CTE Aiming Systems - Fact or Fiction?
- Thread starter Redneck Jim
- Start date
Used CTE today, it is working well. The more I practice it the better it gets!
Good for you Coco! :thumbup:
Starting to get the feel for Banking with CTE!!!! Thanks to a forum member who spent some time on the phone with me!:thumbup::thumbup:
Spidey has a video on CTE banking. I don't remember where I saw it or I'd post a link for you.
I believe it was on Youtube.
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Well there is only one person I will show one on one what little I know about CTE, as I just as soon keep most of what I have found from work to myself! Plus I am still in the learning by practice mode!
If someone wants to learn about CTE Google it, and there is a bunch of good information there for you to learn from if you are willing invest the time!
IMHO CTE is the real deal, but like any tool you must work with it to learn how to use it.
If someone wants to learn about CTE Google it, and there is a bunch of good information there for you to learn from if you are willing invest the time!
IMHO CTE is the real deal, but like any tool you must work with it to learn how to use it.
Wanna try my magic bells, mate?
Will result in a half-ball what? Obviously the ball overlap CANNOT be the same for all shots. And the resulting collision when using CTE is NOT the same for all shots.
Again, the POINT is that a simple description of what I am doing when I implement CTE is incredibly difficult for you and most people to process.
However if I had you on the table, as many people have found out when visiting with Hal or Dave and Stan among others, then it's highly likely that you would get it in a few minutes.
To me THIS is the whole debate.
The people who have not experienced this on a table with the benefit of someone who knows to help them have a very hard time translating written instructions into action because they have the ghost/ball-contact point frame paradigm that they are filtering the instructions through.
When I first met Hal, and he sought me out - I didn't go to him, I spent the first thirty minutes thinking what is this bullshit? I was only half listening and was convinced that the nonsense he was spewing about "stick aiming" and Earl Strickland uses this and the Filipinos use that and you can hit the ball this way for all shots etc.... was nonsense.
THEN I settled down and started listening and really trying to SIGHT the shot as he was telling me to - and I started making balls from everywhere. Hal sits there like the Chesire Cat with a big smile.
I gave up what I THOUGHT I knew about aiming that day and learned that there is a whole world of ways to aim OUTSIDE of Ghost Ball Diagramming.
So you can think that SIGHTING the CTE Line results in a half ball hit and stop there or you can dig deeper into what Dave Segal and others (not me) have written and find out exactly what to do using CTE and you will see that when you finally bring your cue down to address the ball you will have the EXACT ball overlap that you need to make the shot.
Being open minded and curious is a lot different than being skeptical and insulting. You have been a jerk about this the whole time.
It just chafes your ass that someone you consider to be your intellectual inferior, Bruce (cocobolo cowboy) might just get it where you don't doesn't it. Well go find yourself a beehive because he gets it.
By the way Bruce has done more to promote the game already than you will in a hundred lifetimes.
As for Bert Kinister, great for Bert. I am not in the business of trying to SELL any kind of instruction using video so I have nothing to say about the quality of product Bert puts out nor what equipment he has. I am pretty sure you have zero clue what he has or what I have.
I find that it's very difficult FOR ME to properly describe CTE on video RIGHT NOW. This is due to a few factors, one I am still MASTERING it so I don't feel very comfortable describing something that I am not yet 100% proficient in. Two I don't have time to spend figuring out the best way to present this information, and three I am not happy with my current equipment which I find cumbersome to work with. I apologize that I didn't come through with the FREE information to spoon feed you into learning CTE. Maybe you should ASK YOURSELF why other CTE people were willing to email and pm me in private with very helpful information and you have not received the same offers?
Not only do a plan to soak myself, I plan to immerse myself into figuring out WHY CTE works and as I said I am building a little video studio of sorts and when I do then I will make videos as well. When that happens, if you haven't learned CTE by that time then MAYBE you will get it when you see my presentation - but I think not because to me you are mired in passive-aggressive hyper-critical mode.
I think that you need to spend you time and money and energy absorbing the information in Dave Alciatore's EXCELLENT Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots series rather than chasing CTE.
Just leave it alone if you can't get it. Many otherwise highly intelligent people don't. No biggie, ghost ball works great, it's geometrically "perfect" you can doodle it all day.
Maybe if you are ever in Arizona Cocobolo Cowboy will give you a CTE lesson. Bring your beehive.
What is with...??? Bring your beehive.
Because he said he would F-**-K one if you can use CTE.
You see what the problem is? You want us to disprove CTE, then come up with your own personal version of CTE, and when I tell you why your version does not work, the excuse is as always "you don't understand".
