aiming systems r like a weight loss plan

I am old school but still am open minded enough to live and let live. If someone finds CTE helpful to their game, go for it. I don't want to hear that they never miss another ball as we all know that's bs. I am certain that the great players of the game from Mosconi, Lassiter, forward to Reyes, and other current champions never heard of CTE while they were developing their game and could not care less about it today. A beginner might improve quicker with CTE over ghost ball but that's simply speculation.
 
sr 9ball said:
Agreed. Practice makes perfect. But all these DVDs and lessons will accelerate your learning curve. U will eliminate a lot of trial and error. But it all comes down to table time.
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I know this is picky BUT
Perfect Practice makes perfect.
Bad practice habits are counter productive to your game....randyg
 
I hear members talk about how many books and dvds they have purchased and wonder if they have ever taken a lesson from a good instructor. I agree with RandyG that it's the quality of the practice that's important and lessons can benefit a player of any skill level.
 
Just a couple comments. I'm not going to get into it with anyone who has time to quote and address every quote they read. The placebo effect is a fact. We all know someone who has gotten a new cue (and their old cue was fine), who suddenly played a little better. We call it Newcueitis. Because they are excited about their new cue (or new whatever), they have more confidence AND want to spend more time at the tables. Confidence + more time than usual at tables = a slight elevation in level of play.
I'm not sure how cte works but I am 100% certain that time with an instructor will beat it to death. If cte is truly an aid to get you lined up to the shot -every time, instruction will do the same thing. An instructor will also help you fix any flaws in your movement that takes your hand/eye/cue out of that line. I'm sure cte has value for those who are unable to meet with an instructor for one reason or another. But one must agree no book or video will ever compare to the real knowledge infusion one gets from live instruction.
 
Luvthegame said:
I am old school but still am open minded enough to live and let live. If someone finds CTE helpful to their game, go for it. I don't want to hear that they never miss another ball as we all know that's bs. I am certain that the great players of the game from Mosconi, Lassiter, forward to Reyes, and other current champions never heard of CTE while they were developing their game and could not care less about it today. A beginner might improve quicker with CTE over ghost ball but that's simply speculation.
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This might make me sound stupid, But I have never heard of CTE till I read this thread and looked it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SEJz7PujM

I've played the game for 13 years, I could not imagine lining up and shooting shots like that.

Looks like a lot of focus on preparing for the shot. Is it the same focus on getting the white where it needs to be?
 
Cue Alchemist said:
This might make me sound stupid, But I have never heard of CTE till I read this thread and looked it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SEJz7PujM

I've played the game for 13 years, I could not imagine lining up and shooting shots like that.

Looks like a lot of focus on preparing for the shot. Is it the same focus on getting the white where it needs to be?
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Don't feel bad! I have played pool for over 40 years and had never heard of CTE before joining this forum. And kind of like diet books, I hope to be seeing less of it. If I had a technique or method that raised my game a ball or two, I wouldn't part with it. Of course, unless there was money involved.
 
JolietJames said:
Just a couple comments. I'm not going to get into it with anyone who has time to quote and address every quote they read. The placebo effect is a fact. We all know someone who has gotten a new cue (and their old cue was fine), who suddenly played a little better. We call it Newcueitis. Because they are excited about their new cue (or new whatever), they have more confidence AND want to spend more time at the tables. Confidence + more time than usual at tables = a slight elevation in level of play.
I'm not sure how cte works but I am 100% certain that time with an instructor will beat it to death. If cte is truly an aid to get you lined up to the shot -every time, instruction will do the same thing. An instructor will also help you fix any flaws in your movement that takes your hand/eye/cue out of that line. I'm sure cte has value for those who are unable to meet with an instructor for one reason or another. But one must agree no book or video will ever compare to the real knowledge infusion one gets from live instruction.
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That's not the placebo effect. What you are describing is a myth.

For something to be accurately described as the placebo effect then it has to be measured in a controlled environment.

We all know that some people say that they play better with a new cue but if you are honest then you will also agree that you know people who say that they do not play with better with a new cue. We all know people who get a new cue and struggle with it and end up selling it fairly quickly.

