically described some things, but wouldn't give up the whole enchilada. I'd been working on it and was still looking for the remaining puzzle pieces when I noticed the thread.

One poster responded and added some information that I hadn't realized before about how he aims. Nobody paid much attention to this other poster, but I knew who he was. He was a strong road player years ago and was well known for his heart. His additional info has gotten me a little closer to my finished puzzle and I'm applying what I learned, along with a little help from certain pros.

Best,
Mike

 

[3kushn]

Actually, I said with a smaller tip placement above center than what is usually expected for force follow. I'm emphasizing an improvement on traditional knowledge or an accepted practice and looking for some feedback from other posters.

I was shown a couple of different strokes back in the 70's by a pro I travelled with and one of the techniques was very similar to my point. I used it mainly on bar tables with the bigger, heavier cue ball. This "magical" stroke wasn't known to me and in those days I kept things to myself by request. If he reads this he can reply as he is a member of this forum and posts rarely because of all the crap that goes on here.

Efren uses a variation of what I know and I was only hoping for a little insight from a R&D standpoint. I have no doubt that somebody will read this thread and squirm because they have the info and they don't want to feed the fish.:wink:

Case in point...I was looking through the archives and was reading an old thread about aiming. The OP said a few things about what he was doing different and hadn't missed a ball in a week or so. Of course he was immediately dismissed as a fanatic and condescendingly treated to a typical AZB welcome.

The thing was though, the method he was talking about was something I already knew because it had been told to me by a top player that ran with Buddy Hall. He cryptically described some things, but wouldn't give up the whole enchilada. I'd been working on it and was still looking for the remaining puzzle pieces when I noticed the thread.

One poster responded and added some information that I hadn't realized before about how he aims. Nobody paid much attention to this other poster, but I knew who he was. He was a strong road player years ago and was well known for his heart. His additional info has gotten me a little closer to my finished puzzle and I'm applying what I learned, along with a little help from certain pros.

Best,
Mike

Mikjary, I heard you about the smaller offset. Should have been more clear on that point. Jewett mentioned below the equator for max spin. My theory on that is we're hitting a smaller slice of the ball and the weight of the ball helps vs the same offset but, above center. This is also my thought with an upstroke (weight of the ball) for top spin, but thats been shot down many times here although I still use it for things I need to happen. Works for me so the heck with the experts on that point. So again I'm interested in this and not trying to degrade your thoughts. But rather trying to figure the puzzle.

 

[Mikjary]

Mikjary, I heard you about the smaller offset. Should have been more clear on that point. Jewett mentioned below the equator for max spin. My theory on that is we're hitting a smaller slice of the ball and the weight of the ball helps vs the same offset but, above center. This is also my thought with an upstroke (weight of the ball) for top spin, but thats been shot down many times here although I still use it for things I need to happen. Works for me so the heck with the experts on that point. So again I'm interested in this and not trying to degrade your thoughts. But rather trying to figure the puzzle.

I appreciate the offer. Your comments have always been welcome as far as I'm concerned.

As a billiards player, have you ever heard of the term, "digging into the cue ball"? It's more of a billiards term and was mentioned by Bob Jewett previously (though not by name) possibly as a variation of the stroke I was talking about.

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

I appreciate the offer. Your comments have always been welcome as far as I'm concerned.

As a billiards player, have you ever heard of the term, "digging into the cue ball"? It's more of a billiards term and was mentioned by Bob Jewett previously (though not by name) possibly as a variation of the stroke I was talking about.

Best,
Mike

Mike,
I've been wasting away on NPR trying to convince the Socialists to get off of the taxpayer's back.

I missed you're post:
Digging into the cue ball for side spin - 06-26-2011, 05:43 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Billiards players are known for digging into their cue ball for extreme english to avoid a miscue. Can this be done without elevating the back end of the cue stick?

Swerve can be done with a follow or draw stroke, but is this considered digging in? Efren digs into the cue ball and stays very close to center ball. He is also an accomplished billiards player and admits he spins the cue ball too much. I wish I had his faults.

Is a digging in stroke meant to avoid a miscue, or is it used to gain more spin or both? I dig in without moving the tip to the outside of the cue ball (back hand english) and follow through almost as if I am moving back to its center or straight ahead.