It is difficult for me to describe this in english. Maybe a diagram would help ... tomorrow.
Can it be described as an algorithm? Like
cte(cb, ob)
step1;
step2;
magic;
return lineofaim;
If so, it shouldn't be difficult.
It is difficult for me to describe this in english. Maybe a diagram would help ... tomorrow.
Can it be described as an algorithm? Like
cte(cb, ob)
step1;
step2;
magic;
return lineofaim;
If so, it shouldn't be difficult.
Well I can find him a Arizona WILD Bee Hive to play with, after I show him how CTE works!.
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I fully understand the problem. If I try to describe Ghost Ball to my wife in words she looks at me with a blank stare. If I try to describe it to my wife using the written word she reads it and her eyes glaze over.
If I take her to the table and show it to her then she gets it immediately.
I just saw this great talk on Patient Problem Solving - you should watch it to understand the difference between wanting to be spoon fed the answer as opposed to discovering it. Here you go, it's by Dan Meyer http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_meyer_math_curriculum_makeover.html
I am not going to spoon feed you the answer here for several reasons, one is that I can't right now. Two is that without knowing what your ability and cognizance is I have no idea how you will interpret that information.
As evidenced by your questions here, you asked the wrong ones. With what I gave you coupled with what else is out there about CTE you should be able to get it. However I very much doubt that you compiled that information and took it to the table. Because if you had then I have no doubt you would have asked the right questions.
As for your sarcastic jibe with my steps I suppose that it's a good time to remind you of this appropriate quote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
In other words it's what you don't know that seems like magic. When you know how it works then it's clear as day.
I get a lot of compliments on my banking. Whenever I play I am always getting the tap tap taps and the snaps for making nice bank shots - especially on the last few balls when it's critical. What my opponents and the onlookers don't now is that I have a system for banking. It works great and my banking percentages are higher than average because of it. The reason that the onlookers and my opponents are clapping is because they know that their own ability to bank consistently is much lower and so to them it's amazing to see a guy step up to the table and whack banks shots in like they are hangers. They can't tell I am using a system, it happens so fast that it looks completely natural.
I also get compliments on my kick shots. I use the double the distance method to figure them. It's obvious to everyone that I am measuring them when I kick. Once in a while someone will ask me what I am doing and I will show them. They thank me for it afterward.
So think about Arthur Clarke's words and consider that there is a piece of the puzzle that you don't know rather than trying to invalidate the system based on the parts that you do know (or think you know).
Coco: That comment wasn't personal. I know you're everyone's favorite pinata on these forums but I have nothing against you. I guess I was just looking for an excuse to use that beehive line. But seriously, I have trouble believing ANYone gets CTE based on the garbage and misinformation I've found on the forums and via google. Anyway, I apologize.
JB:
I haven't been a jerk about this the whole time. Possibly I evolved into one out of frustration. I apologize for anything I've said that was out of line.
I have tried repeatedly to make the distinction between criticising CTE and criticising the people promoting it. But clearly there's just no way to separate the two. If I say CTE works because someone is subconsciously making it work, it implies they've been duped or and that's always gonna come across as insulting. There is no tactful way to make that point without offending you and others so I've given up trying. Even Dr. Dave, as careful and diplomatic as he's been, gets no credit with you when it comes to CTE. If HE can't avoid offending you, I sure as shìt have no chance.
If I start throwing in personal attacks and swear words it's because this whole thing has been a giant goatf#ck. CTE is dangled in front of people in forum posts then whisked away [mustn't spoonfeed anyone or break hal's promise].
It's dangled again in the form of a promised video from dave and then whisked away [he can't make enough profit on the info he promised not to share, that hal gave away for free].
It's dangled again in the form of stan's video which is then whisked away.
[legal issues]
It's dangled again in the form of your own video but it doesn't pan out because
A. It involved no pivot and apparently had no center to edge alignment and
B. You didn't know real CTE when you made the video
And speaking of that, here's what bothers me -
You've been pushing CTE for weeks (has it been months? maybe years?) without knowing how to really do it. So when you weren't using "real" CTE before, what made you qualified to defend it? I mean, you expect detractors to understand it before they're qualified to attack it. So why should anyone respect anything you said about it before you learned TRUE cte? And when you talk about your CTE improvement, are you SURE you haven't been fooling yourself? Not in terms of improving, I can believe you really improved. But apparently that improvement happened with some fake homebrew version of CTE. So why are you so convinced that real CTE will do anything for you? JB CTE has been getting the job done, apparently.
-------
You're dangling a new possible video showing true CTE.
