Foul or no foul?

[telinoz]

I get ball in hand when the other players has committed a foul (as per WPA rules).
I then go to place the ball on the table but I drop the ball and it lands in the pocket!
Is this considered a foul, which means my opponent now has ball in hand?

Any referees on this forum trained to WPA standards?
OR
Please show me a link to official rules that covers this situation.

 

[BVal]

I get ball in hand when the other players has committed a foul (as per WPA rules).
I then go to place the ball on the table but I drop the ball and it lands in the pocket!
Is this considered a foul, which means my opponent now has ball in hand?

Any referees on this forum trained to WPA standards?
OR
Please show me a link to official rules that covers this situation.

If you dropped the cue ball in a pocket it is not a foul. I don't have the official rules but I have never ever heard of that being a foul.

Did this happen to you? If yes, what was the outcome at the time?

BVal

 

[telinoz]

No, a friend if mine at a league night.
Nobody knew what to do!
So they said No Foul.

But it is interesting situation.

 

[BVal]

No, a friend if mine at a league night.
Nobody knew what to do!
So they said No Foul.

But it is interesting situation.

If he dropped it on the table and it hit a ball it would be a foul but dropping it in the pocket would be nothing more than a simple mistake.

BVal

 

[tucson9ball]

I'm not a referee but if you have ball in hand and just accidentally drop the cue ball in the pocket it should not be a foul. It's the same as if you drop it on the floor. Let's say you are playing on a 9ft table, your opponent scratches and you get ball in hand. Your playing on drop pockets so you have to retreive the ball out of the pocket. When you grab the ball you could easily drop it back in the same pocket. This is not a foul, it would only be a foul if you somehow bumped another ball on the table. You can place the cue ball anywhere and pick it up again as long as you don't touch it with your cue in a stroking manner.
I would say no foul for dropping it accidentally in a pocket.

 

[weirdhen]

You can place the cue ball anywhere and pick it up again as long as you don't touch it with your cue in a stroking manner.

Careful with that, the rules say nothing about the cue having to touch it in a stroking manner, touching the cue ball with the tip of the cue in any form would be considered a foul, stroking or not.

 

[tucson9ball]

Careful with that, the rules say nothing about the cue having to touch it in a stroking manner, touching the cue ball with the tip of the cue in any form would be considered a foul, stroking or not.

Very true, I've seen some nit picky players call a foul on a guy who was obviously just moving the cue ball over a half inch. Be careful when moving the ball, better off doing it by hand. You got me there....good eye.

 

[sfleinen]

I get ball in hand when the other players has committed a foul (as per WPA rules).
I then go to place the ball on the table but I drop the ball and it lands in the pocket!
Is this considered a foul, which means my opponent now has ball in hand?

Any referees on this forum trained to WPA standards?
OR
Please show me a link to official rules that covers this situation.

I think the thing here is, knowing the difference between "the spirit of the law" and "the letter of the law." I think you won't find this exact scenario described in the WPA rules, but any referee selected to judge this scenario would tell you this is NOT a foul. Reason: this is the same as dropping the cue ball on the floor; you didn't drop it onto the table surface, and most of all, you certainly didn't disturb the position of any balls on the table.

During the 2006 IPT World 8-ball Championship (methinks during his match with Rodney Morris), Charlie Bryant had ball in hand, and was in the process of placing the cue ball on the table with his bridge hand, when the cue ball slipped out of his hand (remember, Charlie Bryant wears a glove on that hand) and the cue ball was sent bouncing down the table. The referee did not call "foul!" until the bouncing cue ball actually hit another object ball, disturbing that object ball's position. Allison Fisher was commentating during that match, and she said she never saw anything like it, but agreed that the referee performed admirably, watching the bouncing cue ball closely, waiting for any contact with an object ball, and immediately calling "foul!" upon witnessing an object ball disturbance.

I hope that helps!
-Sean

 

[telinoz]

Thanks everyone, seems pretty conclusive that this is not a foul.

 

[sfleinen]

Careful with that, the rules say nothing about the cue having to touch it in a stroking manner, touching the cue ball with the tip of the cue in any form would be considered a foul, stroking or not.

Efren Reyes took a 15-ball deliberate foul penalty by doing just this, touching the cue ball with the ferrule of his cue (not the leather tip), when attempting to take an intentional foul, during his match with Dallas West during the 2000 U.S. Open 14.1 Straight Pool tournament. Prior to this, Efren had a beautiful 141-ball run during that match, and ended-up winning the match easily, but this was the first time in recent memory that a player of Efren's stature was so severely penalized for "not contacting the cue ball with the tip of the cue." This match is available on Accu-Stats:

http://accu-stats.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=000607

Highly recommended -- Efren's 141-ball run is poetry in motion!

-Sean

 

[AtLarge]

...touching the cue ball with the tip of the cue in any form would be considered a foul, stroking or not.

That's no longer true. Section 1.5 (Cue Ball in Hand) of the General Rules allows the shooter with cue ball in hand to place the cue ball anywhere on the playing surface and continue to move it until he executes a shot. "Players may use any part of the cue stick to move the cue ball, including the tip, but not with a forward stroke motion."