I can also curve slightly around object balls without elevating my cue when I use this stroke, about an eighth inch or so depending on the distance away. Another interesting thing is, it seems the closer I stay to center, the more spin I get.

Best,
Mike

Efren used to use a heavy cue, tight bridge, soft tip and a loose grip.

I used to use Elk Master soft tips years ago until I changed to the harder Le Pro that held it's shape longer.

In retrospect, I think that I was able to spin the CB better back then or was it the knappy felt before Simonis?

:wink::thumbup:

 

[JB Cases]

Regarding hitting the ball.

Here are three examples of professionals who get a lot out of the ball without seeming to hit it "hard".

Buddy Hall: I played him one pocket in Las Vegas and he stopped by our booth one time to play around with some jump shots using the jump cue. Buddy hits the ball smoothly, looks like he barely hits it. The cue ball glides across the table. For more than an hour I just marveled at Buddy's stroke and results.

When he stopped by and played with the jump cue he took a few practice swings and then let loose a series of shots that were incredible. But the thing that had us all mystified was HOW he hit the ball. The jump cue in his hands seemed to barely make a sound when it hit the ball. While everyone else would 'pop' it and the cue would make that irritating ruler-on-the-desk snapping noise, Buddy's stroke just flowed throw the ball and it would quietly hop over and continue like a normal shot.

Rafael Martinez: We hired Rafael to give two 8 hour clinics to our club team in Germany. One of the things he showed us was several different "strokes". He was demonstrating that there are different stroke techniques for different shots and expected results not a one-size-fits-all approach. Depending on what he wanted to do with the cue ball he would adjust his grip hand position AND regulate the speed. On the same shot he might use a short jab or a long follow through or anything in between.

Jose Parica: I took a lesson from Jose. He showed me a particular shot where the object was to feather the ball and bring it two cushions to nestle in behind another ball. I butchered it. Over and Over. Jose said to me, you have to do it like this.......as he demonstrated it again. I said, "Jose, I understand what you are saying but I can't do it, I don't feel it" - And I didn't. It took me a long time to develop even a fraction of the touch that Jose was trying to convey.

And that's what it comes down to "touch". You have to develop it. And yes there are tricks that top players know and use that they have either discovered or learned from other top players that most amateurs won't ever figure out. But I do feel that MOST of it comes from the time and experience.

As Bob Jewett mentioned Efren was a very good billiard player. So was Rafael Martinez. And in billiards you MUST learn to stroke the ball differently than in pool because knowing how to apply spin accurately IS 90% of the game because so much of it depends on creating and altering angles using spin.

As mentioned earlier it's possible to play pool using mostly centerball and speed. This is true. I have beaten someone on a bet using ONLY follow and draw and center ball, no side spin to prove just that point. And players are told to stay close to center and not to apply spin unless they have to and then sparingly. So they never really learn it. It's either one extreme, trying to do fancy masse' shots or the other sticking close to center ball. In fact though there is a whole world of combinations of spin/stroke that are there if one puts in the time to learn them.

 

[Mikjary]

Mike,
I've been wasting away on NPR trying to convince the Socialists to get off of the taxpayer's back.

I missed you're post:
Digging into the cue ball for side spin - 06-26-2011, 05:43 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Billiards players are known for digging into their cue ball for extreme english to avoid a miscue. Can this be done without elevating the back end of the cue stick?

Swerve can be done with a follow or draw stroke, but is this considered digging in? Efren digs into the cue ball and stays very close to center ball. He is also an accomplished billiards player and admits he spins the cue ball too much. I wish I had his faults.

Is a digging in stroke meant to avoid a miscue, or is it used to gain more spin or both? I dig in without moving the tip to the outside of the cue ball (back hand english) and follow through almost as if I am moving back to its center or straight ahead.

I can also curve slightly around object balls without elevating my cue when I use this stroke, about an eighth inch or so depending on the distance away. Another interesting thing is, it seems the closer I stay to center, the more spin I get.

Best,
Mike

Efren used to use a heavy cue, tight bridge, soft tip and a loose grip.

