Wrap motor

Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I've burned up 2 - 1 amp sewing machine motors now and 1 foot pedal doing wraps on my Jet mini wood lathe. Is there a good motor with torque, and can be done with a foot pedal, a good one? This last one slowed down to about 20 rpm as the magic smoke came out, and was only half done. I had an old motor that I then put in to finish, but what a PAIN IN THE A$$.
The foot pedal I killed by trying a trim router on it, and it worked great, plenty of torque and speed, for about 50 seconds before the pedal let out the magic smoke also.
I usually disengage the regular belt and let the spindle turn freely. Then install a belt around the spindle to the motor, and adjust so it's not too tight, I have the motor on a jig that fits into the toolrest holder, but about halfway is when things start to slow down and then go Kaputs. Any advice is welcome.
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
I've burned up 2 - 1 amp sewing machine motors now and 1 foot pedal doing wraps on my Jet mini wood lathe. Is there a good motor with torque, and can be done with a foot pedal, a good one? This last one slowed down to about 20 rpm as the magic smoke came out, and was only half done. I had an old motor that I then put in to finish, but what a PAIN IN THE A$$.
The foot pedal I killed by trying a trim router on it, and it worked great, plenty of torque and speed, for about 50 seconds before the pedal let out the magic smoke also.
I usually disengage the regular belt and let the spindle turn freely. Then install a belt around the spindle to the motor, and adjust so it's not too tight, I have the motor on a jig that fits into the toolrest holder, but about halfway is when things start to slow down and then go Kaputs. Any advice is welcome.
Dave
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I guess I've had better luck as I'm still using the sewing machine motor and pedal off of a Sears kenmore sewing machine that I paid 10.00 for at a Thrift store over 25 years ago. I've probably wrapped well over a 1000 cues with it.

Dick
 
Hi Dave,
Sorry about your luck.
The only thing that comes to mind from reading your post is that even though you've disengaged the spindle on your lathe, allowing it to freewheel, it may still be providing enough drag to over-load the motor. It should freewheel with no resistance whatsoever.

Another concern might be the amount of tension you're putting on the linen/cordage as you're applying it.
In either event, it translates to load on the motor.

Sewing mach. mtrs. are inexpensive and readily available. However, they're not real powerful. They will get the job done if you're mindful of their limitations and act accordingly.
There are certainly more powerful mtrs. available but you're going to have to spend a little more.
There's an old saying that states : "Speed & hp are just a matter of money. How fast you want to go will depend on how much you are willing to spend."

FWIW, I, have been using the sewing mach. mtr. for 20 yrs. or so also. The guy I originally bought it from was looking for one about 10 yrs. later, so I sold it back to him and bought one of slightly higher amperage. No complaints.
 
When building the rod wrapping lathe for My Bro, I first used a old 1amp sewing motor I had, and I blew that thing up, made a loud pop then some of that magic smoke poured out of the back of the motor.

Anyway I found a little Dayton on ebay for around 15 bucks, and It seems to work well. I think Granger or someone like them sells these for 50 to 65 bucks.

I don't know if one of those will work for you or not, probably depend on the drag as someone mentioned, but It worked for My project. It's darn near the same motor that's used for wrapping on My deluxe, except the one on the deluxe has dual output shafts, and never I've had a problem with that one wrapping cues.

Greg
 
KJ Cues said:
Hi Dave,
Sorry about your luck.
The only thing that comes to mind from reading your post is that even though you've disengaged the spindle on your lathe, allowing it to freewheel, it may still be providing enough drag to over-load the motor. It should freewheel with no resistance whatsoever.

Another concern might be the amount of tension you're putting on the linen/cordage as you're applying it.
In either event, it translates to load on the motor.

Sewing mach. mtrs. are inexpensive and readily available. However, they're not real powerful. They will get the job done if you're mindful of their limitations and act accordingly.
There are certainly more powerful mtrs. available but you're going to have to spend a little more.
There's an old saying that states : "Speed & hp are just a matter of money. How fast you want to go will depend on how much you are willing to spend."

FWIW, I, have been using the sewing mach. mtr. for 20 yrs. or so also. The guy I originally bought it from was looking for one about 10 yrs. later, so I sold it back to him and bought one of slightly higher amperage. No complaints.
Click to expand...

Good info KJ,

Just to add a few thoughts to the drag issue- The alignment of the motor and the belt tension can also play into the drag effect with those sewing motors. Too tight and the motor can drag on the sides of the bushings/bearings, but you can also pick up drag in the belt to pulley friction area. I like v-shaped cog belts because of the fact that you can run them fairly loose without them slipping, and that reduces the wear on the side of the motor bushings, but It may be a give and take, and not be as smooth as say a round belt. I'll take the stress the cog style relieves on the motor bushings over that any day though when It comes to wrapping.

Here's some pics of what I built to power My brother's rig. I got that motor off of ebay like I mentioned, and It worked out perfect. I can easily adjust the tension with a t-handled hex wrench, and to change pulleys It's as simple as loosening that black handle, sliding the whole motor mount assembly over, an inline with the desired pulley size, then tighten the handle back down. I originally had a couple of designs in mind that would have used a spring or screw for adjusting belt tension, but as It turned out that was not needed for this. The belts I found on ebay too, think It was about 8 bucks shipped to My door. This motor also runs on a foot pedal, like the sewing motors, they are about the amperage I think, and not really any more powerful, but I have had better luck with them then the motors I pulled off of sewing machines, but keep in mind the sewing motors I tried for projects in the past were usually off a used machine, so possible they had seen better days to begin with.