I certainly do not agree that no book or video can compare to live instruction. Are you truly going to say that instruction from Joe Blow C-player (who is a BCA Certified instructor) is better than watching a video by a world champion?

I think that instructors and instructional materials compliment each other. Some are great and some are not.

But as far as that goes, what do you think about the fact that there are many prominent instructors now teaching these aiming systems?

I think it validates the aiming systems. I think that if the aiming systems were all bunk then no instructor would waste their time learning them much less teaching them.
 
Luvthegame said:
Don't feel bad! I have played pool for over 40 years and had never heard of CTE before joining this forum. And kind of like diet books, I hope to be seeing less of it. If I had a technique or method that raised my game a ball or two, I wouldn't part with it. Of course, unless there was money involved.
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I also never heard of it before joining these online forums. So what?

I have been making leather pool cue cases for 20 years and still I learn new things from other leather workers that I never heard of before through my interactions with them on the leather worker's forums.

Keeping things secret about how to play the game isn't what forums are about. On here we share what we know, argue about it's merit and generally dissect everything.

Not the best place to be if people talking about the secrets of pool upset you.

Chris Bartrum got upset at Joe Tucker for putting out a book on how to read racks. Welcome to the information age where the iggies are getting smarter.
 
Cue Alchemist said:
This might make me sound stupid, But I have never heard of CTE till I read this thread and looked it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SEJz7PujM

I've played the game for 13 years, I could not imagine lining up and shooting shots like that.

Looks like a lot of focus on preparing for the shot. Is it the same focus on getting the white where it needs to be?
Click to expand...

When you get used to CTE then the set up on the shot is instant. As you go to the table you see it all in one motion. The best part is that you then can truly focus on your cueball and where it needs to go.

Learning CTE has the added benefit that position play improves tremendously.
 
Luvthegame said:
I am old school but still am open minded enough to live and let live. If someone finds CTE helpful to their game, go for it. I don't want to hear that they never miss another ball as we all know that's bs. I am certain that the great players of the game from Mosconi, Lassiter, forward to Reyes, and other current champions never heard of CTE while they were developing their game and could not care less about it today. A beginner might improve quicker with CTE over ghost ball but that's simply speculation.
Click to expand...

A beginner will NOT improve quicker with CTE. No way. It's too complicated for a beginner to grasp.

Ghost Ball is the easiest concept to teach a beginner for aiming.

For an intermediate player CTE is way way stronger as a way to aim.

Are you sure that the champions of yesteryear didn't have other aiming methods that they "heard of"?

I suggest that maybe Google Books might be of use to you if you care to look up what authors were writing on aiming 100 years ago.
 
randyg said:
I know this is picky BUT
Perfect Practice makes perfect.
Bad practice habits are counter productive to your game....randyg
Click to expand...

I respect your insight as an instructor RandyG, but I DISAGREE with this!

I might be the only person on AZ that disagrees with this but I said it. This seems to keep coming up in different threads - that is, the idea that you shouldn't play unless you are perfectly focused.

I think it really depends on where your game is at. When you are just starting out I think even banging balls around can be productive. Even the champions started out somewhere and most of them will tell you that they were playing 5-10 hours a day. Now there is no way in the world all of this practice was perfect, but somehow they still found a way to improve in the midst of this sloppy play. I think one can improve portions of their game without thinking they have to be 100% focused on the task at hand at all times. Heck, sometimes just banging the balls around for hours on end can awaken a sleeping giant. Of course, you may develop some bad habits along the way and you should try to avoid this but I say even if you can give it 80% you're better off playing than reading about it.

Wow, sorry to take this way off subject but I have had this on my mind for awhile.
 
OK there is NO WAY JB is a casual observer who spends hours each day defending and promoting cte. A happy customer does not dedicate his/her life to touting the product without compensation. If you were out there pounding on people with this unbeatable aiming system instead of promoting cte you would be a millionaire. I think you should get out of this thread so non biased people can talk about it. I don't know if it's good or bad but I know I would remember seeing a pro aiming like a blind man if he was using it during a match I have watched. I've never seen anyone do that on tv or a recorded match -ever. I'm not saying it doesn't work. It may work great but the pros don't need it because they get in line just fine without it. I'm standing by my claim that live instruction is better than a dvd. You can't argue that. The live instrucion could be teaching a student cte, too. I'm saying the guy standing there watching you can see what you are doing right and wrong and help you more than you can help yourself -even with cte.
BTW I'm not above buying the dvd. I'm curious about it too and that is why I'm reading these threads. I don't know enough about it to form an opinion yet but it just seems suspicious when one person swarms every thread about cte constantly stating how well it works and defending it to the death. I'm happy it worked for you JB and thank you for your opinions. Now let's hear from others who have used it and their experience with it.
-No disresrect here I really am curious about the system!
 
