Which RULES?

Tom In Cincy

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
When I first started running tournaments I was very flustered about which rules do you go by? The players knew rule sets from as long as 20 years ago to as recent as 'just learning the rules'.

In a perfect pocket billiard world there would be rules that are standard for all games and then game specific rules. Unfortunately that is almost impossible.

Amateur leagues have their own rule (TAP, VENA, BCAL, APA ect.)
Then there are tournament rules (World Standard, BCAL, Texas Express, and Modified House rules that use what they want out of the TE and WSR rules)

Then there are Regional tour rules (mostly modified WSR and TE, and Tour specific)

And the HUGE yearly tournaments (Derby City Classic, Super Billiard Expo [amateur and pros])

Then the US Open decides which rule they want to enforce or abide by at the player's meeting. The players and promoter decide.

Dragon promotions also uses their own set of rules.

Then the UPA (what is left of it) has their own set also.

There are lots of similarities to all the above rules that someone could dig out and everyone could agree upon and then that would be a STANDARD.

I.E. standard for a legal shot (a ball has to hit a rail after the CB hits the correct OB)

Why is it so difficult to have referees for matches? ALL BALL Fouls?

Why should you be obliged to let your opponent make calls? Who ever thought of this?
It is like letting the pitcher call balls and strikes.
 
Tom

I know it can be confusing sometimes, but I prefer BCA (WPA) rules for tournaments and gambling in 8 ball. And for gambling in 9 ball, Texas Express rules (including the 3 foul rule).
 
BCA Rule 1.1 say something like, playersare responsible for know the rules, if you have house rules a players meeting is in order imho before the start of play!
 
I agree also. I have been fortunate enought to be a very close part of the BCA Rules Committe (25 years) and the Texas Express Rules Committe.

Everyone has their own idea about what they want. It sure would be easy if we had that one set to refer to.

I like to play BCA Rules 8-Ball and TX Ex 9-Ball.............SPF=randyg
 
Neil said:
I totally agree that it is ridiculous the amount of different rules that are out there. And, it shows just how disorganized pool really is, that we can't even agree on one set of rules to play the game. Every other sport that I can think of right now, has one set of rules. Not pool.

It's like every little different league, tournament, ect., has to put their own stamp on pool and make up their own rules. It just doesn't make any sense.To me, start at the pros, use the same rules they (usually) use- the WPA rules.
Click to expand...

So the rules for football are all the same. High school, collage, pro, and even Canadian football. All the same... Nope!

Lets try basketball.. hmmm... much the same. Different rules for different leagues and contests. Olympic rules are different than NBA rules which are different than collage.

Poker. Same thing. Different tournaments have different rules. Can you show any of your cards while betting is going on and you're in the hand? Some tournaments you can, others you will have mucked your hand if you do.

The one thing all these have in common, is it's the player responsibility to know the rule of the game, in the venue you're playing in. Period.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
When I first started running tournaments I was very flustered about which rules do you go by? The players knew rule sets from as long as 20 years ago to as recent as 'just learning the rules'.

In a perfect pocket billiard world there would be rules that are standard for all games and then game specific rules. Unfortunately that is almost impossible.

Amateur leagues have their own rule (TAP, VENA, BCAL, APA ect.)
Then there are tournament rules (World Standard, BCAL, Texas Express, and Modified House rules that use what they want out of the TE and WSR rules)

Then there are Regional tour rules (mostly modified WSR and TE, and Tour specific)

And the HUGE yearly tournaments (Derby City Classic, Super Billiard Expo [amateur and pros])

Then the US Open decides which rule they want to enforce or abide by at the player's meeting. The players and promoter decide.

Dragon promotions also uses their own set of rules.

Then the UPA (what is left of it) has their own set also.

There are lots of similarities to all the above rules that someone could dig out and everyone could agree upon and then that would be a STANDARD.

I.E. standard for a legal shot (a ball has to hit a rail after the CB hits the correct OB)

Why is it so difficult to have referees for matches? ALL BALL Fouls?

Why should you be obliged to let your opponent make calls? Who ever thought of this?
It is like letting the pitcher call balls and strikes.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. As someone who is really trying to learn this game and learn the rules of this game I truly feel sorry to the beginners who want to learn and want to play within the rules because it is really tough.
I believe the rules should be more strict for the Professionals and less strict for the league players and amatures. The rules are different in college football, college basketball and college baseball compared to their counterparts in the professional world. Each player must adapt to the rule changes when they go pro. IMHO
 
But even in pro arenas, rules are different. International rules differ from this pro league, or that pro league etc. Rules for EU pro basketball are different than NBA. Both are pro events, but the rules do have differences.

