A CTE test!
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
I am not sure if you are asking if the things in your diagram are coveredn in the dvd, or if you are referenceing a post that I made saying that the answers are in the dvd. That post by me was in reference to a post made by joliet james, not your diagrams. I think the questions in your diagrams are answered in the dvd, or more so, from correctly understanding the system. The dvd does have the needed info, but it could have been more thouroughly explained in places with more views (such as behind the shot) to help understand it. It took me a lot of trial, practice, and frustration, as well as help from others on here to get what I was doing wrong initially.
Patrick,
Please read this post in its entirety. I am taking the time to describe how anyone can objectively find the lines for themselves with a way to know if they have done it correctly. Please take the time to read the whole thing.
I believe that one of the drawbacks to the dvd's presentation, is that not everyone will see the lines the same way Stan does due to eye dominace and other factors. Thus I suggested the above means of finding the line. It is VERY simple and objective with a means to tell if you are correct in your sighting.
Again: 1. Take a straight in shot, and sight it as you think the DVD tells you to (that would be your perception of what seeing CB center to OB edge, and CB left edge, to OB point A is).
2. Look down at the CB once you see this sight line, and identify the center of the cue ball. That is your main reference point from here.
3. Now move your bridge hand into position to place the cue tip 1/2 tip off of the center of the CB (of course with your bridge hand at the right distance for the shot as described on the dvd). You do not need to worry about where it is compared to the CTE line. Putting your hand in place to be 1/2 tip off center will get you in the right place.
4. Pivot to center and look up. If you are not straight in, then your perception of the lines as described will not get you into the correct CTE line. To get there, you simply adjust your reference points for the sight lines until you are straight in after the pivot. For example, when I first tried the system, I was short of being straight every time after the pivot. Thus I knew that the angle created by my sight lines was too great. I adjusted my sight lines until I saw that the right edge of the ball of the OB intersected with the right quarter of the CB instead of the center. I also see L edge of the CB to the OB left quarter. Once I got to this point (which happened after several failed attempts to decrease the angle enough), I was straight in after the pivot. Now whenever I have a shot needing alignament to point A or C, I use this, and the shot goes. For shots needing alignment with point B, I adjusted the sight lines also according to how much I had to adjust the first sight lines.
That gives you an objective way to see if your sight lines put you at the correct reference point or not. It is a straight in shot, so you are either correct after the pivot or not. If not, your sight lines and resultant reference point for CB center are off.
I really hope that anyone with any real pool skill can put their tip 1/2 tip off center of an established point, and pivot to center. If not, I doubt any system will work well for them.
Please let me know if you need any clarification, or greater detail for any of the steps. I hope you took the time to read this whole post and give it a little thought.
If someone reads this post, but has not seen the DVD, I want you to realize that you are missing huge amounts of info required for the system. You really need to watch the dvd to get the above info and the rest of the system.
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This was the other post I made regarding how to get into the shot once you have sighted things and found the correct center of the CB reference point.
So you "calibrate" how you use the two lines by trying different eye positions until you find the exact position to make straight-in shots. Then what do you do for non-straight-in shots that use the same Aimpoint "A" visual and same pivot?
pj
chgo
Yes!
These two lines will then be your sight lines for all shots that require a sight to point A or C (of course the edge you sight will vary for a right or left cut). Straight in shots use A or C, as do a number of other shots as you saw on the video. These sight lines now get you to the same spot Stan would be on any A or C based shot. The difference is just that you visually see the relationship differently than him or many others because of visual perception differences.
Because my adjustment was a quarter ball adjustment from Stan's lines, I simply adjusted the sight lines for point B a quarter ball, and those shots then worked also. Different people's might be different. I am one of the few people who sight shots with both eyes naturally which is probably why I didn't perceive the sight lines correctly as Stan showed them. I imagine that a lot people having trouble with the system are either not seeing like Stan shows, or are not understanding what he means in his description of how to sight the lines. None the less, if you do what I described, you will find sight lines that get you where you need to be. Everything is pretty simple from there.
You seem to have missed the fact that I asked a question.
Are you saying that only straight-in shots can be made using aimpoint A/right pivot? If other, non-straight-in shots are also made use aimpoint A/right pivot, how does your carefully-calibrated-for-straight-in-shots eye position work for them?
pj
chgo
Stan's quite clear that the CTE line is to be visualized as running across the top of the cue ball. Here's a bunch of pictures. They were drawn with SketchUp (my thanks to Jal for the table) and captured with Greenshot (this got better images than saving them as .jpg files with SketchUp for some reason).
