Can you guys help me with a APA rule? I would like to know if the following situation would result in a ball in hand foul. There are three balls involved which are all in straight line. In the middle the cue ball is close or nearly married to the opponent's ball and my guy's ball is probably six or seven inches away from the cue ball. My guy has to use the bridge to shoot over the opponent's ball into the cue ball. My guy did a couple of practice strokes and while drawing his stick back he inadvertently drew his opponent's ball with his stick and then immediately shot the cue ball into his own ball. The other team's captain called a foul. I argued that it was no foul because only the cue ball can cause fouls in APA and asked the captain to show me the rule in team manual. The other team's captain relented. The team manual says “Any balls moved accidentally during a shot must be replaced by the opponent after the shot is over and all balls have stopped rolling. If it occurs before the shot,it must be replaced before the shot is taken.” The manual does not state what happens if the ball is not replaced. What is the correct ruling? Thanks.
APA foul?
- Thread starter bandit99
- Start date
Yes, you were correct. In a case like this, the back stroke is considered "during the shot", not "before the shot". It would be interpreted that way for any case where the shooter pulls the trigger before he/she can be stopped.
So while shooting over a ball,,that is almost touching the cue. He moves that ball ,,on the backstroke,,pulling it toward him and out of the way of the cue. And then strokes the cue ,,clean.
Do I have it right?? If yes,,I think it would have to be a foul. I don't know the official rule though. I can see where that is a tough call and tough to put in a rule book.
Other than something like,,,player must strike cue first,, while attempting a shot.
Think about it,,,,,,, if it's not a foul,,,why shoot over the ball to get to the cue,,,lol. Just stroke the ball touching the cue. Same difference really.
There has to be a rule stating the cue must be stuck first during a shot.
Do I have it right?? If yes,,I think it would have to be a foul. I don't know the official rule though. I can see where that is a tough call and tough to put in a rule book.
Other than something like,,,player must strike cue first,, while attempting a shot.
Think about it,,,,,,, if it's not a foul,,,why shoot over the ball to get to the cue,,,lol. Just stroke the ball touching the cue. Same difference really.
There has to be a rule stating the cue must be stuck first during a shot.
The salient points are a) the moved ball doesn't touch the cue ball, and b) the cue ball hits his ball first after the stroke. Moving an object ball isn't a foul in the APA, you just have to replace it.
Moving an object ball into the cue ball is specifically a foul in the APA. Accidentally moving an object ball while shooting the cue ball specifically isn't.
I see your point.
What about moving a object ball that is in play of the cue?? Which this ball certainly is,,even though it is behind the cue,,it is in play.
Correct.... but you must add that this will give BIH to the opponent.
The cue ball is always live... drop the chalk on the cue ball and the opponent gets BIH.
Kim
Because that's what you're supposed to try to do? There's a big distinction here - in the OP's case, it's accidental contact, while what you suggest is intentional. If it's intentional then you could be subject to sportsmanship penalties.
Yes, one could do it intentionally while making it look accidental. There are plenty of things (a scoop shot, for instance, or taking too many time outs, or even simply missing a shot) that could be done intentionally and made to look accidental by someone to whom winning is more important than fair play. When I come across someone like that I make it clear to them that they are not welcome in my league.
good luck trying to pull that non foul foul shot off during a gambling match or any kind of tournament.
We had this exact issue come up in a 14.1 tournament. Cue ball fouls only...right up until the guy drew back his cueball 3 ft when he was near froze to a ball. Drama ensued...
We had this exact issue come up in a 14.1 tournament. Cue ball fouls only...right up until the guy drew back his cueball 3 ft when he was near froze to a ball. Drama ensued...
master9baller
Banned
Unfortunately without playing "all ball fouls" the above is not a foul. The problem is that if an opponent moves an OB on his last practice stroke or follow through you can't call foul quickly enough to replace the ball before he shoots.
The only time it would be a foul is if he hit an OB into the path of another ball that changed where that ball would have ended up. It this case it is a foul.
master9baller
Banned
No foul because in a game it's just impossible to call before the player shoots, so they give the call to the shooter. This is "cue ball folus only". "All ball fouls" is different, any contact with any bal is a foul. This required a referee at all time to watch, like the do on ESPN matches sometimes. Not practical for amateur play or most pro events.
master9baller
Banned
Ball fouls
In recent master's play we had an opponent setup on a shot and clearly move the OB that was behind the CB out of the way. He grabs the OB without notifying us and puts it back, butnot in the way where it was. I told him 1) you can;t toucch the OB withuout notifying your opponent, that alone is a foul and 2) that if you do respot the ball at least put it back where it impeded the shot in the first place.
We lost that argument, my job isn't to teach people the basic rules, in a master's league you wouldn't think you would have to.
The proper thng to do is state you hit the OB, stop and ask if they want to respot it. If they do and don;t know where it was let them know by moving it there and they oppponent still can accept it or decline. In actuality they can put it wherever they choose or leave it where you hit it.
In recent master's play we had an opponent setup on a shot and clearly move the OB that was behind the CB out of the way. He grabs the OB without notifying us and puts it back, butnot in the way where it was. I told him 1) you can;t toucch the OB withuout notifying your opponent, that alone is a foul and 2) that if you do respot the ball at least put it back where it impeded the shot in the first place.
We lost that argument, my job isn't to teach people the basic rules, in a master's league you wouldn't think you would have to.
The proper thng to do is state you hit the OB, stop and ask if they want to respot it. If they do and don;t know where it was let them know by moving it there and they oppponent still can accept it or decline. In actuality they can put it wherever they choose or leave it where you hit it.
I like that ruling. :smile:
Thanks for the responses guys. My L.O. is out of town this week and I was just curious what others thought. My teammate that made the shot is a 3 in his early eighties and was just concentrating so hard on making the shot that he did not realize he had moved his oppenent's ball. I just wanted to find out in case this scenario ever happens again.
Again, the question is whether this is a foul in the APA, which it's not. If he does it consistently and intentionally, then it's a sportsmanship violation, but it's not a foul, per se.
As previously stated it isn't a foul unless the ball comes in contact with the cue ball "AT ANY TIME," even if it changes the difficulty of the shot. If someone does move a ball it has to be replaced usually by the opponent. If the shooter replaces it doesn't make it a foul either but it is generally the opponent who puts it back in it's original position.
Not in the APA.