Take the time to go over what rules you are playing by, and play by those rules.
Pool is all about adaptation. It's in all parts of the game. 7' bar tables vs 7' smart tables vs 8' tables vs 9' tables vs 10' tables. Pocket openings can be between 4 1/8 up to 5 3/8 (may not be exact, but it's close).
Playing on shag felt or 860 simonis, valley rails or acufast rails. Humid vs dry.
It's all about adapting you game to where you're playing. Adapt to the rules as well.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
When I first started running tournaments I was very flustered about which rules do you go by? The players knew rule sets from as long as 20 years ago to as recent as 'just learning the rules'.

In a perfect pocket billiard world there would be rules that are standard for all games and then game specific rules. Unfortunately that is almost impossible.

Amateur leagues have their own rule (TAP, VENA, BCAL, APA ect.)
Then there are tournament rules (World Standard, BCAL, Texas Express, and Modified House rules that use what they want out of the TE and WSR rules)

Then there are Regional tour rules (mostly modified WSR and TE, and Tour specific)
And the HUGE yearly tournaments (Derby City Classic, Super Billiard Expo [amateur and pros])

Then the US Open decides which rule they want to enforce or abide by at the player's meeting. The players and promoter decide.

Dragon promotions also uses their own set of rules.

Then the UPA (what is left of it) has their own set also.

There are lots of similarities to all the above rules that someone could dig out and everyone could agree upon and then that would be a STANDARD.

I.E. standard for a legal shot (a ball has to hit a rail after the CB hits the correct OB)

Why is it so difficult to have referees for matches? ALL BALL Fouls?

Why should you be obliged to let your opponent make calls? Who ever thought of this?
It is like letting the pitcher call balls and strikes.
Click to expand...




Welcome to America the Land of ' RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM '.That is where the problem is.:cool:
 
I used to be perplexed at the situation until I mellowed out and took the attitude that any organized pool is good (i.e., better than nothing) and whoever sponsors/runs the show can implement whatever rules they want (because it's their ball of wax).

That said, I'm sure glad when the events have objective rules (such as the 8-ball tournament you run on Tues. nights Tom) versus the 8-ball league that I currently play in that has a "no chicken shit allowed" rule. That is, no safety play is allowed, no penality for a table scratch, you must kick at a ball in the kitchen if all your balls are in the kitchen and the other person scratches, etc. IMHO, the only "chicken shit" thing about those rules is the subjective chicken shit rule itself that allows people to get POed at someone else because of what they think the other person might have "intended" to do. Kinda like having thought police.
 
Thanks Woody.

The Chicken $hit rules are very typical of the players with little or no knowledge of the game.

They are just part of pool and probably will always be, just hopefully, a small percentage.


WoodyJ said:
I used to be perplexed at the situation until I mellowed out and took the attitude that any organized pool is good (i.e., better than nothing) and whoever sponsors/runs the show can implement whatever rules they want (because it's their ball of wax).

That said, I'm sure glad when the events have objective rules (such as the 8-ball tournament you run on Tues. nights Tom) versus the 8-ball league that I currently play in that has a "no chicken shit allowed" rule. That is, no safety play is allowed, no penality for a table scratch, you must kick at a ball in the kitchen if all your balls are in the kitchen and the other person scratches, etc. IMHO, the only "chicken shit" thing about those rules is the subjective chicken shit rule itself that allows people to get POed at someone else because of what they think the other person might have "intended" to do. Kinda like having thought police.
Click to expand...
 
Another reason to avoid those 'team' events... mostly in LEAGUES.

But, those "TEAM" leagues account for almost 400,000 players a week in those Bars and Pool halls that rely on the $$$ spent by those weekly players.

Can't discount that $$$ input to the industry... they have to have a break cue, shooting cue, case to carry them in and all those little tools to maintain them. That times 400,000 is a multimillion dollar industry just for the amateurs. Plus they usually eat and do 'a little drinking' And those Vegas championship tournaments.... WOW.

Wouldn't the PROS (those Rugged Individuals) like a piece of that action?

vagabond said:
Welcome to America the Land of ' RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM '.That is where the problem is.:cool:
Click to expand...
 
Lets get this straight. (hopefully for the last time COCO)

The BCA only publishes the World Standard Rules, these rule are administered by the World Billiards Pool Association. The BCA is not a pool player's organization any more and hasn't been since they sold the league system. The BCA is an industry trade show org.

The UPA, VNEA, APA, TAP, BCAL, SBE, DCC and all those other pool halls that have their own little additions called HOUSE RULES or Promoter rules... Exactly which ones apply to your reply?

If the players are responsible to know the rules, Which ones are you talking about... partner?

CocoboloCowboy said:
BCA Rule 1.1 say something like, playersare responsible for know the rules, if you have house rules a players meeting is in order imho before the start of play!
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top