These are all of one shot: a right cut of about 22-23 degrees, which calls for an outside tip placement relative to the cue ball center, and a left pivot (which is only necessary if you use the outside tip placement, which itself isn't really necessary, but probably is useful as a training aid). I removed the ghost ball for all but the first image.
The left image is roughly from the player's view before moving to set his bridge; the middle one looks almost directly down on the table; the right one looks along the Edge-to-B line (approximately), but it's still looking down somewhat.
This is from the side, about the middle of the CB-OB line, and about the height of the middle of the balls:
Finally, the most interesting one (to me, at the moment). This is another effort to get the player's view as he moves to set his bridge; it looks along the Edge-to-B line. Note the relationship of the CTE line (orange-ish) and the ghost ball line (white). Also note the black line to the right of the ghost ball line.
The black line is the vertical projection of the visualized orange CTE line onto the table. Visually, from the player's point of view those lines are pretty far apart horizontally - around an inch apart at around eight inches behind the cue ball along the ghost ball line - i.e., at a reasonable bridge point. Several things come immediately to mind. (See note at end of post.)
When Shuffett refers to the CTE line, which of those lines does he mean? Or does he mean Jal's, which is visualized as being through the centroid of the cue ball and lies between the two I show, though still to the right of the ghost ball line? (Jal's is interesting and possibly the most useful of the three, but it may be too hard for players to visualize. Also, I don't yet know how to draw it with SketchUp.
) To further illustrate the difficulties (that I perceive), here's the image from exactly the same angle (we know this because the Edge-to-B line is still vertical on your screen - well, on mine, anyway) but a different distance and elevation.
The difference is that we are further back and higher. Notice where the orange CTE line has moved to visually.
Unfortunately, another thing I don't yet know how to do with SketchUp is tell it to put its camera at a certain location in space. I'd like to do that because I'd like to see how all of this looks with the camera at the level of a standing player's eyes (because that's where Shuffett says to get the visuals), which would be about 30-40 inches above the table and mostly around three to four feet behind the cue ball, I think.
I know I said "Several things" above, but it's 0400, I'm rather tired of this right now, and hungry. I'm going to go make a couple of grilled bacon-cheese sandwiches and finish off the Petite Sirah we had for dinner. If anybody is interested, I'll try to go into the other stuff later. Except for the difficulty I perceive in representing most of CTE/ProOne accurately in 2D, which I'm tired of talking about. Oh... and except for "exactness" which was never of much interest to me.
-- jwp
---------------------------
Note: Here I'm using the phrase "Several things come immediately to mind." in the sense that academics in higher-end research universities use it, which is closely related to the meaning of "It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer...". The difference is that the former has the lay meaning "I've worked on this 17 hours a day for the last five years and I think I may have finally figured out what some of the problems are, maybe."; whereas the latter means "I've worked on this 17 hours a day for the last five years...." and either (a) "... I understand it but it's really hard and I'm not about to give it away to the likes of you." or (b, which is more likely) "... I haven't got a clue what the hell is happening in there but this sort of looks right, I hope, and I hope you aren't so gauche as to ask about it, especially if you expect to [graduate/get your PhD/get tenure - as appropriate].".
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LOL. I guess it's just a strange coincidence that none of these people has actually done that. Even Stan the CTE guru, on his own $40 "instructional" DVD (you know, the one that was supposed to send all the CTE examiners scurrying back into the woodwork with their tails between their legs), has only raised more questions.
Of course, none of this would even be an issue if these x-angle systems weren't still being promoted and defended as "exact" - we derailed that fantasy more than ten years ago. You guys stepped in it when you decided to promote CTE as a "center pocket system" - now you can't use "pocket slop" as an excuse any more.
pj
chgo
CTE is a System or Tool, IMHO you will get out of it what you put in. Use the "system", and practice, practice CTE will net you results with CTE.
IMHO CTE is a very real deal when I am able to plan a shot with CTE, and then execute the plan 110% correct. I get the desired result that being make the shot, and being in position for the NEXT EASY SHOT.
I have been playing maybe 50-80% Better on Shots I use to miss, now they go in the hole.
I am not selling anything, I will not make a penny off of you telling you to read all the FREE INFORMATION AVAILABLE to master CTE. Plus I have zero to gain if you learn CTE, and play me some day, as I am my looses.
