Tennis arm / tennis elbow operation?

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Anyone undergone this type of surgery? How did it go? Anything I need to know or make sure of?

Please feel free to PM me if you prefer not to discuss this in public.

Going to hospital tomorrow for what I understand is going to be ambulatory examination - for the time being.

Given my medical record, it seems silly that I should be afraid of a little operation on my elbow, but I have a distinctly uneasy feeling about this, and my gut instinct has rarely betrayed me.

It might help to hear from others who have experienced the same, as far as I know, the condition per se isn't exactly rare?

Thanks in advance!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

GearHead_1

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I've had a number of joint related surgeries (including replacement, knees) in my life. Most of the time you look back on these type of surgeries and realize you've lost something. You're just not as good as you were before the problem began. Tennis elbow/arm surgeries are the two surgeries that I have absolutely no regrets in having had done. Both of mine came out great and are to this day some 12 and 7 (different elbows) years later. I'm not going to pull the wool over your eyes, the recovery was no piece of cake but looking back I'm glad I had it done. You know you need to look into it about the time you can no longer lift a gallon of milk.
 
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21whiskey

Banned
I've had a number of joint related surgeries (including replacement) in my life. Tennis elbow/arm surgeries are the two surgeries that I have absolutely no regrets in having done. Both of mine came out great and are to this day some 10 and 7 (different elbows) years later. I'm not going to pull the wool over your eyes, the recovery was no piece of cake but looking back I'm glad I had it done.

holy crap

try an ice pack, physician administered vitamin injections, steroid injections, hope this helps
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
I've had a number of joint related surgeries (including replacement, knees) in my life. Most of the time you look back on these type of surgeries and realize you've lost something. You're just not as good as you were before the problem began. Tennis elbow/arm surgeries are the two surgeries that I have absolutely no regrets in having had done. Both of mine came out great and are to this day some 12 and 7 (different elbows) years later. I'm not going to pull the wool over your eyes, the recovery was no piece of cake but looking back I'm glad I had it done. You know you need to look into it about the time you can no longer lift a gallon of milk.

Thanks so much for your reply! How long did (complete) recovery take, and was it more or less the same both times?

Also, since you're an AZB member, I'm assuming you're a pool player - would you say the surgery has in some way affected sensitivity/feel, or is it all back to normal?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/search.php?searchid=13560123
this link should give you lots of info and personal experience
i hope you tried rest ,physical therapy, antiinflammatories etc even platelet enriched plasma injection if thats still being advocated
been awhile since i looked into tennis elbow
before resorting to surgery
of course the orthopedic doctor knows more than i do
good luck
pm me if you have to log in
 

TomInFaribo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought I had tennis elbow.

Saw the Dr. and he gave me a band to wear. Did nothing. Then went to see a good Chiropractor and he fixed it in 5 min. A guy I know same problem told him what I did and it worked for him too.
I believe it was an front shoulder tendon was out of place.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
... it seems silly that I should be afraid of a little operation on my elbow, but I have a distinctly uneasy feeling about this, and my gut instinct has rarely betrayed me.

Why stop listening to it now?

I had tennis elbow in my right arm for two years after overdoing it practicing distance fly casting. I had to totally quit that, but it lingered for a couple years, then gradually resolved. At no time did I consider going under the knife. The body usually heals itself if rested sufficiently. The hard part is staying away from that which we love to do.

Good luck if you go ahead with it. I had surgery on my right eye to restore my vision after a shop accident. I just found out that the lens they implanted has begun to shift rearward into my eye and there may be nothing they can do for it. They never tell you all the possible unfavorable outcomes that can occur, but believe me, they sure know about them all.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Why stop listening to it now?

I had tennis elbow in my right arm for two years after overdoing it practicing distance fly casting. I had to totally quit that, but it lingered for a couple years, then gradually resolved. At no time did I consider going under the knife. The body usually heals itself if rested sufficiently. The hard part is staying away from that which we love to do.

Good luck if you go ahead with it. I had surgery on my right eye to restore my vision after a shop accident. I just found out that the lens they implanted has begun to shift rearward into my eye and there may be nothing they can do for it. They never tell you all the possible unfavorable outcomes that can occur, but believe me, they sure know about them all.

Sorry to hear!

As to the tennis elbow, I've heard that before, that it sort of "burns out" within approximately two years. I've had mine since age eleven, on and off, but it only got really bad sometime last year, maybe a little over one year ago. And yes, I realize surgeons make their income cutting people open…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

GearHead_1

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Thanks so much for your reply! How long did (complete) recovery take, and was it more or less the same both times?

