What do you do with this position?

This one is I had to set up. My first idea is a force follow to 1/4 Diam from the corner on the short. Took many tries but got it straight HIGH.

The other solution only took me 2 trys. You need the CB to have English off the 3rd rail so I shot with a slight angle then clocked it to the Red. Worked beautiful and with shape.

http://CueTable.com/C/?@04AWwC4BbHn4CUnl4VbHn3VbhD3VbhD4VRMm4VTIi4VcGn4VXuS2qQtF&ZZ3uBGP@

I see what you mean on the cuetable. Had this all done Clicked wei formating and the pool table came up.
 
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shot

In the second one, you have the wrong cueball. It's the yellow ball in your diagram, the 2ball in the screwed up pool layout, the one farthest to the right. Were you talking about the same cueball for the first one?
Hadn't thought about a force follow, have to try that. Wonder if I can get enough angle back out to ball three with an almost straight on angle on the red.
I forgot what I ended up trying - I think a reverse shot.
 
Sorry.

The shot I show will still work with the other ball but difficult. The force follow described I also had the wrong CB and again this could be done but the balls are too small. Needs to be perfect.

Here's the shot. Cross Table For me the English is barley off to the right. It's also a two way shot if you happen to miss comming in and hit the long.

http://CueTable.com/C/?@04Abgi4BWHE...VWHE4VcFa4VcFa3Vbqj4VSbs4VSbs4VVEk4VVEk1uBfI@
 
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3kushn said:
Now if you're setup is showing an angle that doesn't allow the cross table shot then you have a standard natural off the yellow to the long then a back up.

MAX LEFT 3/4 ball hit. Hit it firm.

http://CueTable.com/C/?@04AbXg4BWHS...VUvm2VcPY2VcHY2VcHa4VcXX4VcPX4VVtc4VVtd1uBfW@
Click to expand...

Yeah, I might not have had it exactly right in the layout. It should be just a hair beyond the point where you can do a cross table, just barely. I find it hard to gauge on cuetable. The natural is probably the best thing, but man, I hate that shot, I get a little more of a whipout action on my table and I miss to the north a little. Touchy.
 
Ive not seen you play so I appoligize in advance for this if you already know this.

These kinds of shots were you have to manufacture an angle are, I'll say an optical illusion as far as seeing the required hit on the 1st OB.

Come around the table and look at the OB as if the CB were directly accross from the OB, making it a simple natural shot. Look at how you would hit it then. The point of contact is the same as your shot. Notice the cue tip placement I show. No draw. If you put any significant draw you miss the second short rail.

I used to study Harry Sims on these. Sometimes I'd run behind him to see what in the heck is he doing. He never missed them and there was not much effort. My tip placement is how he hit the ball.

Practice this hit with a short angle layout. Play around with the English. Start where I say then adjust. Keep trying till you get it 3 or 4 times in a row and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Try this for a simple practice shot.

http://CueTable.com/C/?@02AavL1BGPV1CXgy1VGPV2VYhT2Vbtd1VXpk1VcIX1VYWB1VYWAzc1uBnX@

Then make it a little tougher.
http://CueTable.com/C/?@02AafA1BGPV1CaCl1VGPV2VYIH2VbtU1VOCp1VcHJ1VaSo1VaSozc1uBnX@

Oh and by the way it's hard for me to place balls perfect on Cuetable too. It just dawned on me that I was'nt looking at you diagram right. We were only talking about 1/2" difference between the two solutions.
 
You shot the right ball but your layout is a dimond off making it a little easier on your solution.

A legitimate solution either way I just think the hit needs to be too perfect. You need a lot of spin going into the 3rd rail otherwise the 2nd OB is really small.

My first solution was exactly your solution but I had the wrong ball.
 
It's weird, not sure why the rail first never even occurred to me, even if it's difficult. It's like you talk yourself into there not being a shot.

Ok, how about this, I inflicted this on myself tonight. White cueball, not touching red, but you have to put your hand over it to see it's not touching. Only thing I could possibly think was off the right side, four rails, but tough.

What if the red ball is still almost touching, but say an inch to the right?

We need to lobby to get the billiard table set up on azbilliards.

http://CueTable.com/C/?@02ANMf4BbSI4CXpI@

http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=5335&posted=1#post5335
 
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eze123 said:
Cueball is white.

http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=4451
Click to expand...

Others have given the cross-table option for the original shot, which I agree is best in that exact position (see [*] below).

Now imagine that the red and yellow are reversed. Or you're too close to the yellow to avoid a foul, or it's too thin of a cut, or whatever. These two patterns are worth considering, and they're much easier than they look at first sight:

Two more possibilities to keep in mind

(They both have a 2nd scoring possibility if you hit it bad, since you can always backup to the short rail and come in behind, too.)

I'm definitely playing one of these if the yellow is off the rail for a big ball in your diagram, and I'm even a lefty that would have to shoot them righty :)

Robert

[*] Your original has the red ball farther from the corner than others who have reproduced the position for their responses. It doesn't matter so much for the cross-table, but I mention it because my first alternative will work in the original but not with the red much closer to the corner.
 
OK Robert, good solutions but you didn't have to take away my excuse for missing it.

I'm a lefty too. You should be a little more considerate of your elders. :smile:
 
I'll have to handicap the lefties next time. Never show your hand!:)

Yeah, good solution, I always forget that close to the corner one. I actually like my odds best on that one, but I forget it when it counts.

This is fun. What about this one? white cueball

Rail first off the red maybe? Something more creative?

http://CueTable.com/C/?@01ADYh1BBdK3Catj@
 
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3kushn said:
OK Robert, good solutions but you didn't have to take away my excuse for missing it.

I'm a lefty too. You should be a little more considerate of your elders. :smile:
Click to expand...

Oops, sorry - I better run and take down this old video then! :)

righty version of the 2nd option from a game with a student (starts at 3:00)

That shot made quite an impression on my memory, thanks to the impression it made on my cue (as you'll see at the start of the clip). I banged my shaft on an overhead TV while switching hands walking around the table. Ouch :(

Robert
 
eze123 said:
I always forget that close to the corner one. I actually like my odds best on that one, but I forget it when it counts.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's easy to forget you can whip out of the corner like that in game situations. We're so conditioned to think that our 4th rail contact has to be longer than our 1st on naturals.

This is fun. What about this one? white cueball

Rail first off the red maybe? Something more creative?

http://CueTable.com/C/?@01ADYh1BBdK3Catj@
Click to expand...

I hate to use the word "never", but I'm tempted to when discussing playing off the red there. :) It's too far away, too sensitive, and you'd be elevated over the yellow when applying the left spin. Also, there's a potential kiss at the 3rd rail with a red that's double-banking along the long rail.

Besides, you'd be dying close to the opponent's ball in a very difficult position, which is not a good recipe for success since he's guaranteed to be able to make a good hit on at least one ball (yours) if you miss.

OTOH, missing while playing from the yellow not only leaves it at the other end of the table, but also leaves the red small in the corner for your opponent. I'm all for offense whenever possible, but not when you have at least two better options with built in defense and an easier hit:

Try one of these

The 2nd option may seem crazy if you don't like cross-table patterns, but it's not so bad. In fact, it's similar in concept to the 2nd shot I made in this video from a game with Ramon Rodriguez:

Shallow plus-2 cross-table? (2nd shot)

I'd never played it before that game, but I just saw it as clear as could be and happened to make it. Of course, then Ramon ran a 13 against me, which I also have posted.

Robert
 
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