But already there are the excuses... the haters like Matt and Dave don't deserve it, they're jerks. I'm not getting paid for it and I have other priorities. I don't like my camera setup. I don't have it totally down pat yet. And so on. Will anyone be surprised if this one gets whisked away too?
It just amazes me people have been biting this particular hook for 15 years.
JB:
I haven't been a jerk about this the whole time. Possibly I evolved into one out of frustration. I apologize for anything I've said that was out of line.
I have tried repeatedly to make the distinction between criticising CTE and criticising the people promoting it. But clearly there's just no way to separate the two. If I say CTE works because someone is subconsciously making it work, it implies they've been duped or and that's always gonna come across as insulting. There is no tactful way to make that point without offending you and others so I've given up trying. Even Dr. Dave, as careful and diplomatic as he's been, gets no credit with you when it comes to CTE. If HE can't avoid offending you, I sure as shìt have no chance.
If I start throwing in personal attacks and swear words it's because this whole thing has been a giant goatf#ck. CTE is dangled in front of people in forum posts then whisked away [mustn't spoonfeed anyone or break hal's promise].
It's dangled again in the form of a promised video from dave and then whisked away [he can't make enough profit on the info he promised not to share, that hal gave away for free].
It's dangled again in the form of stan's video which is then whisked away.
[legal issues]
It's dangled again in the form of your own video but it doesn't pan out because
A. It involved no pivot and apparently had no center to edge alignment and
B. You didn't know real CTE when you made the video
And speaking of that, here's what bothers me -
You've been pushing CTE for weeks (has it been months? maybe years?) without knowing how to really do it. So when you weren't using "real" CTE before, what made you qualified to defend it? I mean, you expect detractors to understand it before they're qualified to attack it. So why should anyone respect anything you said about it before you learned TRUE cte? And when you talk about your CTE improvement, are you SURE you haven't been fooling yourself? Not in terms of improving, I can believe you really improved. But apparently that improvement happened with some fake homebrew version of CTE. So why are you so convinced that real CTE will do anything for you? JB CTE has been getting the job done, apparently.
-------
You're dangling a new possible video showing true CTE.
But already there are the excuses... the haters like Matt and Dave don't deserve it, they're jerks. I'm not getting paid for it and I have other priorities. I don't like my camera setup. I don't have it totally down pat yet. And so on. Will anyone be surprised if this one gets whisked away too?
It just amazes me people have been biting this particular hook for 15 years.
Hussa,
perhaps my english is a bit too low, to understand sometimes nuances in those threads and postings, where some ppl are gettin really aggressive against each other. But guys...why? it s all about OUR sport!
I really tried to find out why some guys are so upset-for sure i am personally disappointed, too- but just because i want to REALLY understand CTE or PRO-1 to test it and work it out properly.
And in my opinion JBCases has just overreacted a bit- i m sure he misunderstood the point (for example) Creedo was trying to take apart. I know for sure that Creedo really don t hate him, further he thinks that JB is a real serious guy. I just named these 2 guys, because i know one of them from talkin often per MSN, so i can imagine what a nice guy he is and the other guy usualy just writing here really serious and intelligent postings! So it s hard to understand for me that these 2 men are in a position where each of them is not able to write one word without getting the other side upset. You all here are old enough!
If someone taking his position and tells here that he s disappointed that he s not able to find a proper insctruction to work with it...i think nobody could be angry with him- that s a fact. The instructions which can be found here or online are about 4-5 sentences- and they are for sure incomplete. So i just gave it up to start trying this *system* out because without further proper informations it makes no sense for me.
And before *someone* now would start to offend me for some words...- i already emailed and pm ed some (for me experienced men, who re playing this system and also teaching it) men- and absolutley NOONE was able ( or did not want) to help me out. Two answers where similar in all responses: it s incomplete, would make no sense. Or the second version like: It can t be explained in words.
And i am very sure that for example Dr.Dave received the same answers a hundred times in the time he was trying to find out how this systems works(i mean workin 100%) -especially with his willing to know everything about this game (again...OUR game!) :grin: to share it with ALL OF US!
So for a person, who s really interested in things like that-and who really loves to give his knowledge further to other students...it s hard to understand, isn t it?
But i would never attack one of those guys just bc i haven t received what i expected! UNtil now in the CTE or Pro-1 discussions i just posted very few times. And after these discussions turned into personal wars....imo it is just sad. How it told....this is still OUR sport. And all here are for sure old enough. Don t know how it can be so difficult to be a bit more nicely and civilized.
Sorry if it has been to hard to read this posting caused by low english sometimes and hope it was been understandable for everyone.
peace :grin-square:
lg from overseas,
Ingo
perhaps my english is a bit too low, to understand sometimes nuances in those threads and postings, where some ppl are gettin really aggressive against each other. But guys...why? it s all about OUR sport!