BasementDweller said:
I respect your insight as an instructor RandyG, but I DISAGREE with this!

I might be the only person on AZ that disagrees with this but I said it. This seems to keep coming up in different threads - that is, the idea that you shouldn't play unless you are perfectly focused.

I think it really depends on where your game is at. When you are just starting out I think even banging balls around can be productive. Even the champions started out somewhere and most of them will tell you that they were playing 5-10 hours a day. Now there is no way in the world all of this practice was perfect, but somehow they still found a way to improve in the midst of this sloppy play. I think one can improve portions of their game without thinking they have to be 100% focused on the task at hand at all times. Heck, sometimes just banging the balls around for hours on end can awaken a sleeping giant. Of course, you may develop some bad habits along the way and you should try to avoid this but I say even if you can give it 80% you're better off playing than reading about it.

Wow, sorry to take this way off subject but I have had this on my mind for awhile.
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Efren says that focus is the number one piece of advice he can give to amateurs.

The "perfect practice" concept is one that all coaches everywhere agree on.

I will give you an analogy from diving. I was a springboard diver. Before I joined my high school team I did it for fun. I never learned one single thing about diving from anyone before joining the team. In fact I didn't even KNOW that our school had a diving team. When I go there I could do one an a halfs and double flips and some sort of swan dive.

I spent A LOT of time at the local pool in the summer diving for years prior to joining the team. When I went to the pool I headed straight for the board and spent hours there and only there, it was all I wanted to do.

So when I joined the diving team I figured I had an advantage. WRONG.

I had learned so many bad habits that the coach only let me stay on the team and practice with the team IF I put in extra time learning the proper way to dive. It was worse for me than if I had come on the team with zero experience on the board. And in the end while I eventually became a good diver I was never truly good enough to be a threat to the divers who were properly trained from the beginning.

Studies all over the world in all sorts of sports back up the concept that focused and proper structured practice improves skill levels faster than random activity in the sport.

That said practice alone won't make you good. You need to put your skills to the test in battle and learn to handle situations that come up randomly. You need to learn from your opponents so that you can absorb their strengths and exploit their weaknesses.
 
JolietJames said:
OK there is NO WAY JB is a casual observer who spends hours each day defending and promoting cte. A happy customer does not dedicate his/her life to touting the product without compensation. If you were out there pounding on people with this unbeatable aiming system instead of promoting cte you would be a millionaire. I think you should get out of this thread so non biased people can talk about it. I don't know if it's good or bad but I know I would remember seeing a pro aiming like a blind man if he was using it during a match I have watched. I've never seen anyone do that on tv or a recorded match -ever. I'm not saying it doesn't work. It may work great but the pros don't need it because they get in line just fine without it. I'm standing by my claim that live instruction is better than a dvd. You can't argue that. The live instrucion could be teaching a student cte, too. I'm saying the guy standing there watching you can see what you are doing right and wrong and help you more than you can help yourself -even with cte.
BTW I'm not above buying the dvd. I'm curious about it too and that is why I'm reading these threads. I don't know enough about it to form an opinion yet but it just seems suspicious when one person swarms every thread about cte constantly stating how well it works and defending it to the death. I'm happy it worked for you JB and thank you for your opinions. Now let's hear from others who have used it and their experience with it.
-No disresrect here I really am curious about the system!
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This thread is not about CTE. The reason I talk about the benefits is because they are real and I can't stomach seeing people who won't even try it knocking it. I can understand not wanting to try it. That's cool. I did not want to try Hal Houle's kooky sounding systems either from the one time I peeked into an aiming system thread back in 98 or so.

In fact if Hal had not sought me out and asked to see me when he came through Denver then it's a really good bet that I STILL would not have tried his systems.

