Mark the Pocket Rule?
- Thread starter jason
- Start date
Had no idea it was in the rule book. What edition? I've never heard of this outside of league play, but I haven't really played the game since I started going in commercial rooms in the early or mid '70s. And don't want to. Far as I know, indicating the pocket should be enough. Why would you have to mark it??
8-ball is a ball/pocket nomination game -- call *every* ball/pocket!
I think the rule of marking the pocket by placing some item next to the pocket (besides a piece of chalk, which is not allowed) is quite silly -- very amateur and "bush league," IMHO. Not even your local pub/tavern/bar's silly "call every shot/tickie/carom/rail" rules require that you place an item next to the intended pocket to "indicate" it. Pool is supposed to be a gentleperson's game, with proper conduct. There should be a certain leeway or honor system where if you indicate a pocket by calling the pocket or pointing at it with your stick, and you get the acknowledgment of your opponent (this is key!), then that should be sufficient enough. No need for prophylactic rules requiring a personal item to "mark" the intended pocket. I can definitely understand the desire to prevent arguments, but that's what the rest of your leaguemates are for. The key is getting the acknowledgment of your opponent -- while you still have your stick pointing at the pocket, not afterwards when it can be argued as to what he/she "thought" you'd indicated.
In the case of any questionable shots, it's the opponent's responsibility to call a "ref" over (could be a league mate, from either or both of the teams) to watch the shot. On the flip-side of the coin, gentlemanly conduct on the part of the shooter also calls for having a "ref" judge the shot for you. I always call a "ref" representative, one from my team and one from the opposing team, to watch any questionable shots I make, even though it's not my responsibility and I don't have to. Just trying to be a gentleman playing an honorable gentleperson's game.
In summary, I believe all pockets should be called, not just the 8-ball, by indicating the pocket without having to mark it. No slop! Get the acknowledgment of your opponent while you're still pointing at the pocket (make sure your leaguemates are watching as well), and there should be no troubles.
Anyway, those are my thoughts; as passionate as they may be about this particular topic.
-Sean
I think the rule of marking the pocket by placing some item next to the pocket (besides a piece of chalk, which is not allowed) is quite silly -- very amateur and "bush league," IMHO. Not even your local pub/tavern/bar's silly "call every shot/tickie/carom/rail" rules require that you place an item next to the intended pocket to "indicate" it. Pool is supposed to be a gentleperson's game, with proper conduct. There should be a certain leeway or honor system where if you indicate a pocket by calling the pocket or pointing at it with your stick, and you get the acknowledgment of your opponent (this is key!), then that should be sufficient enough. No need for prophylactic rules requiring a personal item to "mark" the intended pocket. I can definitely understand the desire to prevent arguments, but that's what the rest of your leaguemates are for. The key is getting the acknowledgment of your opponent -- while you still have your stick pointing at the pocket, not afterwards when it can be argued as to what he/she "thought" you'd indicated.
In the case of any questionable shots, it's the opponent's responsibility to call a "ref" over (could be a league mate, from either or both of the teams) to watch the shot. On the flip-side of the coin, gentlemanly conduct on the part of the shooter also calls for having a "ref" judge the shot for you. I always call a "ref" representative, one from my team and one from the opposing team, to watch any questionable shots I make, even though it's not my responsibility and I don't have to. Just trying to be a gentleman playing an honorable gentleperson's game.
In summary, I believe all pockets should be called, not just the 8-ball, by indicating the pocket without having to mark it. No slop! Get the acknowledgment of your opponent while you're still pointing at the pocket (make sure your leaguemates are watching as well), and there should be no troubles.
Anyway, those are my thoughts; as passionate as they may be about this particular topic.
-Sean
There's simply no way to have an effective survey here. That rule is for the lowest common denominator and you're simply not going to find that here on azb.
It's the stupidest rule in the book....
What reason is there that you would have to mark the 8 and not any other ball you're shooting at? The 8 is the only ball that you definately shouldn't be able to slop in?? that for one doesn't make sense to me. Alot of teams in the lower divisions that I've seen around here use that rule to to prevent arguments, but to snatch wins on a technicality b/c you didn't mark the pocket - even on an obvious shot. Like someone else here said, its a gentlemans game, if you point and your opponent acknowledges, that should be more than enough.
What reason is there that you would have to mark the 8 and not any other ball you're shooting at? The 8 is the only ball that you definately shouldn't be able to slop in?? that for one doesn't make sense to me. Alot of teams in the lower divisions that I've seen around here use that rule to to prevent arguments, but to snatch wins on a technicality b/c you didn't mark the pocket - even on an obvious shot. Like someone else here said, its a gentlemans game, if you point and your opponent acknowledges, that should be more than enough.
thats the problem, not enough gentlemen who play these days.
Prevents Arguements
First off, I know of no serious pool players who marks their pocket.
