could Xiaoting Pan compete with the Mens pros if...

[risky biz]

Would you post on AZB claiming SVB and a B player are close in skill? No? Then why would you use the same logic to compare SVB to female players?

Your pretension that the best women players in the world are no higher than a "B" (an American pool league rating?) is blatantly ridiculous.

A lot of you are living in a constructed false reality in which if non-English speaking women don't go to the expense of traveling to the US and playing in America's measly payout tournaments then that's proof that they're lower-skilled. I think that probably the reality is that a lot of international players aren't interested in those tournaments for a number of good reasons.

 

[risky biz]

True story but a few years ago the WPBA came to town for a few days and my buddy actually showed up and offered them all the 8 ball except allison and karen who he said he would play even. He is just a shortstop, plays maybe a ball under Bartram.

He got absolutely not action btw.

Your assumption that this automatiocally means he could beat them is wishful thinking. I doubt that either has the least bit of interest in gambling with a nobody. Did he offer a game to Allison Fisher directly or was he just walking around the venue broadcasting his sportiness to anyone who would listen? I doubt that Allison Fisher would even talk to him. How about some details.

Also, BTW- I think there are better female players than Allison Fisher.

 

[risky biz]

True story but a few years ago the WPBA came to town for a few days and my buddy actually showed up and offered them all the 8 ball except allison and karen who he said he would play even. He is just a shortstop, plays maybe a ball under Bartram.

He got absolutely not action btw.

And to answer the previous statement somebody said that some of the girls plays better than some of the Mosconi cup players which is just a joke. and as the poster above stated for it to be significant it would have to be a long race. I have even beaten some good very good players in short races and I am a high b-low a range. Am I gonna beat these players in a long race? no prob not.

Also, by the way- I automatically become more skeptical when someone starts a story with the words "true story".

 

[champ2107]

Several in that list, who I have some familiarity with, can beat the top male pros when they're playing at their best. Someone has already pointed out further up this thread, I believe, that Yu Ram Cha beat Shane Van Boehning and she isn't even in the top six of this list.

i used kelly fisher as an example because i think people are more familiar with her and she is presently 2nd ranked among females. I noticed you say they must be at there best to beat the top guys and what level do the guys have to be playing at for this to happen? Im sure shane has lost many times to an inferior opponent and your going to have to do better than Shane lost to a female once or twice in his life.

 

[risky biz]

i used kelly fisher as an example because i think people are more familiar with her and she is presently 2nd ranked among females. I noticed you say they must be at there best to beat the top guys and what level do the guys have to be playing at for this to happen? Im sure shane has lost many times to an inferior opponent and your going to have to do better than Shane lost to a female once or twice in his life.

I don't have to do better because you said, "Can she beat the top male pro's?" Do you want to change that to something like "A female would have to travel to the US and beat Shane in a race to 100 for money?" Your assertion will be a lot safer with that statement.

 

[Masayoshi]

Your pretension that the best women players in the world are no higher than a "B" (an American pool league rating?) is blatantly ridiculous.

You misread and misrepresented my post, probably on purpose and/or due to poor reading comprehension, but I'll just assume you just skimmed over it and it was an honest mistake.

My argument is that a woman beating SVB in a tournament shows no more about her skill than any other player beating SVB in a tournament, which is very little given that SVB has lost MANY tournaments occasionally to players of lower skill.

Presumably there is a certain skill level that SVB will beat with 100% certainty, but your logic cannot be used to conclude that female players play any better than that low threshold and considering that level is probably not all that high, it does not help your argument that women players are close to the top men. If you want to support the idea that female players play better than that, use a different argument.

A lot of you are living in a constructed false reality in which if non-English speaking women don't go to the expense of traveling to the US and playing in America's measly payout tournaments then that's proof that they're lower-skilled. I think that probably the reality is that a lot of international players aren't interested in those tournaments for a number of good reasons.

They don't go around Asia winning open tournaments either. So there goes that argument.

