Touching the ONE-BALL in a 9-Ball Rack Creates an ADVANTAGE - Is This "Cheating" ?

[Neil]

Neil, At one time you were one of my favorite posters. I don't understand why you constantly chase CJ's every post on here and try to pick it apart. What has the guy done to you to deserve this stalking behavior?? IMO the mods should give this type of aggressive stalking a lengthy time out. It's wrong and it shouldn't be tolerated on any forum.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum, not a CJ say whatever crap he wants and no one else is allowed to say anything. Get over your hero. I'm not stalking anyone. If I was, I would point out the crap he spews in a lot more post than I do.

Why don't you for once actually READ the crap he posts, and the rebuttals that I and many others give to it instead of just automatically taking offense at anyone daring to question the mighty CJ? Him calling anyone that touches the one a cheat is blatant nonsense and outright lies. Yes, he is going to get called on it.

 

[Neil]

The way I understand "loading" the rack is "intentionally" creating small gaps between "certain" balls in the rack to allow "other" balls to pass them "easier" in the attempt to pocket a ball with a bit more consistency.

I have never practiced what I have read to see if it works because it is cheating. Maybe I will experiment tomorrow when I go for my weekly play just to see how much it affects things.

I use a Magic rack or the SOLO rack and don't have any problems. I think EVERYBODY should use one. As long as ALL the balls are touching, I don't think anyone has an advantage.

The other way of cheating that I have noticed is "intentionally" tilting the rack to one side or the other. That is why I advocate a line be drawn from the end rail to the spot to ensure they are lined up straight.

Aloha.

That's not the way others have used it on here. They think that you can actually get the balls tighter than just touching each other. I agree with you, that creating gaps on purpose is cheating, and it does affect the rack quite a bit. Both ways. I know one guy that you can't make a ball on his racks.

 

[Neil]

When is the last time he made an informative post? Look back at his last 100 posts and show one example. Then count how many times his only point is "CJ is wrong," or "CJ's TOI can't be proven by science" - this is ridiculous,

I'm sharing the technique that helped me become the #1 money player in the world and Professional Player of the Year (96) - my opponents sure knew it worked and so will anyone that dedicates themselves to 'The Touch of Inside' system for 3 hours.

More bullshit from you, but I'm quite sure your fans won't bother to check to see how full of it you really are. I can easily back up what I said. You can't, so you make up crap to try and make yourself look better when you got busted again. Actually, I'm surprised you were dumb enough to make the statement you just did about checking posts, after I nailed you again on it yesterday. But, go ahead and try and make me look bad when it's not there. I will continue to point out your crap that the only answers you ever have is to try and make me look bad. Not once have you ever proven me wrong in what I have stated, only replied with insults. But, continue on, the mods have proved you are truly an untouchable on here, and free to spam, lie, and insult at hearts content, while providing very little actual content.

 

[brad21156]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum, not a CJ say whatever crap he wants and no one else is allowed to say anything. Get over your hero. I'm not stalking anyone. If I was, I would point out the crap he spews in a lot more post than I do.

Why don't you for once actually READ the crap he posts, and the rebuttals that I and many others give to it instead of just automatically taking offense at anyone daring to question the mighty CJ? Him calling anyone that touches the one a cheat is blatant nonsense and outright lies. Yes, he is going to get called on it.

Yes, this is a discussion forum. Not a stalk CJ's every post forum like you seem to think it is. DO we really need to get a post count for you to show how many of your posts are directly devoted to bashing CJ? I mean, if thats what it takes I can. As you can see I'm not alone in seeing your constant attacks on CJ. Are we ALL blinded because he's our HERO?? I don't think that's the case.

I read what he posts and I have read your replies. Notice you are the only person I am talking to right now. I've read many valid questions directed at CJ. You are the only on e stalking his every post on here. Look at your daily activity just for today. Count how many posts are directed at something CJ wrote.

You have every right to call someone out if you think they deserve it.

I'm calling you out. Anyone is free to view your posts and see if I'm out of line.

But this constant stalking behavior you display here has no place in my opinion.