This thread is about someone AGAIN trying to KNOCK the concept and by doing so trying to prevent people from trying to learn new ways to aim.

I feel compelled to be the defending voice when that happens. So here I am like it or not. And I don't make a dime for doing it. On the contrary I usually lose money by neglecting my business and at least one person pipes up and swears that they will never buy a case from me.

If you're interested then go get it. I just received my ProOne video a few hours ago and have watched it one and a half times. My thoughts on it will go up after I get a chance to take the information to the table.

What makes me sick is the constant knock. So now the DVD is out and people can't knock the fact that no instructions are available for CTE so they now have to knock the whole concept of aiming systems, even though Ghost Ball is technically an aiming system.

I have come to the conclusion that a human being's first instinct is to knock things when it's not right in front of them.

If SVB were holding court at DCC explaining CTE and EVERY SINGLE of the knockers on AZ were standing around the table not one of them would dare pipe up like they do here. I am convinced of that.

But anyway, you're right as well. I should step back and let other people do their thing.
 
JB Cases said:
Efren says that focus is the number one piece of advice he can give to amateurs.

The "perfect practice" concept is one that all coaches everywhere agree on.
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No they don't. This "perfect practice" concept has gotten to be so cliché that I think it has lost its meaning. I put it right next to the player that says "they are giving it their 110%." Only to be followed by the guy that is slightly outworking his counterpart by giving "111%".

Anyway, there is no such thing as "perfect practice", coaches all know this. So the question becomes - are you only going to play pool for 10 minutes a day because that is all you can do at 100% focus? Or are you going to play for a couple of hours, understanding that there are some diminishing returns on this practice time. The more focused time is obviously more beneficial than the less focused time and of course at some point, when you are so bewildered you are shooting pool with the wrong end of the cue you should probably take a break.

But since you mentioned coaching, do you think that a good coach would not take the opportunity to work on something with his team because they were not "perfectly" focused that day? It seems like most coaches find something to do with the practice time that they are allocated regardless of whether or not everybody is practicing perfectly.

That's all I was trying to say.

Didn't really mean to jump on RandyG since I have gotten a lot of useful information out his posts in the past year or so that I have been actively reading this forum.
 
I have an observation and question.

If the discussion about aiming 'systems' in general, and CTE specifically, revolves around pure aim then I would think that it would be a topic widely discussed by snooker devotees, since pure aim would be more important on a snooker table, where the margin of error is smaller. Yet, I don't see this discussion taking place.

Why is that?
 
BasementDweller said:
No they don't. This "perfect practice" concept has gotten to be so cliché that I think it has lost its meaning. I put it right next to the player that says "they are giving it their 110%." Only to be followed by the guy that is slightly outworking his counterpart by giving "111%".

Anyway, there is no such thing as "perfect practice", coaches all know this. So the question becomes - are you only going to play pool for 10 minutes a day because that is all you can do at 100% focus? Or are you going to play for a couple of hours, understanding that there are some diminishing returns on this practice time. The more focused time is obviously more beneficial than the less focused time and of course at some point, when you are so bewildered you are shooting pool with the wrong end of the cue you should probably take a break.

But since you mentioned coaching, do you think that a good coach would not take the opportunity to work on something with his team because they were not "perfectly" focused that day? It seems like most coaches find something to do with the practice time that they are allocated regardless of whether or not everybody is practicing perfectly.

That's all I was trying to say.

Didn't really mean to jump on RandyG since I have gotten a lot of useful information out his posts in the past year or so that I have been actively reading this forum.
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No, a good coach sends the team home rather than allow them be sloppy in practice. I have been sent home for not being focused.
 
swest said:
I have an observation and question.

If the discussion about aiming 'systems' in general, and CTE specifically, revolves around pure aim then I would think that it would be a topic widely discussed by snooker devotees, since pure aim would be more important on a snooker table, where the margin of error is smaller. Yet, I don't see this discussion taking place.

Why is that?
Click to expand...

I found a lot of discussion about aiming on snooker forums when I looked several months ago. Not as much as here because here 3/4 of the discussions here are not really about aiming but instead are about people arguing about whether aiming should be talked about.
 
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