I used to use Elk Master soft tips years ago until I changed to the harder Le Pro that held it's shape longer.

In retrospect, I think that I was able to spin the CB better back then or was it the knappy felt before Simonis?

:wink::thumbup:

Big E,

Oh, the nappy cloth! You could power draw and watch the cue ball sit in place and spin for a second or so before it rocketed away. Or cut a ball with draw and have it hook out on the tangent line and make a u turn back at you.

If you do that now the cue ball travels three rails in the wrong direction because of the speed and kills on a rail as the spin takes effect. Younger opponents look at you like you're nuts and you have to act like you miscued to save face.

I suspected Efren liked the softer tips. I would've thought a lighter cue, also. The grip is loose, especially at his finish. Probably more than I might've even thought .

I noticed he strokes through the cue ball, even on a strong follow shot, slightly above center. He doesn't use much speed, but does get a lot of cue ball action.

I used to like the red champion tips till they started losing the backing and you had to reglue them. The elk masters mushroomed too fast. Of course I was breaking with the big rock in ring games all the time. I would go through a tip every couple of weeks. :grin:

Don't be a stranger. Social security has been around a long time. :grin:

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

Back to Efren's stroke.
He starts with the tip of his cue at thee base of the CB and then english is applied, if necessary, prior to the contact with the CB. He says that he uses a tight bridge...so does he use BHE or FHE?

 

[3kushn]

As Bob Jewett mentioned Efren was a very good billiard player. So was Rafael Martinez. And in billiards you MUST learn to stroke the ball differently than in pool because knowing how to apply spin accurately IS 90% of the game because so much of it depends on creating and altering angles using spin.

JB I really wanted to let this go but it was eating on me so must respond.
Sorry for the hijack.
Your requirement stated to play 3C is really scary for someone thinking about getting on a table to give it a try. 90% of the game is not knowing exactly what your applied English will do. If it was nobody but professionals would or could try. Sure we venture into areas of the CB thats rarely seen by the average pool player, but pool shouldn't require these extremes unless in serious, serious trouble. And if the 3C player knows whats going on there's probably an easier choice than max extreme jack the ball action. My point is the only reason a .500 3C player will beat a real good shortstop pool player that hasn't ever played, is Shot Selection. Learning how to spin the ball and what it does at an intermediate level is simple to learn. Selecting the proper shot given several solutions is the real key to the game. And I'm not even talking about the level where position play comes in. You need to be @ .750 to really understand this part of the game. .650 in this Country gets you to the Nationals.

 

[3kushn]

Back to Efren's stroke.
He starts with the tip of his cue at thee base of the CB and then english is applied, if necessary, prior to the contact with the CB. He says that he uses a tight bridge...so does he use BHE or FHE?

Or is it a swipe?

 

[JB Cases]

JB I really wanted to let this go but it was eating on me so must respond.
Sorry for the hijack.
Your requirement stated to play 3C is really scary for someone thinking about getting on a table to give it a try. 90% of the game is not knowing exactly what your applied English will do. If it was nobody but professionals would or could try. Sure we venture into areas of the CB thats rarely seen by the average pool player, but pool shouldn't require these extremes unless in serious, serious trouble. And if the 3C player knows whats going on there's probably an easier choice than max extreme jack the ball action. My point is the only reason a .500 3C player will beat a real good shortstop pool player that hasn't ever played, is Shot Selection. Learning how to spin the ball and what it does at an intermediate level is simple to learn. Selecting the proper shot given several solutions is the real key to the game. And I'm not even talking about the level where position play comes in. You need to be @ .750 to really understand this part of the game. .650 in this Country gets you to the Nationals.

90% of billiards (including 3 cushion) is NOT knowing what applied spin (english/side) will do?

I confess that I do not understand this statement. What I am talking about is not extreme spin. I am talking about all spin. In other words it is my opinion that a good billiards player is much more in tune with the minute variations in spin/stroke combinations than pool players are.

I would not have thought that 90% of the time they don't know what will happen when they apply spin if that's what you mean.

