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Is a Straight Stroke All That Important?
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
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Ultimately, what matters is balls behaving the way the shooter expects.
However, for amateur players that make up the bulk of this boards population, doesn't a foundation in some kind of repeatable pre-shot routine help to make their path to consistent ball behavior easier?
Accordingly, if an amateur player is going to tinker with pre-shot routines, fundamentals, a straight stroke, etc. Why try an have a system the produces the straightest stroke possible?
So, I say that it is alright for Efren to have his loopiness and not worry about McCready shooting standing straight up and sideways, as their technique is built through CONSTANT and stressful competition, but for amateurs, even high-level amateurs, a straight stroke that is repeatable is less likely to let them down when they are in periodic stressful competition...right?
kollegedave
However, for amateur players that make up the bulk of this boards population, doesn't a foundation in some kind of repeatable pre-shot routine help to make their path to consistent ball behavior easier?
Accordingly, if an amateur player is going to tinker with pre-shot routines, fundamentals, a straight stroke, etc. Why try an have a system the produces the straightest stroke possible?
So, I say that it is alright for Efren to have his loopiness and not worry about McCready shooting standing straight up and sideways, as their technique is built through CONSTANT and stressful competition, but for amateurs, even high-level amateurs, a straight stroke that is repeatable is less likely to let them down when they are in periodic stressful competition...right?
kollegedave
if you cannot place your tip on the CB consistently where you intend to.. all of your successful shots are merely accidents..
trying to get better at pool with a bad stroke is like trying to get really good at rolling 7's with 2 dice...you can practice all you want but any success will still be determined by random chance..
trying to get better at pool with a bad stroke is like trying to get really good at rolling 7's with 2 dice...you can practice all you want but any success will still be determined by random chance..
I think underlying what I was trying to say was not so much to debase a straight stroke, but rather that a repeatable stroke *that gives you repeatable results* might be more important.
Lou Figueroa
If your PSR is solid, and you really understand its intricacies, you'll go through whatever sworpes and swarps under pressure better than the guy who strokes straighter but perhaps less consistently.
Lou Figueroa
But, but... what if you're a natural mit a crooked or side-armed stroke, as many a great player has been? Didn't Greenleaf and Hoppe have huge honkin' swerpes in their strokes?
Lou Figueroa
I think the most important thing is to have a repetitive stroke. If it repeats and is dead straight, then even better. We all have in our head the belief that it is possible to play "perfect" and to do so we have to build a straight stroke.
Most of us, despite what instructors tell us, cannot do so, we are limited by all those variables, eyesight, hand to eye coordination, ability, talent, etc etc. obviously you see less linear cue actions in pool than snooker because the demand of accuracy for potting is lesser. However, particularly in 9 ball you see softer, more controlled actions at times because 9 ball is not a potting game, it is a one ball position game.
That said, there always comes a time when a big lot has to be made and it is the player with the more reliable stroke under pressure who will do so, note I do not say straighter stroke under pressure.
Cue sports are memory games and while we can strive for that dead straight action, who uses one? When do top snooker players fall down the rankings? When they get married, have a kid and stop or drastically reduce their practice time. Does their action get less straight?
No. Their coordination and timing fails, it is this coordination and timing that counteracts the error or errors in their actions and allows them to hit the ball the way they think they are trying to.
In my opinion instructors should give a pupil the basics and then leave them alone to find their own way, which can only be done by hours of practice. There is no short cut for these hours of practice and this is the lie that many instructors sell us. I fully believe in coaching but it is possible to coach the talent and touch out of a pupil, it is not possible to coach talent and touch into a pupil.
Let most cue sports instructors I know loose on Greenleaf, McCreadie, Alex Higgins, Earl etc and you'd have four shop assistants in no time.
The stroke has to repeat, yes, the closer to perfect the better but it has to repeat. Jim Furyk repeats, Tiger talks of doing "thousands of reps" every time he tinkers with his technique, there is no substitute for practice.
