what too look for in a milling machine?

what do i need travel wise. id also like powerfeed obv. so im looking at this machine or something comp from grizzly. also what pieces are recommeded for holding the cue. i need i guess a vise and then an indexing set up of some sort. any help would be appreciated


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007

I have that exact same machine but from Horrible Fright. It never came with the feed but I purchased it separately on e-bay for a little less than 200.00. The machine I got was on sale for 699.00 but the store only had one left that had some rust on the post so they knocked 150.00 off. It took me about an hour using diesel fuel to clean it up. It's give me no problems for the 5 or 6 years I've owned it. I bought a 5" vice for it and it is really overkill as it limits the amount of Z travail to much. The vice that I bought can rotate and has a degree wheel on it but truthfully, it is worthless for setting the degrees for cutting the points as they are so minute. After trying to cut points with the jig held in the vice I went a different way and it works perfectly. I took a 1 X 3 aluminum bar and mounted a 360 deg. 5C collet holder that can be bought on e-bay for 30-40.00 on one end and on the other I mounted a tail stock. In the 5C closer I put in one of Lee's indexing jigs so that I can mount the prong, remove and then remount perfectly indexed again. On the bottom of this aluminum bar, near one end, I put on a piece of aluminum bar that is a snug fit in the grooves on the table. I used one 1/4X20 bolt to hold this in place so that it can twist a little.

Now when I want to use this jig I just drop it onto the table with the pivot on one slot and I then clamp the fixture to the table. This fixture holds the prong perfectly straight between centers. Now to get the proper angle for cutting a point to the length and depth that I desire, I spent about a half a day and turned some dowels to the finished diameter at the joint and where the A-joint would be but made them around 15" long. I then started cutting V-grooves at different angles and depths until I came up with the ratio that I wanted so that my points come out to 9" long and almost touching at the A-joint on a 4 point cue. I did this with 4 points 5 points 6 points all even and 6 points 3 high and 3 low.

Once I had a point to the proper length and depth that I wanted I used my Digital caliper and measured from a mark I had put on the jig to the side of the table. In this way I can mount the jig and set the correct angle in only a minute or so. I wrote down these measurements for each number of points. For the depth of cuts I would measure the exact diameter of the dowel exactly where I wanted the points to start near the A-joint. I take this measurement which say is 1.100ths. I divide in half giving me .5500 to the center. Since I want the points to nearly touch in the back I need to make my cuts close to the center of the dowel. I cut to .040 from the center. This only leaves .080 to hold the prong together until the points and veneer work are glued in so you must be very careful handling the prong once the Vs have been cut. Using Lee's indexing jig makes it much easier as you can just cut 2 Vs, glue the points in, make a clean up pass and then re-index and do your other two as the first two has now stabilized the prong. By using Lee's jig you can actually make your V cut to the exact center of the prong and then the points and veneers will touch in the rear.

I'm spraying cues right now but a little later I'll take some pictures and send you of the jig. It's simple to build fairly cheaply and works perfectly.

DSC_0001-26.jpg


This is the lug on the bottom of the fixture to pivot on.

DSC_0002-22.jpg


This picture shows how messy the shop is and the fixture on the table of the mill. One end has a 360 deg. indexer with Lee's re-indexing jig installed and the tail-stock with a half faced center.

DSC_0003-15.jpg


This just shows where I measure to set the angle on the fixture for what ever angle of cut is needed.

DSC_0004-7.jpg


This shows the prong in the fixture ready to be V grooved.

DSC_0005-6.jpg


This is a picture of the cutter in place ready for the cut .

DSC_00011-1.jpg


This is a picture of the V groove cut and Lee's re-indexer in use.

Dick
 
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thanks dick i saw you pics in another post. is that the same machine? i was hoping you would post about this machine. thanks for your help. pics would help a great deal also. maybe i ahve to read a few times but your description sounds difficult but im sure if i see it it will ve clearer. i like lees fixture i want my points to touch also... so i want to be able to take it out glue 2 in and remount
 
thanks dick i saw you pics in another post. is that the same machine? i was hoping you would post about this machine. thanks for your help. pics would help a great deal also. maybe i ahve to read a few times but your description sounds difficult but im sure if i see it it will ve clearer. i like lees fixture i want my points to touch also... so i want to be able to take it out glue 2 in and remount

Actually this is a very easy way to cut the Vs with very repeatable results. Once you have the measurements for your jig for the length and depth of points you want in your finished cue. It makes no difference what the diameter of the dowel you are using is either as your measurements for cutting are from the center of the dowel. The reason that I didn't use the vice is the degree increments aren't nearly big enough. You only need about 3/4 of one degree to make a 4 pointer. Just a few thousandths difference in t5he measurement at the back of the fixture will make a difference in final point length. So as to not waste so much wood when you are determining the the proper offset of the rear of the fixture you need to just take a dowel and taper the same as the final taper on one of your cues. Mine is .840 at joint and 1.010 at 12 inch. On my fixture the prong must be longer at this stage however so that the cutter doesn't make contact with the indexer. Anyway at the 12.5 inch mark is where I measure my diameter and where I start the cut on dowel. The first time, when you are experimenting, just make the offset on the jig a little more offset. This will make your point when it is at your final depth, probably shorter than you would like. Now you can just make a small adjustment in offset and make another pass with the cutter but don't change the final depth. This will keep the point at the same distance from center at the back but will make the V cut longer. Just keep doing this until you have the length of point that you want. Once you have cut a V at the depth and length you desire you just measure from the side of the mill table to the same place on the jig and write this measurement down as it will never change.

