APA rules question

A

Andrew Henson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok this happened tonight. My opponent had ball in hand. His coach calls a time out. My opponent is holding the cueball. The coach bumps into the 8 and my ball while looking at them. I turn around and see the coach moving them back.
Now if the player does this with ball in hand it is a cue ball foul. They ruled it not a foul because the player was holding the cueball and not the coach. I know this is open to interpretation, but if you have the cue in hand and knock chalk into a ball it is a foul.
To me a player and coach are one and the same.
Opinions?
He played a lock up safe, then snapped the eight so I was done. First night of leauge in a new town so I tried to be civil.
 
the rule is..

The rules state that you are to down 2 bears and head butt the guy!

Just kidding.

I would think that it would be the same as if the player had moved the balls.IDK if you could have still replaced the balls yourself but that seams fair.
 
My understanding of the ball-in-hand rule is that if you are holding the cue ball and touch another ball your body/clothing is essentially an extension of the cue ball. If the coach wasn't holding the ball, I can't see that there was a foul.
 
Ya I had the option to reposition the balls. I think it should have been a foul and I should have had ball in hand. my opponent agreed but not his coach, they all offered beers and apologies, I wanted the w GRRRRR
 
My understanding of the ball-in-hand rule is that if you are holding the cue ball and touch another ball your body/clothing is essentially an extension of the cue ball. If the coach wasn't holding the ball, I can't see that there was a foul.

Although technically, it should be the sitting player that returns the balls to the original position.
 
You lost fair and square. If a player bumps an object ball with the hand that is holding the cue ball, then it is a foul, as if he/she bumped the ball with the cue ball. The coach was not holding the cue ball, so it is not a foul.

Now, here's the part a LOT of players/teams get wrong. When a ball is accidentally moved, the opponent does not have the option to replace it. The opponent MUST replace it. It's ok to collaborate on the replacement to get the ball back where it originally was, but you do not have the option to leave it where it is.
 
I don't believe the statement below is true. If you drop chalk on the cue ball it's a foul but during a ball in hand situation, the cue ball or the hand holding the cue ball must touch an object ball for it to be a foul. The chalk is not an extension of your hand.

These fouls are outlined on pgs 7-8 of the Game Rule Book.


but if you have the cue in hand and knock chalk into a ball it is a foul.
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APA Operator said:
You lost fair and square. If a player bumps an object ball with the hand that is holding the cue ball, then it is a foul, as if he/she bumped the ball with the cue ball. The coach was not holding the cue ball, so it is not a foul.

Now, here's the part a LOT of players/teams get wrong. When a ball is accidentally moved, the opponent does not have the option to replace it. The opponent MUST replace it. It's ok to collaborate on the replacement to get the ball back where it originally was, but you do not have the option to leave it where it is.
Click to expand...

A lot of players get this wrong because it is a recent rule change. In the old rules the opponent had the choice to either leave them or reposition them to where they though they were.
 
APA Operator said:
When a ball is accidentally moved, the opponent does not have the option to replace it. The opponent MUST replace it.
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I'm not trying to turn this into a league bashing thread (it's ineviteble anyway)...

But what's the difference who moves the balls back to thier original positions ?
As long as the sitting player agrees that the balls are where they were, or as close to thier original postions, what does it matter if the shooter or the sitter puts the balls back ?

I have a back injury. It doesn't affect my playing so much as it does getting up/sitting down when it's my inning. For me (and maybe a few others), it's easier if the shooter puts the balls back. If the shooter moves the balls back where I believe they were, who cares who put them there ?

Again, it's just a question...
 
magnetardo said:
A lot of players get this wrong because it is a recent rule change. In the old rules the opponent had the choice to either leave them or reposition them to where they though they were.
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how you define recent. I have a team manual published in 1994, and it says on page 65, "Any balls moved accidentally during a shot will be replaced by the opponent after the shot is over and all balls have stopped rolling. If it occurs before the shot, it will be replaced before the shot is taken."

I also have a manual published in 1996, and in that one the word "will" is replaced with the word "must" (page 49). I do not have a version of the manual where the opponent is given a choice.

So if by "old rules" you mean more than 16 years ago, you could be correct.
 
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Lance Link said:
I'm not trying to turn this into a league bashing thread (it's ineviteble anyway)...

But what's the difference who moves the balls back to thier original positions ?
As long as the sitting player agrees that the balls are where they were, or as close to thier original postions, what does it matter if the shooter or the sitter puts the balls back ?

I have a back injury. It doesn't affect my playing so much as it does getting up/sitting down when it's my inning. For me (and maybe a few others), it's easier if the shooter puts the balls back. If the shooter moves the balls back where I believe they were, who cares who put them there ?

Again, it's just a question...
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What's important is that the balls are replaced to the sitting player's satisfaction, with everyone making an honest effort to get them back where they were. It doesn't really matter who physically does the moving, the rule is worded that way to protect the sitting player from an unscrupulous shooter who moves balls accidentally on purpose.
 
This is kinda interesting. I'm betting most of the people in our division don't realize the "must" part of it. I think everyone has pretty much gone by the "up to the opponent as to whether to move them back or leave them where they are" method.

I'm gonna ask around a little, for amusements sake. (Once I get my own copy of the rule book so I can have it ready to show them :p The captain of our team was supposed to bring the new manual for me to have on hand, but forgot it last week. I shall have to remind him!) I expect to have a lot of fun messing with people about this.
 
i just started apa and some of the rules are just crazy to me i was used to bca which is more like playrs in pool rooms play when they play 8 ball esp....but i will play on, due to my team being so well rounded, and me wanting a trip to Vegas lol
 
i have a question too and didnt want to start a whole thread, if the op doesnt mind :)

if a guy is shooting and sends the cb into a pocket, and he then grabs the cb out of the pocket and places it say (unconciously) along the rail, or wherever.... and then the incoming shooter, who may have not been watching the table or he was distracted by something.... shoots from where the cb lies.... what would happen... i mean what would happen if this happened in the US open without a ref? im starting to think a good rule would be only incoming player can grab the cb, not that this is a huge problem we have or anything.
 
Another reason why it is important to pay attention to your game!

If you didn't see the scratch, and shot it from that position, it's your fault. While the right thing would be for your opponent to tell you it's BIA, they are not obligated to do so.

You have an obligation to pay attention to your match.

Steve
 
enzo said:
i have a question too and didnt want to start a whole thread, if the op doesnt mind :)

if a guy is shooting and sends the cb into a pocket, and he then grabs the cb out of the pocket and places it say (unconciously) along the rail, or wherever.... and then the incoming shooter, who may have not been watching the table or he was distracted by something.... shoots from where the cb lies.... what would happen... i mean what would happen if this happened in the US open without a ref? im starting to think a good rule would be only incoming player can grab the cb, not that this is a huge problem we have or anything.
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I bellieve that is the rule for BCA tournaments.IDK about the APA.
 
I always tell my opponent when it is ball in hand whether they saw the foul or not. It's just good sportsmanship. I mean this is APA amateur pool league not some serious tournament. It's all in fun. If I notice I even tell my opponent if he is about to shoot the wrong set of balls. Nobody wants to win a game that way. The only thing I don't tell my opponent is to mark his pocket on the 8-Ball. That I think they should know better.
 
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