Cue Collecting: Counting Inlays

[classiccues]

So you're sitting there with a cue in your hands while counting inlays... What would you classify as an inlay and what you would not? There are some things that sit in gray space where some would argue as being an inlay and some would say it isn't. Just thought I'd throw that question out there since we've seen quite a few collector questions lately.

I, myself, have a good idea, but would like to see what others have to say. There are the obvious and there are the not so obvious.

To use an example, here is a TAD cue from the J&J Cue website.

Just one window alone, I count 26 inlays: 24 veneer inlays, 1 ebony window inlay, and 1 notched diamond inlay. Correct me if I'm wrong, looking to get the counting right.

For the rings, would you count the ebony inset between the micarta and the MOP if the base of the ring is made of ebony?

The description would depend on how you want to sell the cue. What you really have would depend on the feelings of the person with the cue. For example:

Rings: Each one of those "ringsets" appears to be a three piece ring. The center has a larger ring proportionally cut to look like a square, where the smaller rings are cut to be dashes. However in my description as a seller I would list that as well as say there are 24 pieces of ivory in each ringset with 8 ebony inlays and 8 MOP inlays. But notice I said "pieces" of ivory and not inlays. So in the butt of that cue you have 2 ringsets, 48 pieces of ivory as well as 16 ebony inlays and 16 MOP inlays.

If the boxes are inlaid as one piece units, which I believe they are, they are one inlay with an ivory slotted diamond inlaid. But you could expand on that description as well. They are stacked veneer boxes and not mitered. Each box uses 20 pieces of veneers as well as the ebony center. Each box would then contain 22 pieces.

As a seller I would use all of this to my advantage during a sale in a very descriptive way. I would let the reader determine what all this means to them in the purchase of the cue.

FTR - that would only be if the cue is ivory, obviously...

JV

 

[Drawman623]

Rings: Each one of those "ringsets" appears to be a three piece ring. The center has a larger ring proportionally cut to look like a square, where the smaller rings are cut to be dashes. However in my description as a seller I would list that as well as say there are 24 pieces of ivory in each ringset with 8 ebony inlays and 8 MOP inlays. But notice I said "pieces" of ivory and not inlays. So in the butt of that cue you have 2 ringsets, 48 pieces of ivory as well as 16 ebony inlays and 16 MOP inlays.

If the boxes are inlaid as one piece units, which I believe they are, they are one inlay with an ivory slotted diamond inlaid. But you could expand on that description as well. They are stacked veneer boxes and not mitered. Each box uses 20 pieces of veneers as well as the ebony center. Each box would then contain 22 pieces.

JV

I agree. Joe has explained this well for the example cue. If something with many pieces is constructed outside the cue then added as a single inlay, it counts as one for me. That being said, however, construction methodology determines how I count inlays.

Some makers are inclined to do things the slow hard way because that is the style they prefer. Garten Bierbower, for instance, individually inlayed each ivory square in his ringwork. He cut the ivory box frames and inlayed them so that the grain pattern of the narra burl butt sleeve would not be interupted. In this case, each ivory square and the two parts of the window, I count as a seperate inlay. The ivory rings are parts, not inlays.

This purple heart and maple cue by Dave Albrecht has no inlays in my opinion. It looks like there are long tiger maple windows inlayed into the forearm. At close inspection, however, it becomes clear that with the taper of the forearm, they change in width. Also, a glue line above and below the windows is evident. So what I think happened here was that the cuebiulder created the effect of inlayed windows by taking a long dowel of maple and purple heart then gluing pieces of all purple heart above and below to make the cue forearm. Theoretically simple, solid, but involving no inlay work.

 

[skins]

There is no way you can count all the work in any given cue, for obvious reasons......

???.....a bit confused by this response.....if you know the makers methods then of course you can......

 

[calboy8686]

Hey J.... I called TAD directly and his wife (I think was the one I spoke to) told me to contact J&J America. When are we gonna get together and shoot. You got my number.... use it!! I can come to you, or you to me... either way..... bottom line is shooting pool and talking about pool. R

I believe the points are the exception because the Blue Book of Pool Cues classifies cues by number of points and then by number of inlays.





Sorry Ron, forgot to mention that... You can talk to Tad about the cue you are considering getting commissioned, but you have to go through J&J America in order to commission it. Last I talked to J&J America, I was turned down on the commission because he said Tad was too busy. I don't really know for certain though...

hm... It obviously seems like everyone has a different perspective on this subject. I'm glad that I asked. I think it would be a good idea to bring some cue makers into this discussion to see what they say. I'll have to ask Tad and Fred next time I visit so that I can share their input, unless someone plans to call them first and ask.

 

[mamono]

I agree. Joe has explained this well for the example cue. If something with many pieces is constructed outside the cue then added as a single inlay, it counts as one for me. That being said, however, construction methodology determines how I count inlays.

Lets use a McDermott D-23 for example. Say that the rose in the micarta was created outside the cue, then placed inside the butt sleeve. So, all the roses were done ahead of time prior to being placed into the butt sleeve. Would that make it 1 inlay? The rose itself, if closely examined, consist of several pieces. Its not that clear in my picture, but it was when I had the cue... Oh well...

When are we gonna get together and shoot. You got my number.... use it!! I can come to you, or you to me... either way..... bottom line is shooting pool and talking about pool. R

Soon, honest! Will let ya know!

 

[jayman]

If you look closely at the veneer box, you can see the cut of each side. It takes 4 veneers per box, so would it still be considered 1 inlay or 4 inlays?

The veneers are not counted as an inlay. It would be described as four veneered box inlays and four inlay-ed diamonds. Same as you would describe a cue with points. You would say for example,.. four points with four veneers. Then you'd describe any inlays.

 

[classiccues]

Lets use a McDermott D-23 for example. Say that the rose in the micarta was created outside the cue, then placed inside the butt sleeve. So, all the roses were done ahead of time prior to being placed into the butt sleeve. Would that make it 1 inlay? The rose itself, if closely examined, consist of several pieces. Its not that clear in my picture, but it was when I had the cue... Oh well...

Soon, honest! Will let ya know!

In discussing production cues, the only thing you should be counting is how long it takes for the garbage man to pick it up... :grin:

Seriously I always thought that rose will etched and filled.

JV

 

[mamono]

In discussing production cues, the only thing you should be counting is how long it takes for the garbage man to pick it up... :grin:

Seriously I always thought that rose will etched and filled.

When I was doing research on the McDermott D-23, it was classified by McDermott as having 20 inlays used to make a single rose. That's why I used it as an example. Just wanted people's opinions.

 

[Drawman623]

Lets use a McDermott D-23 for example. Say that the rose in the micarta was created outside the cue, then placed inside the butt sleeve. So, all the roses were done ahead of time prior to being placed into the butt sleeve. Would that make it 1 inlay? The rose itself, if closely examined, consist of several pieces. Its not that clear in my picture, but it was when I had the cue... Oh well...

Soon, honest! Will let ya know!

I doubt the rose is an inlay at all. I suspect the router cut out the pattern then colored epoxy was poured into the channel.

It looks like several white inlays form the flower itself, but I seriously doubt this is how the cue was made.

1 white oval inlay is all I see.