Greg
 

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Man, I don't know Dave. I have been using the same sewing machine motor w/a Delta Mid Lathe for 7 years now. And, it was used when I got it! I always dis-connect the drive belt on the lathe and use an 'O' ring over the hand wheel on the head stock. Have to replace the 'O' ring every so often, but, no big deal. Good luck on this one. Steve
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, I guess I just have to align things more carefully. The last motor was a used one, but it was a 1 amp verses the .5 amp one that I was using. I will probably buy a new 1 amp to try and see if that helps.
I like your design Greg, thanks for sharing it. (I promise not to copy it and then offer it to all cuemakers:wink::eek::). ) What was the model of motor? If you like them, then I may also.
Thanks,
Dave
 
Hey Dave. Have you ever tried doing them on your metal lathe? I have always meant to set up a wraping motor on my sanding lathe but never got around to it. I just use the 12/36 lathe set on 750rpm to do mine. I spread the glue, start the wrap 4 turns and let it fly. Hit the switch about 1 inch before you reach the end of the wrap chanel and it usally only over runs by about 2 or 3 turns. I used to do them on lower speeds but as you get better at them you can spin it up faster. Just make sure you have a spool holder that does not tangle. Chris.
 
I Obviously use a foot pedal Myself as I mentioned, so although I have done them By hand with no power before, I have never tried It under straight switch power like that, But I agree the linen seems to run smoother at a higher speed. Using the pedal, I use to start out slower and gradually increase My speed, until I was really cooking by the time I got close to the end of the wrap groove. Also, usually if I had any problems they were while starting out at the slow speed rarely would i have a stop over the half way mark. I have found that the linen runs a lot smoother for me If I start out at a faster speed and continue through. I'm less likely to have any stops doing them that way too, and have an easier time running in one shot, from start to finish.
 
Dave38 said:
Thanks for all the replies guys, I guess I just have to align things more carefully. The last motor was a used one, but it was a 1 amp verses the .5 amp one that I was using. I will probably buy a new 1 amp to try and see if that helps.
I like your design Greg, thanks for sharing it. (I promise not to copy it and then offer it to all cuemakers:wink::eek::). ) What was the model of motor? If you like them, then I may also.
Thanks,
Dave
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Dang It Dave, Sorry brother, I missed Your post & the question there. Sent You a PM
 
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Cue Crazy said:
Dang It Dave, Sorry brother, I missed Your post & the question there. Sent You a PM
Click to expand...

No prob, thankjs for the info. I tried my first one on my metal lathe.......lets just say it didn't go very well. I agree that once it gets going speedwise, it goes very smoothly.
Dave
 
A general comment, when you run a motor under load slowly, it has a tougher time cooling itself and will therefore run hot. I'd be inclined to gear it down considerably to let the motor run faster/cooler.

As to a motor suggestion, perhaps a windshield wiper motor would do the trick. The only issue would be the 0-12VDC input. Another alternative might be to start with a small gear-head motor ... they can have a lot of torque at relatively slow speeds (requiring less speed-reduction-pulleys to the spindle).

Dave
 
DaveK said:
I'd likely build my own, but that option may not be best for most. Commercial DC motor controllers are very common, from suppliers like this :

http://www.dartcontrols.com/

There are about a brazillian DC motor contollers out there.

Dave
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It's not a Dart controller, but I bought a cheap PWM control board for about 30 bucks to use with the gear motor on the spinner for the finishing station. It runs a 12v power window motor, so I Imagine you could run a wiper motor on It too. It needs 12v dc supplied instead 110/120, so I just modified a computer PSU, for My power supply. The power window motor has plenty of torque, and I could probably run a make shift power feed with that motor, and It may work great for that, but It does run a little warm after prolonged use, so I may switch out to a wiper motor for the spinner.
 
Cue Crazy said:
It's not a Dart controller, but I bought a cheap PWM control board for about 30 bucks to use with the gear motor on the spinner for the finishing station.
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That sounds about right, these things don't have to be expensive. The dart page was simply an example. If folks are into making their own stuff many motor controller kits are available.

Cue Crazy said:
The power window motor has plenty of torque, and I could probably run a make shift power feed with that motor, and It may work great for that, but It does run a little warm after prolonged use, so I may switch out to a wiper motor for the spinner.
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I don't know much about power-window motors. Having said that, they may simply be built for a very low duty cycle. In other words thet are not built to spin non-stop for a long period of time. Wiper motors do run for extended periods of time, but rarely in this dessert we call Saskatchewan :eek:


Dave
 
DaveK said:
I don't know much about power-window motors. Having said that, they may simply be built for a very low duty cycle. In other words thet are not built to spin non-stop for a long period of time. Wiper motors do run for extended periods of time, but rarely in this dessert we call Saskatchewan :eek:


Dave
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Yes, You are correct, They have nice torque but weren't made to be continuous, so they do get little warm, but I ran one for about an hour, and somehow I didn't blow it up. It does have a vent tube, although I'm not sure It cools the motor well enough for My taste.
 
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