I really tried to find out why some guys are so upset-for sure i am personally disappointed, too- but just because i want to REALLY understand CTE or PRO-1 to test it and work it out properly.
And in my opinion JBCases has just overreacted a bit- i m sure he misunderstood the point (for example) Creedo was trying to take apart. I know for sure that Creedo really don t hate him, further he thinks that JB is a real serious guy. I just named these 2 guys, because i know one of them from talkin often per MSN, so i can imagine what a nice guy he is and the other guy usualy just writing here really serious and intelligent postings! So it s hard to understand for me that these 2 men are in a position where each of them is not able to write one word without getting the other side upset. You all here are old enough!
If someone taking his position and tells here that he s disappointed that he s not able to find a proper insctruction to work with it...i think nobody could be angry with him- that s a fact. The instructions which can be found here or online are about 4-5 sentences- and they are for sure incomplete. So i just gave it up to start trying this *system* out because without further proper informations it makes no sense for me.
And before *someone* now would start to offend me for some words...- i already emailed and pm ed some (for me experienced men, who re playing this system and also teaching it) men- and absolutley NOONE was able ( or did not want) to help me out. Two answers where similar in all responses: it s incomplete, would make no sense. Or the second version like: It can t be explained in words.
And i am very sure that for example Dr.Dave received the same answers a hundred times in the time he was trying to find out how this systems works(i mean workin 100%) -especially with his willing to know everything about this game (again...OUR game!) :grin: to share it with ALL OF US!
So for a person, who s really interested in things like that-and who really loves to give his knowledge further to other students...it s hard to understand, isn t it?
But i would never attack one of those guys just bc i haven t received what i expected! UNtil now in the CTE or Pro-1 discussions i just posted very few times. And after these discussions turned into personal wars....imo it is just sad. How it told....this is still OUR sport. And all here are for sure old enough. Don t know how it can be so difficult to be a bit more nicely and civilized.
Sorry if it has been to hard to read this posting caused by low english sometimes and hope it was been understandable for everyone.
peace :grin-square:
lg from overseas,
Ingo
I don't know for sure how long ago Hal Houle first mentioned or taught CTE, but I don't think it was as long as 15 years. When Hal taught John Barton an aiming system 10 years ago, it was a fractional-ball aiming system, not CTE. The rec.sport.billiard forum had lots of discussion back then about the pros and cons of that system.
I do know that Hal claims to know several dozen aiming systems, and that he spent many years developing CTE. So it is possible that he had it as one of his systems many years ago but usually taught what John calls "quarters" instead.
Perhaps someone else will be able to more closely identify the year that CTE first found the light of day. So I'll ask you CTE users -- what year did you learn it?
Thanks. I hope you understand that the LONG private conversations we have had were my attempt to help as I could.
Well you can't make a statement about how CTE works without knowing the system. That would be like me criticizing the diamond system without knowing it. You have picked up on Dave's and Pat's theory that CTE works by way of subconscious adjustment but you know even less about CTE or any systems then they do. So as a seeker of knowledge it's my opinion that you should withhold your criticism until you are SURE that you know how to use CTE. Then if you want to give your opinion on it's limitations fine. I guarantee you that Dave Segal is MORE THAN WILLING to discuss CTE theory with anyone who takes the time to learn it.
Well if the CTE naysayers wouldn't immediately jump in with negativity then the people who do know it would be free to discuss it and move people towards learning it.
Inevitably however within the first ten posts or so of any CTE thread here comes a bunch of people claiming it doesn't work although none of them can describe the steps in the first place.
So the conversation then turns from instruction to one of defending the concept.
Well Dave was quite clear about what he would do with the money. Seriously it's not a lot to ask for ten people to put up $50 for a webinar. Especially with a hot topic like this. Unlike Hal Dave works. His time is worth something. And also as I said before it's a lot of work to come up with the proper presentation. Would be kind of stupid of Dave to do something like this half-assed wouldn't it?
Well yes and I am disappointed in that as well. But again it's not to spite you or defraud people as you suggested. Stan has a valid reason that he needs to work out.
No, I was very very very clear to you in PMs and on the video that I didn't know CTE as taught by Stan, Hal or Dave. I was more than clear stating it several times. I also stated that there IS a pivot but that I couldn't explain what it is or how to do it on command.
If you read my posts on the subject I defend the concept. The reason I can defend the concept is because I know that Hal Houle's other systems work. I know that Dave Segal and several other people whom a highly respect and even one particular asshole I can't stand, but who is a decent player, use CTE and have studied this for years. If they say CTE works and knowing it came from Hal then it works.