 

[Neil]

Yes, this is a discussion forum. Not a stalk CJ's every post forum like you seem to think it is. DO we really need to get a post count for you to show how many of your posts are directly devoted to bashing CJ? I mean, if thats what it takes I can. As you can see I'm not alone in seeing your constant attacks on CJ. Are we ALL blinded because he's our HERO?? I don't think that's the case.

I read what he posts and I have read your replies. Notice you are the only person I am talking to right now. I've read many valid questions directed at CJ. You are the only on e stalking his every post on here. Look at your daily activity just for today. Count how many posts are directed at something CJ wrote.

You have every right to call someone out if you think they deserve it.

I'm calling you out. Anyone is free to view your posts and see if I'm out of line.

But this constant stalking behavior you display here has no place in my opinion.

Go right ahead. Count them all up. I dare you to. I have over ten thousand posts. And, why lie? Why not just face reality? You stated unequivocally that I stalk every post of his. Prove it, or apologize. I've been on here many years, and you want to claim ONE DAY as your proof? Is that supposed to be a joke? All I am doing is countering his flat out lies in this thread. If you have a problem with that, that is your problem. Don't read it. But, when he flat out lies about me, you better believe I am going to show him out to be the liar that he is. Just as I did you here.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Please, someone show his activity so I can do my job and promote pool

Yes, this is a discussion forum. Not a stalk CJ's every post forum like you seem to think it is. DO we really need to get a post count for you to show how many of your posts are directly devoted to bashing CJ? I mean, if thats what it takes I can. As you can see I'm not alone in seeing your constant attacks on CJ. Are we ALL blinded because he's our HERO?? I don't think that's the case.

I read what he posts and I have read your replies. Notice you are the only person I am talking to right now. I've read many valid questions directed at CJ. You are the only on e stalking his every post on here. Look at your daily activity just for today. Count how many posts are directed at something CJ wrote.

You have every right to call someone out if you think they deserve it.

I'm calling you out. Anyone is free to view your posts and see if I'm out of line.

But this constant stalking behavior you display here has no place in my opinion.

Please, someone show his activity so I can do my job and promote pool to those that enjoy what I have to say. I understand I'm going to have stalkers and trolls, but this guy is taking it WAYYYYY to far.

I am a GOLD MEMBER and have had a ad on the front page of www.azbilliard.com for the last 2 years straight......is this not setting a good example?

In the next three weeks I have some exciting news. please don't let the few ruin it for everyone. I have no obligation to share anything further under these circumstances!

 

[Neil]

Please, someone show his activity so I can do my job and promote pool to those that enjoy what I have to say. I understand I'm going to have stalkers and trolls, but this guy is taking it WAYYYYY to far.

I am a GOLD MEMBER and have had a ad on the front page of www.azbilliard.com for the last 2 years straight......is this not setting a good example?

In the next three weeks I have some exciting news. please don't let the few ruin it for everyone. I have no obligation to share anything further under these circumstances!

Go right ahead CJ, do it yourself. You made the claims, YOU prove it. Quit asking others to do your dirty work. You won't do it, because you know it will prove me right and you to be a liar. We all know you are counting on no one actually doing it because it would take up way too much of their time. So, YOU do it. I already proved you flat out lied, and you persist in doing it. Now man up and prove you aren't or shut up about it. For once, man up and prove what you say.

This has nothing to do with stalking, this has everything to do with you lying. You are right, it doesn't set a good example, and you are supposed to be. You have been called out on here quite a bit lately by a large number of posters. I just happen to be the one in this thread. You also have been the reason several good posters have stated they are done on here. They are sick and tired of your nonsense spamming and lies about people on here. For once in your life, take a look at yourself, and quit blaming others.

 

[CJ Wiley]

You have never proved anything!

Go right ahead CJ, do it yourself. You made the claims, YOU prove it. Quit asking others to do your dirty work. You won't do it, because you know it will prove me right and you to be a liar. We all know you are counting on no one actually doing it because it would take up way too much of their time. So, YOU do it. I already proved you flat out lied, and you persist in doing it. Now man up and prove you aren't or shut up about it. For once, man up and prove what you say.