That being said, this rule is not for serious pool players. As far as I know it is only in the APA with A standing for "super amateur". It is designed for the 2's, 3's and 4's so that there is not doubt as to what pocket they are trying to slop the 8-ball into.
Instead of being upset about it, have some fun with it. Buy yourself a shark to mark the pocket or a flaming 8-ball. Remember, APA is not about being serious, it is about having a good time with your friends. If you want to be serious, drop $50 on a real tournament or play heads up for $100 a set. If you just want to have some fun, join a league, pay your $6 a night and enjoy the shenanigans of other players.
First off, I know of no serious pool players who marks their pocket.
That being said, this rule is not for serious pool players. As far as I know it is only in the APA with A standing for "super amateur". It is designed for the 2's, 3's and 4's so that there is not doubt as to what pocket they are trying to slop the 8-ball into.
Instead of being upset about it, have some fun with it. Buy yourself a shark to mark the pocket or a flaming 8-ball. Remember, APA is not about being serious, it is about having a good time with your friends. If you want to be serious, drop $50 on a real tournament or play heads up for $100 a set. If you just want to have some fun, join a league, pay your $6 a night and enjoy the shenanigans of other players.
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Well, you just nailed the issue right there.
The typical bar rules of calling everything is very consistent with simply calling the 8-ball. So there's zero conflict there.
However, when dealing with APA rules (which I assume Jason is referring to, as he didn't specify - just said "the rule book" as if there is only one), which is the only ruleset I know of that allows for slop in 8-ball - the 8-ball shot is the *only* shot that must be called.
All the mark-the-pocket rule is is a slightly more inconvenient way of calling that shot. It also helps put the kibosh on any disagreements on what pocket was called. If it was just a matter of pointing at a pocket to call it, there's any number of weasels playing APA who would claim he/she *really* called the pocket he/she slopped the eight into - and then it's a he-said/she-said situation which can escalate. You can't argue with a physical marker on the pocket.
The mark the pocket rule is enforce in most modern leagues including the APA, VNEA, and the TAP. You have to mark it or chance the opponent to call a foul and lose the game.
Haven't played 8 ball since the early to mid '70s and only in commercial rooms? Your a true pure pool purest old-timer! Much respect.
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I'm sure if you search hard enough on the internet you can come up with some proffesional 8ball matches from the late 80s early 90s that the players either patch EVERY POCKET or the ref walks around the table and patches every pocket the player calls.
Jude, I agree this rule is usually not enforced by the better players (if that is what you mean) until money becomes involved. This rule was made for the nits who play league, but is it effective in solving agruments, or does it create more?
I was referring to all leagues that use this rule.
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
Section 2.9 is the relevant section here.
There is no 'physically mark the pocket for the eight-ball shot' rule in the BCA ruleset.
I mean simply that the rule is in place for people who are going to argue the shooter's intention. Most league play (specifically APA) is refereed by inexperienced players and/or inexperienced referees. Seriously, how often does the 8ball go in the wrong pocket and it wasn't obvious to the entire world? Perhaps once in a thousand? Once in ten thousand? Everybody is marking pockets to protect themselves from a situation that really is very very rare. With the lowest ranked players, I can somewhat understand this practice but with anyone higher than an s/l 3, I think it's a bit ridiculous.
Never heard that...
I dont kow any thing about VNEA, but i have never heard that you need to mark your pocket in BCA...Now the good old APA, doesnt it speak for itself that you have to mark the pocket just too stem the chance of argument..You would have to be one sad human to try and win a game by lying about what pocket you really chose...That is really sad...
The mark the pocket rule is enforce in most modern leagues including the APA, VNEA, and the BCA. You have to mark it or chance the opponent to call a foul and lose the game.
Haven't played 8 ball since the early to mid '70s and only in commercial rooms? Your a true pure pool purest old-timer! Much respect.
I dont kow any thing about VNEA, but i have never heard that you need to mark your pocket in BCA...Now the good old APA, doesnt it speak for itself that you have to mark the pocket just too stem the chance of argument..You would have to be one sad human to try and win a game by lying about what pocket you really chose...That is really sad...
http://dsmpoolplayers.com/UserFiles/pdf/DesMoinesBCA/BCA%20Local%20Bylaws%202007-09-23.pdf
Although the master rules do not call for it, many local BCA rules do. Thanks for being accurate, but this isn't really about any specific league.
I played APA one year as a seven. I thought the "marking" was so stupid I spent $40 on a stand up cardboard sign. It was kind of a rebellion towards an idiotic rule. I was about four and a half feet high and said, "I am playin' the eight ball in this fu#$in' pocket" and had a large arrow that pointed down. After three weeks, the area person asked me to not bring it with me. Anyone want it?
See, this whole thread is a perfect example of posting on a global scale based on local info
You could have one local BCA league you play in that has some really odd requirement like "must wear white sneakers when playing a match", and then starting a thread that folks around the world will see, titled "Why does BCA require I wear white sneakers???"
