These are the things you should try!
(and perhaps "Grady s tip" )That should fix your problem with some pratice.
lg
Ingo
off the rail shot tips
- Thread starter BRKNRUN
- Start date
These are the things you should try!
(and perhaps "Grady s tip" )That should fix your problem with some pratice.
lg
Ingo
Andrew:
Great info, especially the part about the grip. I personally use a rear-fingered (also called "rear-of-the-hand") grip when I play these shots, especially if I have to figure out a way to jack up and punch the cue ball into the table a bit, for a stop shot. (Which, if it's not the money ball, Murphy's Law states that shooting this shot by hitting the top of the cue ball means you'll overrun position for the next shot, right?)
Keeping the cue tip down on the ball is paramount to avoiding a miscue. Like Neil posted, a level cue "is not 'it'." You have to follow the slight downward contour of the cushion. Using a rear-fingered grip helps to keep the cue tip pressed downward onto the cushion (or your hand bridge, depending on the shot) so as to avoid the miscue. Obviously, an evenly-chalked tip is mandatory for this shot.
One thing, though, and it should be obvious. Pool players seem to universally despise this type of shot, yet they don't do anything about it. How about practicing this shot? Snooker players do, because "cueball-frozen-to-the-cushion" safeties are very common in snooker.
Instead of going "ugh, not this gosh-damned shot again," why not make it one of your favorite shots to practice? How about incorporating into your practice routine a full diagonal table length shot, cue ball in the center spot of the table (dead smack center between the two side pockets), cue ball frozen to the cushion by one of the corner pockets (say, a half-diamond away from the corner pocket on the short rail), and shooting the object ball straight into the far corner pocket? Personally, I practice these for 5 or 10 minutes at various points on the table. I don't even bat an eye when these shots come up -- especially in my favored game of 1-pocket, where I'm frozen on the cushion and I have to bank a shot back at me, towards my pocket.
The only way to get better at these shots, is to practice them. The tips presented here in this thread by various posters all offer great advice.
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Exactly the reason I started this thread... I am looking for the more obscure tips for this shot so I know exactly what to practice. Believe me..I will try everything....I expect like all other things that some things will work for me and some won't...I will incorporate what works and hopefully (through practice) will eliminate this current problem.
One of the hardest shots for me (and the one I go "ugh") is when the cue is at an angle to the rail....If the shot is farily straight off the rail (meaning the cue and the rail form a T) I don't have much problem aiming this shot...The more the bottom part of the T (the cue) is at an angle to the rial I seem to have problems lining up this shot and then hitting where I was aiming
I don't have a problem with the miscue and I was alread using a slight elevated cue for the off the rail shot...(although the matching the rail angle is a great idea especially for me as I am very "reference oriented" type player)
It is not the I never make these shots...I just have a tendancy to miss and it usually ends up being a key ball shot in the rack
The kick starter for all this was this weekend at the Swanee...I was down 3-4 in my second round match and ran down to the 9 ball and ended up on the rail with an other wise very simple shot...(I know I am not supposed to be on the rail for a 9-ball shot)...you guessed it...not only did I dog it but I missed it just bad enough to hang it in the pocket for my opponent.
Had I made this shot the match momentum would have been way in my favor...I feel I would have won it from there...Instead that shot gave my opponent new life (and the match away) as I did not get another decent look until I was down 3-7
make sure your arm is at a 90 degree angle (or failing that, whatever it usually is), and follow through. Best way to make 'em.
It is much easier with a wedge shaped tip.You either need another shaft or a good changeable tip system.
Neil
Good fundamentals will help a lot in this situation. Stay down!
I just found this video this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnD0O3fw6Ls
It's Thorsten doing a frozen rail PAT drill - and there are plenty of good camera angles showing you how he does it, where he hits the CB, etc...
enjoy.
It's Thorsten doing a frozen rail PAT drill - and there are plenty of good camera angles showing you how he does it, where he hits the CB, etc...
enjoy.
Typo in previous post, but corrected.
BRKNRUN:
I just realized, reading back your quote of my post, that I had a bad typo in it. I meant to say "object ball" instead of cue ball in the original, as it should've said here:
Anyway, this is a really good thread -- and brings to light one of those shots that are a problem shot for many a player. It's interesting reading through the various takes on solving it, and it shows the pool playing crowd are a creative bunch.
So while I bring up the point of "why complain about something that can be addressed with a bit of focused practice," I do so constructively -- pointed at the royal "you" (i.e. pool players in general), not you personally, BRKNRUN.
I feel for you in hanging that 9-ball from one of these types of shots. The ultimate punishment. Ouch.
As for the issues with aiming this shot when the shot is not perpendicular to the cushion (i.e. that "T" you're talking about), how are you forming your hand bridge on the cushion? Do you use the traditional rail bridge formed by letting the cue rest on the rail, against your bridge hand's thumb, and your bridge hand's index finger looped over the shaft, pressing down on the other side of the shaft (and slightly pulling in -- but not enough to cause drag)? Or are you using some other form of hand bridge on these tops of non-perpendicular-to-the-cushion shots? Have you tried using some of the other types of hand bridges, demonstrated by Steve Davis in the below video?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pfksev2sj0Y#t=321
(The "#t=321" will take you to 5:21 in the video, where Steve demonstrates the hand bridges he uses to address a cue ball frozen to the cushion. You may even want to take a peek at the prior 5 or so minutes, where he goes over the various hand bridges used to address the cue ball at varying distances from the cushion.)