In pool the main reason to add side spin to the cue ball is for position play and I think that's the premise of the thread. On a pool table it is my contention that if a pool player and a carom player play advanced target pool then the carom player will be much more consistent at getting the cue ball to the target due to his advanced "feel" when it comes to using spin.

Do you think that this concept is wrong?

 

[LAMas]

Or is it a swipe?

Perhaps.
Starting at the base of the CB, it would be a swipe up or swipe to the side.
Here is an interesting find:


The Creative Art Of Reverse English

| by Jim Meador

Drawing is Cool

Make no mistake about it. Reverse english is an art form. No other shot on the table is as beautiful to behold when executed with precision. Proficiency with draw is directly related to the amount of time we spend practicing it. It requires an understanding of the physics involved, because both the cue tip and the cloth play a critical roll in success. Everyone loves to see the cueball draw back the entire length of the table. But, in terms of position consequences, short draw requires much more precision than a long draw shot. Missing a 4 foot draw by 6 inches is an error of 12.5%. Missing a 6 inch draw by 6 inches is an error of 100%.

Common to all draw shots is the bottom hit (below the equator of the cueball.) But, the stroke used for each distance can be quite different, and what works for one shooter may not work for another. That is where the art form comes into play. Draw shots allow for very creative strokes (not to say they require creative strokes.) It is this creative gray area where greatness is born for the draw. It is the creative balance between speed and spin that makes it so cool.

Many advanced shooters create a stroke for bottom spin that "swipes" down, across the lower surface of the cueball at the moment of contact. This requires that the bridge hand be used like a fulcrum, and the butt of the cue stick snapped slightly upward, by changing from a loose to a firm grip at the very last moment before impact. The "swipe" is often applied subconsciously to avoid scooping the ball....

http://www.billiardworld.com/drawshot.htm

 

[3kushn]

90% of billiards (including 3 cushion) is NOT knowing what applied spin (english/side) will do?

I confess that I do not understand this statement. What I am talking about is not extreme spin. I am talking about all spin. In other words it is my opinion that a good billiards player is much more in tune with the minute variations in spin/stroke combinations than pool players are.

I would not have thought that 90% of the time they don't know what will happen when they apply spin if that's what you mean.

In pool the main reason to add side spin to the cue ball is for position play and I think that's the premise of the thread. On a pool table it is my contention that if a pool player and a carom player play advanced target pool then the carom player will be much more consistent at getting the cue ball to the target due to his advanced "feel" when it comes to using spin.

Do you think that this concept is wrong?

I think this is leading the thread in a different direction but want to answer your question then get back on topic which I believe is and to your point
1) Do players use incremental tip placements or do they stay near center ball.
2) What is the stroke technique that guys like Efren use to achieve large amounts of top spin while seemingly cuing nearer to center than any of us mortals would do?

Ok I'm above average 3C player meaning I win much more than lose. That doesn't make me an expert by any means, it simply means I've played and studied the game for a very long time and the average 3C player in this counrty struggle more than I. Most of that struggle comes from poor shot selection. Beginners tend to choose a shot that requires them to juice the CB in an attempt to create an angle rather than taking the natural angle solutions.

IMO the vast majority of 3C shots are made with Natural English. The ball will have a Natural Roll and with side spin that favors the direction of the shot and a hit to carom to the determined place on the rail. Tip high, tip left or right as a crude/basic description of Natural English.

There are clock systems one of which is 1/2 ball hit and the tip placement will bring you to the desired 3rd rail. Personally I use this about 25% of a game so to answer question #1 Yes I do place the tip in an exact spot. The spot is determined by my personal stroke doing a simple drill. I don't think the phrase "Tips of English" as has been defined is very useful. I prefer calibrating to 1,2,3 diamond spread shooting accross the table. This gives you the exact tip placement and a specific reference to judge all tables and personal to each player. "Tips of English" is only good as a general feeling for discussion only IMO.

Lastly advanced players are choosing ball 2 ending position area(s) for the next shot position. (In pool ball 2 position is the pocket) now bring the CB to ball 3 given the selected hit. In many many cases this can be done close to Center Ball just like pool. No different than position play in pool.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

I hit as close to the center of the cue ball as I can, without hitting the center. Believe it or not. That's were you get the most spin.


___________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com