 

[champ2107]

I don't have to do better because you said, "Can she beat the top male pro's?" Do you want to change that to something like "A female would have to travel to the US and beat Shane in a race to 100 for money?" Your assertion will be a lot safer with that statement.

ok lol yep you are right! im out :thumbup:

 

[RobDeBank]

Your assumption that this automatiocally means he could beat them is wishful thinking. I doubt that either has the least bit of interest in gambling with a nobody. Did he offer a game to Allison Fisher directly or was he just walking around the venue broadcasting his sportiness to anyone who would listen? I doubt that Allison Fisher would even talk to him. How about some details.

Also, BTW- I think there are better female players than Allison Fisher.

His name doesn't matter but he ya I am pretty confident that he was a favorite against any of them at the time and yes he offered this up right to the players faces. He has beaten many players far better than allison and btw this was years ago at time when allison prob was the best female on the planet.

The point remains the same, in a long race any of the top players are HUGE favorites against any of the women. I would love to watch putnam run over any of them I would take so many players in that game that aren't even top pros. I would hands down take bartram, hunter lombardo, gabe owen, jeremy jones, Johnathon Pinnegar... so on and so on.

 

[risky biz]

You misread and misrepresented my post, probably on purpose and/or due to poor reading comprehension, but I'll just assume you just skimmed over it and it was an honest mistake.

Originally Posted by Masayoshi
"Would you post on AZB claiming SVB and a B player are close in skill? No? Then why would you use the same logic to compare SVB to female players?"

Hard to mistake or misrepresent that statement. But if what you want to do below is change it then that's OK with me. I'll just assume that you thought the new statement looks better:

My argument is that a woman beating SVB in a tournament shows no more about her skill than any other player beating SVB in a tournament, which is very little given that SVB has lost MANY tournaments occasionally to players of lower skill.

Well- that's pretty cool. If someone is male they get to be of a higher skill level even when they lose. And if someone is a female then winning doesn't make them winners because they're the same old losers they've always been and winning doesn't count.

Presumably there is a certain skill level that SVB will beat with 100% certainty, but your logic cannot be used to conclude that female players play any better than that low threshold and considering that level is probably not all that high, it does not help your argument that women players are close to the top men. If you want to support the idea that female players play better than that, use a different argument.

It looks a lot like you said that again.

But, in any case, you don't need logic. You just need to open your eyes. But if you like it better when they're closed- well, OK.

They don't go around Asia winning open tournaments either. So there goes that argument.

By open tournaments in Asia I assume you're referring to tournaments where women can play against men and it's sanctioned by the WPA. Could you list those, please?

 

[risky biz]

His name doesn't matter but he ya I am pretty confident that he was a favorite against any of them at the time and yes he offered this up right to the players faces. He has beaten many players far better than allison and btw this was years ago at time when allison prob was the best female on the planet.

The point remains the same, in a long race any of the top players are HUGE favorites against any of the women. I would love to watch putnam run over any of them I would take so many players in that game that aren't even top pros. I would hands down take bartram, hunter lombardo, gabe owen, jeremy jones, Johnathon Pinnegar... so on and so on.

Woof, woof!:boring2:

 

[Masayoshi]

Originally Posted by Masayoshi
"Would you post on AZB claiming SVB and a B player are close in skill? No? Then why would you use the same logic to compare SVB to female players?"

Hard to mistake or misrepresent that statement. But if what you want to do below is change it then that's OK with me. I'll just assume that you thought the new statement looks better:

You misrepresented it by saying:

Your pretension that the best women players in the world are no higher than a "B" (an American pool league rating?) is blatantly ridiculous.

No where in my previous statement did I say that the best women are no higher than B players. I'll quote it again just to show you.

Would you post on AZB claiming SVB and a B player are close in skill? No? Then why would you use the same logic to compare SVB to female players?

Would you like to point out where in that statement I said that the best women are no higher than B players? Nowhere? I thought so. You're right, It was difficult to misrepresent that statement, but you somehow managed to do it.