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
BRKNRUN:
I just realized, reading back your quote of my post, that I had a bad typo in it. I meant to say "object ball" instead of cue ball in the original, as it should've said here:
...How about incorporating into your practice routine a full diagonal table length shot, object ball in the center spot of the table (dead smack center between the two side pockets), cue ball frozen to the cushion by one of the corner pockets (say, a half-diamond away from the corner pocket on the short rail), and shooting the object ball straight into the far corner pocket?...
Anyway, this is a really good thread -- and brings to light one of those shots that are a problem shot for many a player. It's interesting reading through the various takes on solving it, and it shows the pool playing crowd are a creative bunch.
So while I bring up the point of "why complain about something that can be addressed with a bit of focused practice," I do so constructively -- pointed at the royal "you" (i.e. pool players in general), not you personally, BRKNRUN.
I feel for you in hanging that 9-ball from one of these types of shots. The ultimate punishment. Ouch.
As for the issues with aiming this shot when the shot is not perpendicular to the cushion (i.e. that "T" you're talking about), how are you forming your hand bridge on the cushion? Do you use the traditional rail bridge formed by letting the cue rest on the rail, against your bridge hand's thumb, and your bridge hand's index finger looped over the shaft, pressing down on the other side of the shaft (and slightly pulling in -- but not enough to cause drag)? Or are you using some other form of hand bridge on these tops of non-perpendicular-to-the-cushion shots? Have you tried using some of the other types of hand bridges, demonstrated by Steve Davis in the below video?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pfksev2sj0Y#t=321
(The "#t=321" will take you to 5:21 in the video, where Steve demonstrates the hand bridges he uses to address a cue ball frozen to the cushion. You may even want to take a peek at the prior 5 or so minutes, where he goes over the various hand bridges used to address the cue ball at varying distances from the cushion.)
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
The under and over shot
I invented (probably re-invented) a trick that has worked exceptionally well for me. First I jack up a little and I do use a firmer back hand to be sure that I follow through on the vetical center. What has helped the most is what I call the under and over shot.
There is a type of gun that has a 222 barrel on top of a 12 gauge shot gun barrel. It was called an under and over when I was a kid. Aim the cue ball thinking or imagining an under and over gun. I think in terms of a 22 over a 30 cal but whatever works.
When I aim the rail shot I am looking through the top sight but the bullet (striking area) will be at the center of the cue ball. When I aim with this offset and a firm stroke through vertical center I am more likely to make the shot including length of table shots.
The whole imagery thing is difficult to explain so I just call it the under and over shot.
BTW I have also found that this type of imagery also works when I have to use max top spin and I am not on the rail.
I invented (probably re-invented) a trick that has worked exceptionally well for me. First I jack up a little and I do use a firmer back hand to be sure that I follow through on the vetical center. What has helped the most is what I call the under and over shot.
There is a type of gun that has a 222 barrel on top of a 12 gauge shot gun barrel. It was called an under and over when I was a kid. Aim the cue ball thinking or imagining an under and over gun. I think in terms of a 22 over a 30 cal but whatever works.
When I aim the rail shot I am looking through the top sight but the bullet (striking area) will be at the center of the cue ball. When I aim with this offset and a firm stroke through vertical center I am more likely to make the shot including length of table shots.
The whole imagery thing is difficult to explain so I just call it the under and over shot.
BTW I have also found that this type of imagery also works when I have to use max top spin and I am not on the rail.
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Pretty much everything that you need has been posted, except maybe a bit about the bridge. Here is what I think works well (in order).
1. Get a comfortable floating bridge off the rail. Four fingers touching the rail, thumb pinched a little closer than you might usually do for an open bridge.
2. Aim downward a little, along the slope of the rail
3. Downward pressure created by your back hand is great. Some purists might say it's wrong or unnecessary but I truly think it helps and it's sort of a neat open secret.
4. No big movements or big follow throw. Shoot it like a close soft follow shot. You're just tapping the ball and rolling it forward into the OB. God help you if you need to crush it with force follow. It can be done but it's no fun.
If you're used to shooting with an open bridge almost all the time, you'll find this feels more natural I think.
1. Get a comfortable floating bridge off the rail. Four fingers touching the rail, thumb pinched a little closer than you might usually do for an open bridge.
2. Aim downward a little, along the slope of the rail
3. Downward pressure created by your back hand is great. Some purists might say it's wrong or unnecessary but I truly think it helps and it's sort of a neat open secret.
4. No big movements or big follow throw. Shoot it like a close soft follow shot. You're just tapping the ball and rolling it forward into the OB. God help you if you need to crush it with force follow. It can be done but it's no fun.
If you're used to shooting with an open bridge almost all the time, you'll find this feels more natural I think.
Here is a tip given to me by Jimmy Reid about 18 years ago that I use to this day.
When your cueball is frozen to the rail you can line up and stroke over the top of the cueball until you feel comfortable then pull the tip back in front of the cueball and shoot.
It really works to keep your stroke straight on those shots.
When your cueball is frozen to the rail you can line up and stroke over the top of the cueball until you feel comfortable then pull the tip back in front of the cueball and shoot.
It really works to keep your stroke straight on those shots.
IMO, the key to mastering these shots is spending time on the practice table and finding the bridges that serve you best.
Not all rail shots are the same and you will need the right bridge for: froze to the rail shots; just off the rail shots; for follow, draw, stun shots; jacked up follow and draw; and all the shots a bit off the rail level. You need to experiment and find what works for you for all those shots, that are similar, but that require slightly different technique.
Lou Figueroa
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The only thing I think was missed was pocketing the shot. On most all shots the last thing you look at is the OB as you stroke. On rail shots after I have my aim line the last thing I focus on is the CB. Lest chance of miscue and better chance of making the shot.