Predator 314-2 Shaft Taper

rhyno

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If i decided to lengthen the taper on my 314-2 shaft to approx 20 inches and maybe turn down the shaft to 12.5mm would it's low deflection characteristics stay pretty similar?
I prefer a longer taper than standard and have used long tapers on all my shafts previously....just never on a low deflection shaft.
I know the shaft would be more wippy cause of the extra flex but i'm down on the other technical aspects......i just know what i prefer:)
thanks in advance..............:thumbup2:
 
*I had originally composed this post at 9am this morning but because of AZ's servers burping, belching and otherwise being unresponsive, I wasn't able to post until now.*


When Predator's engineers designed this shaft, they incorporated a taper that would contribute to (and complement) the L/D characteristics they were seeking. I'm pretty sure they didn't just guess at it or pick one at random. They found and settled on, the taper that works best for this shaft.

No one can argue with what you prefer. You want what you want. However, be mindful that any alteration of this shaft will NOT be a move towards improving it's L/D characteristics. It was designed correctly just as it is.
If you can understand and accept this then you are free to do whatever you want with the shaft. A T/D to 12.5mm won't void your warranty but going below 12.25mm will. It's up to you how much value you place on your warranty.

OK, so now let's look at 'lengthening' the stroke-zone (taper).
Once the tip is down to 12.5mm, at some point along that shaft's length you're going to have to get to 21.3mm, the avg. joint diameter. You can keep moving that back towards the jnt. but the transition angle gets steeper as you do. I've heard it referred to as a 'speed-bump'.
The key to any good taper is to allow the increase in the shaft's dia. from tip to joint without being noticeable or restrictive. Predator shafts do this quite nicely as do SouthWest and a few others.

Another result of lengthening the taper will be the altering of the flex-point. This is where you will notice the greatest reduction in the L/D characteristics. As the flex-point is moved further back towards the joint, this now leaves more of the shaft in front of the flex-point. This in essence, is the equivalent of greater front-end mass. The greater amount of shaft wood that has to move for the tip to get off the ball, the slower it will do it. This is where the L/D characteristics start going out the window. Just doing a minor/moderate T/D can have beneficial results by removing front-end mass but if in the process, the flex-point is moved rearward, any performance gains are nullified.
Consider the 'Z' shaft. It has a more conical taper than the 314. The 'Z' shaft has lower L/D characteristics because it's flex-point is nearer the tip thereby allowing the tip to get off the ball quicker. However, not everyone prefers this taper. The 314 has a more comfortable taper, for most, but doesn't get off the ball as quick as the Z because of the altered flex-point. You can 'toy' with the physics but there will always be a trade-off.

I've heard many people complain about the cost of Predator shafts. What I think that they fail to realize is that the cost of this shaft is not based on the cost of the mtrls that are used to manufacture this shaft but the engineering that went into designing this shaft. At the end of the day, it's a fair price to pay for having the best L/D shaft in the world. But I digress.

You're certainly welcome to do whatever you like with your shaft, it's yours to do with as you please. But since you've asked the question, I thought I'd point out what you might expect as a result.
 
*I had originally composed this post at 9am this morning but because of AZ's servers burping, belching and otherwise being unresponsive, I wasn't able to post until now.*


When Predator's engineers designed this shaft, they incorporated a taper that would contribute to (and complement) the L/D characteristics they were seeking. I'm pretty sure they didn't just guess at it or pick one at random. They found and settled on, the taper that works best for this shaft.

No one can argue with what you prefer. You want what you want. However, be mindful that any alteration of this shaft will NOT be a move towards improving it's L/D characteristics. It was designed correctly just as it is.
If you can understand and accept this then you are free to do whatever you want with the shaft. A T/D to 12.5mm won't void your warranty but going below 12.25mm will. It's up to you how much value you place on your warranty.

OK, so now let's look at 'lengthening' the stroke-zone (taper).
Once the tip is down to 12.5mm, at some point along that shaft's length you're going to have to get to 21.3mm, the avg. joint diameter. You can keep moving that back towards the jnt. but the transition angle gets steeper as you do. I've heard it referred to as a 'speed-bump'.
The key to any good taper is to allow the increase in the shaft's dia. from tip to joint without being noticeable or restrictive. Predator shafts do this quite nicely as do SouthWest and a few others.

Another result of lengthening the taper will be the altering of the flex-point. This is where you will notice the greatest reduction in the L/D characteristics. As the flex-point is moved further back towards the joint, this now leaves more of the shaft in front of the flex-point. This in essence, is the equivalent of greater front-end mass. The greater amount of shaft wood that has to move for the tip to get off the ball, the slower it will do it. This is where the L/D characteristics start going out the window. Just doing a minor/moderate T/D can have beneficial results by removing front-end mass but if in the process, the flex-point is moved rearward, any performance gains are nullified.
Consider the 'Z' shaft. It has a more conical taper than the 314. The 'Z' shaft has lower L/D characteristics because it's flex-point is nearer the tip thereby allowing the tip to get off the ball quicker. However, not everyone prefers this taper. The 314 has a more comfortable taper, for most, but doesn't get off the ball as quick as the Z because of the altered flex-point. You can 'toy' with the physics but there will always be a trade-off.

I've heard many people complain about the cost of Predator shafts. What I think that they fail to realize is that the cost of this shaft is not based on the cost of the mtrls that are used to manufacture this shaft but the engineering that went into designing this shaft. At the end of the day, it's a fair price to pay for having the best L/D shaft in the world. But I digress.

You're certainly welcome to do whatever you like with your shaft, it's yours to do with as you please. But since you've asked the question, I thought I'd point out what you might expect as a result.

Interesting! I've never before seen reference to a "flex point" along a predator shaft. Where is the "flex point" on a Z-2 shaft? A 314-2 shaft? Thanks
 
The deflection will stay the same, or very very close to the same.
The only way you will significantly change the deflection is to change the end mass of the shaft.
People have come up with all kinds of theories on what makes causes and affects deflection, some of them valid, and most of them pure speculation, some of them pure hype.
Check this out for some really good info... http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=200711
 
Interesting! I've never before seen reference to a "flex point" along a predator shaft. Where is the "flex point" on a Z-2 shaft? A 314-2 shaft? Thanks

Precise flex-point will be different for each shaft due to the inconsistent nature of wood as well as a few other variables such as shaft diameter (including degree of taper), speed of stroke and force of impact. But my sense tells me that it will be within the first 5" of length from the tip as that is the depth of the Predator shaft's hollow. A tube will flex easier than a rod of the same mtrl. and the same diameter.

The Z shaft will have a quicker response than the 314 due to the smaller diameter of the front-end of the shaft and the reduced mass. As a result, it's 'flex-point' will be moved forward.

I've heard of the use of the term 'flex-point' when describing other aspects of a shaft but my use of the term is being used to describe what happens once the tip contacts the QB.
'Flex-point' may not be the best term to describe this phenomena but I chose it because it gave me the best mental image.


Thank you Sheldon for the link to Joey's link to the Jacksonville data. I still have the 'Billiards Digest' in which the data was first presented.
 
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thanks for the in depth replies, i think i'm going to go back to my old cue.
i'm not sure the predators for me:rolleyes:
 
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