Sorry that rambled on a bit, hopefully you get the point.
Most of us, despite what instructors tell us, cannot do so, we are limited by all those variables, eyesight, hand to eye coordination, ability, talent, etc etc. obviously you see less linear cue actions in pool than snooker because the demand of accuracy for potting is lesser. However, particularly in 9 ball you see softer, more controlled actions at times because 9 ball is not a potting game, it is a one ball position game.
That said, there always comes a time when a big lot has to be made and it is the player with the more reliable stroke under pressure who will do so, note I do not say straighter stroke under pressure.
Cue sports are memory games and while we can strive for that dead straight action, who uses one? When do top snooker players fall down the rankings? When they get married, have a kid and stop or drastically reduce their practice time. Does their action get less straight?
No. Their coordination and timing fails, it is this coordination and timing that counteracts the error or errors in their actions and allows them to hit the ball the way they think they are trying to.
In my opinion instructors should give a pupil the basics and then leave them alone to find their own way, which can only be done by hours of practice. There is no short cut for these hours of practice and this is the lie that many instructors sell us. I fully believe in coaching but it is possible to coach the talent and touch out of a pupil, it is not possible to coach talent and touch into a pupil.
Let most cue sports instructors I know loose on Greenleaf, McCreadie, Alex Higgins, Earl etc and you'd have four shop assistants in no time.
The stroke has to repeat, yes, the closer to perfect the better but it has to repeat. Jim Furyk repeats, Tiger talks of doing "thousands of reps" every time he tinkers with his technique, there is no substitute for practice.
Sorry that rambled on a bit, hopefully you get the point.
The foundation I want is the one that's going to perform under pressure and to me it seems that having a chicken-wing stroke that you know and understand and makes the object balls go into de pockets and de cue ball travel to it's designated positions with proper precision is better than being picture perfect like in the books and videos.
I'm saying a crooked stroke, or even one with loops in it, might be a fine foundation if it gives you predictable results.
Lou Figueroa
I think 2 things.....
A "straight stroke" is a subjective term and I think you may underestimate the ability to deliver it consistently.
This subject has been covered many times before and my opinion is still the same.
The specifics of a persons stroke are largely unimportant. The most important factor above all else is that the stroke, whatever it may be, is delivered consistently and precisely where intended each and every time and at will under any amount of pressure.
That is the ultimate goal regardless of what it looks like when you get there.
I think we're in agreement. It's more about consistent delivery.
Lou Figueroa
I think that might be overrating the merits of a straight stroke. Suppose the stroke is straight but lacks speed control?
Lou Figueroa
I think we agree. Making the balls behave in a predictable manner is what it's all about.
Lou Figueroa
Than's an interesting point: straight at the time of impact is what's important.
I also agree with you about the something extra. I know that when I'm playing well I feel like I'm "dabbing" the ball as in "how'd he dab that one?!"
Lou Figueroa
On a larger table yes and perhaps why snooker players have the mechanics they do. But on a 9' table, not so much. And that's why pool players have the mechanics they do.
And, if a swoop is consistent, it is not a variable.
Lou Figueroa
I had to disagree and rephrase : The only way to truly be aware of where you're hitting the ball with accuracy is to have a *repeatable* stroke.
Lou Figueroa
Yes, it's all about a repeatable PSR. And for most guys success is going to end up looking something like a straight stroke. However, which would you rather: a picture perfect straight stroke that makes you a 30 ball runner, or a stroke with a hitch in it that makes you a 60 ball runner?
Looking at the pros you can see that very few have a perfectly straight stroke. That does not preclude them from playing pretty sporty though. I'm just saying that I think there is too much emphasis on being able to stroke a cue through the neck of a Coke bottle.
Lou Figueroa
Good grief man, puleeeseee get off the anti-instructor thing. That is not what this is about.
Lou Figueroa