Well- that's pretty cool. If someone is male they get to be of a higher skill level even when they lose. And if someone is a female then winning doesn't make them winners because they're the same old losers they've always been and winning doesn't count.

Good job attacking a strawman and trying to appeal to emotion rather than making a rational argument. Although I guess I should expect nothing less gathering from your previous posts. If you had a hard time understanding the above, it meant simply that; what you posted there is drivel, has no place in a debate, and doesn't even warrant a rebuttal.

It looks a lot like you said that again.

Yep, and it looks like you failed to understand it again.

But, in any case, you don't need logic. You just need to open your eyes. But if you like it better when they're closed- well, OK.

Nobody needs logic, but to be viewed by others as a smart and rational individual, it is necessary, especially in a debate or discussion. My eyes are open and they see that your arguments are either full of holes or against strawmen.

By open tournaments in Asia I assume you're referring to tournaments where women can play against men and it's sanctioned by the WPA. Could you list those, please?

I don't know about WPA sanctioned tournaments, but why is that important? The WPA purposefully divides the ranks between gender because they know that the women wouldn't be very competitive if they were put in competition with the men. If there was demand for any woman to play in the mens events, I doubt it would be a challenge to get the WPA to let them play in it.

Like I said, there are plenty of open tournaments in Asia that the top women don't go around winning.

Here's a few in Japan:

Kyoto Open
Nagoya Open
Tohoku Open
There are more, but I am not familiar with them. These are only ones that I have entered or considered entering myself.

Actually any open event in Japan that does not have a separate women's division allows female pros to play. I assume the same is in other countries.

 

[DaddysVisa]

actually Efren said he doesn't like snooker. There is a legend which says Efren beat O'Sullivan and Jimmy White race to 5 using a pool cue. He also made 3 centuries. I don't believe that. But during the SEA games he made a century for sure. At the question "can you beat the european snooker players"? He responded "I can't, they are too good". Which is totally predictable considering he doesn't play snooker at all and he is also way over his prime.

Here is a quote from Darryl Peach in an interview after his World Championship win:

Q: "Who, in your opinion, was the greatest ever to pick up a cue (snooker, pool, whatever)?"

"Snooker: Ronnie O'Sullivan

Pool: Efren Reyes

Overall: Efren because I saw him play Jimmy White and Ronnie O'Sullivan 6 years ago, at snooker best of 5 for £100 each if I remember rightly: he beat both of them with his pool cue, and he made 3 centuries!! Now that's special."

I had heard this story from several credible people before I saw this quote. Darryl seems like an honest guy, I don't think this story is made up.

 

[risky biz]

Like I said, there are plenty of open tournaments in Asia that the top women don't go around winning.

Here's a few in Japan:

Kyoto Open
Nagoya Open
Tohoku Open
There are more, but I am not familiar with them. These are only ones that I have entered or considered entering myself.

Actually any open event in Japan that does not have a separate women's division allows female pros to play. I assume the same is in other countries.

Never heard of them. They sound like local events that don't draw as much participation as something like the Amway Cup, etc. There is probably a good reason other than skill that they don't choose those tournaments to compete in- no contribution to their WPA ranking, prize money, etc.

I think you're stipulating that if they don't appear in your local, favorite tournament then it's proof of the superiority of those who do. Surely you must see the illogic of that.

But- is there any video of the top three or four players at these events? Put it up and let those here decide by comparing to the videos which I and others posted earlier.

 

[risky biz]

I don't know about WPA sanctioned tournaments, but why is that important? The WPA purposefully divides the ranks between gender because they know that the women wouldn't be very competitive if they were put in competition with the men. If there was demand for any woman to play in the mens events, I doubt it would be a challenge to get the WPA to let them play in it.

Maybe it's to protect the men's egos? Something similar happened in the US with Jean Balukas. She tried to enter men's events but a lot of the men objected complaining that if she enetered men's events then they should be able to enter women's events. I suspect that the best men players would be willing to play the best women players but men below the top level don't want to get run over by a woman.