For larger amounts of points, 5, 6 or 8 it is a little more difficult to come up with the proper depth and offset as there is not enough room in the back to go nearly to the center without overlapping the points but, as I said earlier, once you have the numbers they never change so one day of experimenting and your set for life.

Dick
 
what do i need travel wise. id also like powerfeed obv. so im looking at this machine or something comp from grizzly. also what pieces are recommeded for holding the cue. i need i guess a vise and then an indexing set up of some sort. any help would be appreciated


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-w-Variable-Speed-Power-Feed/G1007

With regards to table travel, on the 'X' axis, anything longer than the length of the point that you want to cut is sufficient.
The 'Y' axis is equally important in that ALL of your fixturing is BEHIND the spindle/quill.

I have pretty much the same machine as what you're looking at but got a similar deal to what Dick got. Mill, stand & pwr.fd. = $1,100. No s/h. I went to Detroit to pick it up.
 
i have a grizzly in pa. i guess i could take a trip. i dont think its cost efficient to pick it up is freight is 150 i prob will spend 4 or 5 hours plus 80 some dollars for the trip. prob should just pay 150 and get it delivered.

thanks for the pics dick. did you machine all them aluminum parts yourself? i am not very savy when it comes to making parts or finding stuff so i usually just spend... i understand now that i see some pics...

right now i just use my lathe and i was considering making up just a dovetail with indexer offset tailstock carrige and use my router like now. id rather do the milling machine way just need to get the pieces together. i just want a dedicated machine i dont have to move anymore. plus ive had a few orders for some high low 6 points so i want to get set up for that also
 
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I have that exact same machine but from Horrible Fright. It never came with the feed but I purchased it separately on e-bay for a little less than 200.00. The machine I got was on sale for 699.00 but the store only had one left that had some rust on the post so they knocked 150.00 off. It took me about an hour using diesel fuel to clean it up. It's give me no problems for the 5 or 6 years I've owned it. I bought a 5" vice for it and it is really overkill as it limits the amount of Z travail to much. The vice that I bought can rotate and has a degree wheel on it but truthfully, it is worthless for setting the degrees for cutting the points as they are so minute. After trying to cut points with the jig held in the vice I went a different way and it works perfectly. I took a 1 X 3 aluminum bar and mounted a 360 deg. 5C collet holder that can be bought on e-bay for 30-40.00 on one end and on the other I mounted a tail stock. In the 5C closer I put in one of Lee's indexing jigs so that I can mount the prong, remove and then remount perfectly indexed again. On the bottom of this aluminum bar, near one end, I put on a piece of aluminum bar that is a snug fit in the grooves on the table. I used one 1/4X20 bolt to hold this in place so that it can twist a little.

Now when I want to use this jig I just drop it onto the table with the pivot on one slot and I then clamp the fixture to the table. This fixture holds the prong perfectly straight between centers. Now to get the proper angle for cutting a point to the length and depth that I desire, I spent about a half a day and turned some dowels to the finished diameter at the joint and where the A-joint would be but made them around 15" long. I then started cutting V-grooves at different angles and depths until I came up with the ratio that I wanted so that my points come out to 9" long and almost touching at the A-joint on a 4 point cue. I did this with 4 points 5 points 6 points all even and 6 points 3 high and 3 low.

Once I had a point to the proper length and depth that I wanted I used my Digital caliper and measured from a mark I had put on the jig to the side of the table. In this way I can mount the jig and set the correct angle in only a minute or so. I wrote down these measurements for each number of points. For the depth of cuts I would measure the exact diameter of the dowel exactly where I wanted the points to start near the A-joint. I take this measurement which say is 1.100ths. I divide in half giving me .5500 to the center. Since I want the points to nearly touch in the back I need to make my cuts close to the center of the dowel. I cut to .040 from the center. This only leaves .080 to hold the prong together until the points and veneer work are glued in so you must be very careful handling the prong once the Vs have been cut. Using Lee's indexing jig makes it much easier as you can just cut 2 Vs, glue the points in, make a clean up pass and then re-index and do your other two as the first two has now stabilized the prong. By using Lee's jig you can actually make your V cut to the exact center of the prong and then the points and veneers will touch in the rear.

I'm spraying cues right now but a little later I'll take some pictures and send you of the jig. It's simple to build fairly cheaply and works perfectly.

DSC_0001-26.jpg


This is the lug on the bottom of the fixture to pivot on.

DSC_0002-22.jpg


This picture shows how messy the shop is and the fixture on the table of the mill. One end has a 360 deg. indexer with Lee's re-indexing jig installed and the tail-stock with a half faced center.

DSC_0003-15.jpg


This just shows where I measure to set the angle on the fixture for what ever angle of cut is needed.

DSC_0004-7.jpg


This shows the prong in the fixture ready to be V grooved.

DSC_0005-6.jpg


This is a picture of the cutter in place ready for the cut .

DSC_00011-1.jpg


This is a picture of the V groove cut and Lee's re-indexer in use.

Dick

Very nice machine Dick.
 
When I'm looking at milling machines, the single most important thing is where the power switch is,:grin-square::grin-square:


I really value my fingers and I stay the hell away from them and let you cue makers work your magic. I look but dont touch
 
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