So IMHO the more people who know CTE will be more potential people I could loose a game of One Pocket too.
IMHO CTE is a very real deal when I am able to plan a shot with CTE, and then execute the plan 110% correct. I get the desired result that being make the shot, and being in position for the NEXT EASY SHOT.
I have been playing maybe 50-80% Better on Shots I use to miss, now they go in the hole.
I am not selling anything, I will not make a penny off of you telling you to read all the FREE INFORMATION AVAILABLE to master CTE. Plus I have zero to gain if you learn CTE, and play me some day, as I am my looses.
So IMHO the more people who know CTE will be more potential people I could loose a game of One Pocket too.
Well there you have it, folks. The other half of the dynamic duo has spoken.
Sign me up for some of that CTE. I wanna get eighty per-cent better.
Sign me up for some of that CTE. I wanna get eighty per-cent better.
You know the system better than most, so you say. Can you explain to me in steps how to do it and how the system works? you have still proved nothing PJ, anything you have stated has been your own opinion. we say you make an adjustment and you come out of the woodwork and say "i new it, adjustment means feel, this whole system is feel, bla,bla,bla" prove to me one point you have made?
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Well there you have it, folks. The other half of the dynamic duo has spoken.
Sign me up for some of that CTE. I wanna get eighty per-cent better.
Have you tried to use CTE, or or you just TROLLING?
CTE is like God some believe, so do not it is your FREE CHOICE.
Have you tried to use CTE, or or you just TROLLING?
CTE is like God some believe, so do not it is your FREE CHOICE.
its non cte people who are trying to hype the system to god like levels, so they can try and tear it down, you have it backwards friend
If a certain few would just stop there bs, you would see everyone getting along just fine.
C'mon Cowboy. If I could get eighty per-cent better, as you say, hell there's no telling where my game would take me. Trolling? No, Sirree. Sign me up. Count me in. I'm down.
By-the-way. Where did you learn to use the 'big blue font'?
By-the-way. Where did you learn to use the 'big blue font'?
When I watched Stevie Moore play in the last few years, he often bent over quite a bit to sight something from a considerable distance and then kind of crept into the shooting position. In other words, it seems like he is getting his visuals from down low rather than standing upright.
At 4 AM???!!!
I don't say I know the system better than" most"; this is another example of your lack of basic comprehension. I say I know it better than any CTE users who post here about it.
And I have made many "points"; this is yet another example of your lack of basic comprehension. As I've said over and over, the system works by giving the user some approximate (not "exact") alignment steps that the user finishes by feel. I've even (many times) pointed out the places where the system is "user-driven":
1. when the "secondary aim line" is chosen by the user
2. when the pivot direction is chosen by the user
3. when the eye position and "CB center" are chosen by the user
4. when the bridge placement and pivot are chosen/performed by the user
Obviously, these user-driven things make up just about the entire "system" - the "systematic steps" are pretty much all pretense that the system is in control so the user won't suffer a distracting crisis of confidence about his ability to do it. That's how the system "works" and what I know that you don't.
It's no surprise to me that you haven't understood these things - you've hardly understood anything in these threads. Now, after making false accusations based on your basic lack of comprehension, you'll claim that my pointing out your lack of comprehension is another example of CTE users being "insulted" and "attacked" (and, of course, so will Saint Joey of Bluefont).
pj
chgo
My lack of basic comprehension, you didn't really post that did you? I do understand everything you have posted also! You do realize you and a couple of your buddies are the only ones who keep bring this "exact" word in to these cte threads now and keep this issue going. Every time people try and get passed that word you keep bringing us back to it, your stuck on it. What is exact is stans description of it, he say he comfortable describing the system in an exact way to people now.
Spiderwebcomm said he believes if the math is worked out, his opinion is the system is exact, i dont know what his meaning of exact is? and he was willing to work together with anyone on here to try and figure it out and see if his opinion was correct. I remember reading this and i think nobody took up his offer.
Those are not points you posted lol anyone with basic comprehension knows its user driven and choices are made. We are not robots, again i ask what points have you made? i still have you at zero.
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Your (and other CTE users') lack of basic comprehension makes it impossible to have an intelligible conversation with you and is the real reason these threads go on forever. There aren't any real disagreements - for that to be true you'd have to understand what you're disagreeing with. There are just endless repeating loops of the same points being made and misunderstood, over and over and over.
pj
chgo