Would this test work?

Jodacus

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
I think I'm safe in assuming most of
us agree that a heavier tipped shaft
creates more squirt than a lighter one.

Set up to shoot a ball into the
rail from 2 diamonds away in such a way
as to make ball position, hand position, stroke
(speed and angle) as repeatable as possible.

Shoot this "set up" with side spin with a heavier
shaft and then again with a lighter shaft.
Wouldn't the resulting position of the ball give
some indication in difference in squirt between the
two shafts? Or are even good players too inconsistent
to produce reliable results?
 
Jodacus said:
I think I'm safe in assuming most of
us agree that a heavier tipped shaft
creates more squirt than a lighter one.

Set up to shoot a ball into the
rail from 2 diamonds away in such a way
as to make ball position, hand position, stroke
(speed and angle) as repeatable as possible.

Shoot this "set up" with side spin with a heavier
shaft and then again with a lighter shaft.
Wouldn't the resulting position of the ball give
some indication in difference in squirt between the
two shafts? Or are even good players too inconsistent
to produce reliable results?
Click to expand...

I would not rely on that test. The problem, as you say would be the player's consistancy. Can he put the exact identical spin on the ball & can he hit rail at exactly the same angle & then there is the speed of hit that effects each shafts LD qualities. Dr. Dave has a video on finding a shafts best bridge point or 'focrum' point. I think that might be a better gauge. Just to clarify, when U say heavier & lighter, I assume, & one never should, that U are talking about the shafts, & not the total weight. If U are testing total weight, it's not weight but the make up of the cue, more precisely the shaft end, ferrule material, taper etc. Although Mr. Muecci says that even the but end can effect deflection to some degree & I believe his theory is concerned with the butt actually flexing some. In the videos of him testing cues with & without his black dot shaft, he was rather surprised how well the Adams-Balabushka hit without a LD shaft. Go to Meucci site and take a look it is interesting & informative, though I would probably never want a Muecci cue. They have always seemed to whippy for ME. But, many people love them. So, to each his own, Sorly for being so long winded.
 
DoubleD said:
Hmmmm...testing a piece of equipment in the EXACT way in which said equipment is going to be used?

Seems like it might be an okay test to me.

dld
Click to expand...

Right back at you!

So he's going to be shooting every shot off a perpindicular rail hit with english. I wish him luck with that.

You must be related to... no I'm not going say it.

Have a nice day.
 
Jodacus said:
I think I'm safe in assuming most of
us agree that a heavier tipped shaft
creates more squirt than a lighter one.

Set up to shoot a ball into the
rail from 2 diamonds away in such a way
as to make ball position, hand position, stroke
(speed and angle) as repeatable as possible.

Shoot this "set up" with side spin with a heavier
shaft and then again with a lighter shaft.
Wouldn't the resulting position of the ball give
some indication in difference in squirt between the
two shafts? Or are even good players too inconsistent
to produce reliable results?
Click to expand...
You can't rely on people, even pros, to be as consistent and precise as you need for reliable testing, but you can add physical limitations (like blocking balls to ensure the same spot on the rail is hit each time) and accuracy tests (like checking the chalk mark on the cue ball each time to ensure the same tip offset and only counting shots that go the right distance).

Even with "controls" like that you'd have to shoot lots of shots with each shaft and with different shooters and average the results to "smooth out" inconsistencies.

pj
chgo
 
DoubleD said:
No, but he is going to be shooting every shot, not some machine. It is safe to presume that the variations in his ability to hit a particular spot on a rail are similar to his ability to hit a particular spot on an object ball.

I think it is a valid test.

dld

BTW, if you want to throw insults out, don't insinuate. Tell me who I remind U of.
Click to expand...

Maybe I misunderstand his proposed test, but I would rather see him do a test on hitting a ball rather than a rail & gauging the result by the cue ball reaction. Can he spin it exactly the same each time. I know I can't. The round to round hit on a ball, I think is a better gauge of cue ball squirt than a rail.

No insult intended. I probably read between lines something that was not there. I should have backed that out insted of typing out my thoughts.
Sorry.
 
It's a great test as long as you do enough test strokes. You'll probably need about 100 strokes of each english position (at a variety of speeds) to have data that you can rely on. You'll need to set up a systematic way to record the results of each stroke. One of the most important pieces of data is your accuracy on the cue ball, so you'll need to rig up (or buy) a training cue ball where you can easily see how accurate your "one tip of english" strokes were.

Let's assume 6 english positions (1/2 tip, full tip and 1-1/2 tip on both left and right sides of center). That's 600 strokes. Probably need to test each postion at 3 speeds (slow, medium and fast?). That's 1800 strokes, which is pretty doable.

The good news is that your test gives you much more usable information than a "computer-mechanical test". It tells you as much, or more, about the shooter as it does about the shaft.
 
I test deflection this way.I shoot an easy cut shot into a corner pocket with inside english and with outside english.If I am cutting a ball to the right with outside (left) english the englsih will throw the ball to the right and inside (right) english will throw the shot to the left.I normally play with a low deflection shaft so If I am testing a maple shaft the shot will go to the opposite side of the pocket as it would with the LD shaft.For me it takes several shots to get an idea how much deflection a cue,shaft or tip has.
 
DoubleD said:
We're good. It seemed that you took my post as an attack on you/your post.

It wasn't intended to be.

I don't think any one test should be looked at as the single necessary test. Adding your ball strike test is a great idea.

Have fun!

dld
Click to expand...

Thanks. Glad we're good. I'm not in here to make any enemies. I'm just trying to help with my 2 cents, but since I'm a bit long winded they generally turn into 5 cents. I wish I could find a Bank like that in real life.

Have a good one today & especially if you're playing today.
 
Jodacus said:
I think I'm safe in assuming most of
us agree that a heavier tipped shaft
creates more squirt than a lighter one.

Set up to shoot a ball into the
rail from 2 diamonds away in such a way
as to make ball position, hand position, stroke
(speed and angle) as repeatable as possible.

Shoot this "set up" with side spin with a heavier
shaft and then again with a lighter shaft.
Wouldn't the resulting position of the ball give
some indication in difference in squirt between the
two shafts? Or are even good players too inconsistent
to produce reliable results?
Click to expand...

It would give an 'indication' IMO.

It also seems to add more variables than other 'test' methods.
 
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