This has nothing to do with stalking, this has everything to do with you lying. You are right, it doesn't set a good example, and you are supposed to be. You have been called out on here quite a bit lately by a large number of posters. I just happen to be the one in this thread. You also have been the reason several good posters have stated they are done on here. They are sick and tired of your nonsense spamming and lies about people on here. For once in your life, take a look at yourself, and quit blaming others.

You have never proved anything other than you are are sick and incorrigible.

 

[Neil]

You have never proved anything other than you are are sick and incorrigible.

More lies and insults. I proved you a liar twice in this thread alone. Typical response from you as someone that refuses to face the truth. No apology, no admittance, only childish name calling with no basis in fact.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes, this is a discussion forum. Not a stalk CJ's every post forum like you seem to think it is. DO we really need to get a post count for you to show how many of your posts are directly devoted to bashing CJ? I mean, if thats what it takes I can. As you can see I'm not alone in seeing your constant attacks on CJ. Are we ALL blinded because he's our HERO?? I don't think that's the case.

I read what he posts and I have read your replies. Notice you are the only person I am talking to right now. I've read many valid questions directed at CJ. You are the only on e stalking his every post on here. Look at your daily activity just for today. Count how many posts are directed at something CJ wrote.

You have every right to call someone out if you think they deserve it.

I'm calling you out. Anyone is free to view your posts and see if I'm out of line.

But this constant stalking behavior you display here has no place in my opinion.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[CJ Wiley]

Let's get back to the topic of the thread, it's very important to ALL pool players

I highly recommend Joe Tucker's video on racking. Joe found out about the vulnerability of the 9 Ball rack back in the 90s and made the video in an attempt to educate and protect players from skulduggery. The 10-Ball rack is also easy to manipulate, just in a different way, especially using "racking templates".

What Joe discovered in his research is the ONE-BALL NOT being froze is actually an advantage (we've been led to believe that having the one-ball not frozen is bad, when it's actually good - IF you know how to use this info to determine where to break from).

However, you can use the one-ball to create intentional gaps.

When you see Joe's video he will mention "gaps" quite often, although he won't show you how to create them. Joe's an honorable guy and didn't want to show people how to create an advantage, instead he shows what to look for to protect yourself from intentional manipulation when your opponent's racking.

I won't "spill the beans," I'll just say there's something called the "Forward Press," and the "Back Press." - to "load" a 9-Ball rack you press the one back, to "load" the 10-Ball rack you press the middle, back two balls forward. This creates a chain reaction within the rack and manipulates the balls on the other end.

Either way, if you see someone fiddling with the one-ball they are up to no good (also goes for pressing the back two balls playing 10-Ball). Watch some players very closely at TURNING STONE and you'll see exactly what I'm referring to.

This is one reason I don't like competing at 9-Ball as it's played now, it's become a "racking war". When I was competing full time we had a "gentleman's agreement" not to check the referee's rack (Oh, yeah, I forgot there are no more referees, do you now wonder why?) . I recommend Joe's DVD - LEARN this technique or face the consequences!!! click this picture for more info on racking secrets - before it costs you another match

Joe Tucker introduced the art of reading racks in 1999 with his highly recommended and out of print book “Racking Secrets”. Now Joe comes to you via DVD and clearly explains and then demonstrates how this powerful knowledge (is utilized).

He starts off with 9 Ball and shows you how we all had it backwards. He shows why and how the wing balls do and don’t go. Shows you how to adjust your cue ball speed and placement according to how the balls are racked. He shows you how to make more and give up less 9 Balls on the break!!!

 

[Neil]

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

You want to thumb up that Rick? Fine, I give you the same challenge I gave him. PROVE IT, or aplogize!

 

[LNCPA]

The way I understand "loading" the rack is "intentionally" creating small gaps between "certain" balls in the rack to allow "other" balls to pass them "easier" in the attempt to pocket a ball with a bit more consistency.

I use a Magic rack or the SOLO rack and don't have any problems. I think EVERYBODY should use one. As long as ALL the balls are touching, I don't think anyone has an advantage.


Aloha.

Did you miss this comment by CJ, "I have to disagree about the magic rack playing 10-Ball, it makes the manipulation "move" easier and more effective. When you know the "inside knowledge" and touch the one ball after the balls are racked you can create effective create gaps."

 

[Hungarian]

Thanks CJ! I didn't understand all this racking stuff. Now I'm starting to. Can you explain it a little more?