You don't have to. Again if you read my posts I encourage everyone to go out and try it for themselves. Go learn it. I never commented on how great CTE is before I actually learned it. I commented on how great Hal's aiming systems are in general because I use them and know them to be great. When I did learn CTE the RIGHT WAY - (thank you CTE angels, you know who you are), then I commented on how great it is.
Yeah, I have been fooling myself. The two or three times I have gone out to play since learning CTE the right way I have had better results and compliments from my opponents regarding the shots I am making. So I took the CTE sugar pill and suddenly got better and more consistent. I find it a bit strange that you can't consider the alternative which is that I took the time to learn this and had some qualified help and on top of that can cognitively recognize what I am doing.
I said I would do it when I am ready to. Is that so hard to get? I didn't say I would do it when YOU want it. I said that your attitude makes me not want to do it and that's true. People who are jerks about things don't usually motivate me to get things done for them.
I told you that the information and the people who CAN help you are here and available. Instead of complaining about videos that haven't been made why don't you focus on what's there? I didn't ASK Dave or anyone else to help me with CTE - they offered. Now why would they offer it to me and not to you?
And ask yourself the question of why? What do they know that you don't?
And actually you are not biting the hook - you are swimming around hungry and wondering if it's really food or not. The people who took Hal's bait and learned what he has to teach are better players for it. Those people are the ones who are happily using Hal's systems to be more consistent shot makers.
If their exuberance bubbles over from time to time then it's not any reason to insult them because they know something you don't and are happy about it.
Have you even picked up the phone and tried to call Hal Houle? His phone number is easy to find.
JB: we always come down to "I can't make an opinion on it until I have CTE down pat".
Well, sometimes we offer opinions without knowing for sure. Otherwise we'd all be agnostics and nobody would talk about the economy or even the weather.
I have to ask fair [yes, even skeptical] questions about CTE in the course of trying to learn it... Like when I asked dave how he can possibly claim a system works without knowing where the pocket is. I don't need to know CTE inside and out to know that's wrong. I also don't need to know it to know hal was wrong to state all top pros use it.
When I come up against things that come across as completely ridiculous, I don't hold back when saying so.
That may seem insulting and rude, but it insults ME that anyone would try to sneak claims like that by intelligent human beings. You may feel this is an overreaction, but some of this stuff literally insults my intelligence, so that's why I choose to call it out in ways that must seem harsh to you.
I will resist the urge to post about CTE - not because you've sold me on the idea that I'm not qualified to talk about it, but because it's just tiring butting heads over the subject. The last time I got into lots of back-and-forth arguing like this, I dropped off the AZB radar for half a year or more.
If you make a video, I'd be glad to see it. Obviously it's your life, your timeframe, and you can make it how you want. The point you made about all the time I waste arguing on the internet, when I could have just learned it by now? It applies to you too. Maybe to dave, I've seen him post videos on youtube. Either of you could have already made a pretty comprehensive video without spending a dime, using existing equipment and the internet, and only investing the time you've spent debating it.
Ok, time to cold turkey the CTE threads and watch efren kick roberto's ass.
Well, sometimes we offer opinions without knowing for sure. Otherwise we'd all be agnostics and nobody would talk about the economy or even the weather.
I have to ask fair [yes, even skeptical] questions about CTE in the course of trying to learn it... Like when I asked dave how he can possibly claim a system works without knowing where the pocket is. I don't need to know CTE inside and out to know that's wrong. I also don't need to know it to know hal was wrong to state all top pros use it.
When I come up against things that come across as completely ridiculous, I don't hold back when saying so.
That may seem insulting and rude, but it insults ME that anyone would try to sneak claims like that by intelligent human beings. You may feel this is an overreaction, but some of this stuff literally insults my intelligence, so that's why I choose to call it out in ways that must seem harsh to you.
I will resist the urge to post about CTE - not because you've sold me on the idea that I'm not qualified to talk about it, but because it's just tiring butting heads over the subject. The last time I got into lots of back-and-forth arguing like this, I dropped off the AZB radar for half a year or more.
If you make a video, I'd be glad to see it. Obviously it's your life, your timeframe, and you can make it how you want. The point you made about all the time I waste arguing on the internet, when I could have just learned it by now? It applies to you too. Maybe to dave, I've seen him post videos on youtube. Either of you could have already made a pretty comprehensive video without spending a dime, using existing equipment and the internet, and only investing the time you've spent debating it.
Ok, time to cold turkey the CTE threads and watch efren kick roberto's ass.