You say in 9 ball you push back on the 1 ball. Question is where do you desire the gaps then exist? Is there a gap between the two second row balls or are there gaps between the second row ball and the wing ball? Or both? Is the one ball still froze to both second row ball?

I can see this being a massive advantage and so I'd like to start using it..

Thanks

:wink:

 

[CJ Wiley]

I've said for years that the rack must be neutralized and have invented a game

Did you miss this comment by CJ, "I have to disagree about the magic rack playing 10-Ball, it makes the manipulation "move" easier and more effective. When you know the "inside knowledge" and touch the one ball after the balls are racked you can create effective create gaps."

Yes, I even explained how it is done. I have known about this for sometime, but choose not to participate in any rack manipulation. I've said for years that the rack must be neutralized and have invented a game that will solve ALL the issues with racking.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Did you miss this comment by CJ, "I have to disagree about the magic rack playing 10-Ball, it makes the manipulation "move" easier and more effective. When you know the "inside knowledge" and touch the one ball after the balls are racked you can create effective create gaps."

In 9-ball you can make the "L" gap, which creates a small space between the front 6 balls and the back 3. The "L" can be on either side...depending upon what side you prefer to break from. The "L" gap on the corner allows the corner ball to "pass" easier because the ball in the next to last row isn't "quite" touching the corner ball.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Joe Tucker calls it "The L Train" - you simply break from the same side as the "gap"

Thanks CJ! I didn't understand all this racking stuff. Now I'm starting to. Can you explain it a little more?

You say in 9 ball you push back on the 1 ball. Question is where do you desire the gaps then exist? Is there a gap between the two second row balls or are there gaps between the second row ball and the wing ball? Or both? Is the one ball still froze to both second row ball?

I can see this being a massive advantage and so I'd like to start using it..

Thanks

:wink:

Joe Tucker calls it "The L Train," which is the balls around the 9 Ball, and there is a system that he shows to detect and utilize it - you simply break from the same side as the "gap" - if the back ball is "gapped" you do the contrary and break from the opposite side. The reaction in the rack gets the balls behind the wing ball out of the way and it goes straight in the corner pocket.

You really need to order Joe's DVD, it's well worth knowing, I won't give anything more away, it's not fair to Joe and the tremendous research he has dedicated to racking/breaking. (I apologize HawaiianEye, posted this before seeing yours)

 

[Floppage]

Joe Tucker calls it "The L Train," which is the balls around the 9 Ball, and there is a system that he shows to detect and utilize it - you simply break from the same side as the "gap" - if the back ball is "gapped" you do the contrary and break from the opposite side. The reaction in the rack gets the balls behind the wing ball out of the way and it goes straight in the corner pocket.

You really need to order Joe's DVD, it's well worth knowing, I won't give anything more away, it's not fair to Joe and the tremendous research he has dedicated to racking/breaking.

CJ is the third person now to suggest I order the DVD so I'm doing that today. However, my watching it will be more about general curiosity and avoiding having it used on me in the future. I agree with some of the other people on this and related threads that rack manipulation is shady and hurts the game.

 

[CJ Wiley]

if you do, please explain it so everyone will know too.

The part I put in red is what I would expect to hear from someone that likes to rig racks. And, is a very unfair and untrue statement. The majority of people touching the one are just trying to get it frozen to the first two balls.

Also, I've heard of loading the rack several times on here. Yet, not one single person has been able to explain what they are even talking about. The balls are either touching, or they aren't touching. You are not going to get them any tighter than touching, not matter what you may think. They are round balls on a flat surface.

No one on here knows the technique of "Loading the Rack" - if you do, please explain it so everyone will know too.

This goes for any member of Azbilliards, if you know how to Load the rack, explain it and then it will clear the air and create an even playing field. I won't explain this because I don't want to, no explanation necessary.

 

[CJ Wiley]

CJ is the third person now to suggest I order the DVD so I'm doing that today. However, my watching it will be more about general curiosity and avoiding having it used on me in the future. I agree with some of the other people on this and related threads that rack manipulation is shady and hurts the game.

You better get the info somehow. The easiest way is to ask Joe, or get his DVD.