Also, since you're an AZB member, I'm assuming you're a pool player - would you say the surgery has in some way affected sensitivity/feel, or is it all back to normal?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Mine had gotten to the point that it had a mass of scar tissue as well as some what was described as "congealed substance" under my tendons. They did a release and reroute in both arms. I was hesitant to have it done and went through the steroid injection thing. I still do that every 4 months in both shoulders. The surgeons said that mine had to progressed to the point that it would not have healed by itself. Most micro-tears will heel by themselves if you can afford to let them. Continued use will only make the situation worse. My recovery time was probably about 3 months in both cases. Both times my pool game had ground to a halt. At first I just let my opponent break but then it got to the point I couldn't play. Like I said, the gallon of milk test let me know it was time.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Mine had gotten to the point that it had a mass of scar tissue as well as some what was described as "congealed substance" under my tendons. They did a release and reroute in both arms. I was hesitant to have it done and went through the steroid injection thing. I still do that every 4 months in both shoulders. The surgeons said that mine had to progressed to the point that it would not have healed by itself. Most micro-tears will heel by themselves if you can afford to let them. Continued use will only make the situation worse. My recovery time was probably about 3 months in both cases. Both times my pool game had ground to a halt. At first I just let my opponent break but then it got to the point I couldn't play. Like I said, the gallon of milk test let me know it was time.

Thanks again for your input!

You're addressing an aspect that's confused me for some time now: it doesn't seem as if going easy on it, or taking a break from all that may make it worse (guessing: swimming and playing pool - not really sure what's causing the "overstrain"), improves matters - on the contrary.

While I do have noticeable loss of strength in my right arm and hand (and I am a righty), what's bothering me more than pain is that I let things slip through my fingers - drinks, car keys, the chalk playing pool, whatever… Endlessly dropping stuff, it seems.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have the same issues, quit playing tennis 1 1/2 years ago to let everything heal - wrist (carpal tunnel type symptoms made worse from playing tennis), tennis elbow, old shoulder injury from college days.

Wrist is basically healed, elbow is better but I can still sometimes grab something the wrong way or pick up something too heavy and feel it, so even after 18 months of nothing that would strain it I feel like if I got back into tennis it would come roaring back. I just dealt with it and wore one of those stupid braces. Getting old sucks, and trying to play like my old 5.0 self probably didn't help either... :)

Shoulder is now the big thing. I had a minor tear in the labrum from what doctor told me, it actually got better the more I played tennis, to the point that I was serving full speed at the end of my 1 year of playing again. I guess I rotated all the scar tissue out of the way or something.

Then I quit for a few months, and without thinking threw a baseball at a dunk tank at a fair, and now it's more jacked up then ever, to the point where I probably couldn't even play tennis again without rehab or surgery. Doesn't really affect my pool game except for jump shots or masses which are seldom used, so I'm very hesitant to get it fixed. But someday when dropping things and pain become more commonplace then I'll have no alternative...

Good luck with everything!
Scott
 

shayne87

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone undergone this type of surgery? How did it go? Anything I need to know or make sure of?

Please feel free to PM me if you prefer not to discuss this in public.

Going to hospital tomorrow for what I understand is going to be ambulatory examination - for the time being.

Given my medical record, it seems silly that I should be afraid of a little operation on my elbow, but I have a distinctly uneasy feeling about this, and my gut instinct has rarely betrayed me.

It might help to hear from others who have experienced the same, as far as I know, the condition per se isn't exactly rare?

Thanks in advance!



Greetings from Switzerland, David.


_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti



Hi David,
I had both elbows done, at different times. I suffered much pain for a few years prior to surgery. Both surgeries were a success and I play 3 cushion for many hours at time pain free. I personaly would not hesitate to get the surgery. I took a couple of months to get over the surgery. Good luck
 

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I work as an orthopedic physical therapist and see this injury often. You really have t said yet what you have tried so far the help it. Surgery, while generally very successful for this, is certainly not the first treatment option. Of the people I see with this, I would say that no more than 5-10% end up needing surgery. I would be happy to answer any questions and give you some info on this, but I first need to know what you have already tried.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
I work as an orthopedic physical therapist and see this injury often. You really have t said yet what you have tried so far the help it. Surgery, while generally very successful for this, is certainly not the first treatment option. Of the people I see with this, I would say that no more than 5-10% end up needing surgery. I would be happy to answer any questions and give you some info on this, but I first need to know what you have already tried.

Thanks so much everyone for your input!

@mantis99: been doing the various stretching exercises (including hanging onto my neighbour's carpet rod) I found on the internet for a few weeks, about a minute each time, maybe 10 to 20 times a day. Went to a medical massage specialist for months (this included deep massage, as well as supraspinatus trigger point therapy), until he sent me back to the rheumatist, who did the usual cortisone/pain killer injections, maybe four or five times, until he in turn sent me to hospital for the ambulatory examination, because they'd only help against the pain for two to three weeks, after which it seemed worse than before. Have also been going to acupuncture twice a week for the last three weeks (combination of needles and laser acupuncture), which I'll continue to do, even though thus far, it doesn't help noticeably. The surgeon's now sending me to a neurologist because he's concerned that the classic tennis elbow may not be my only problem - he felt the other nerve that goes into the pinky and ring finger is numb (no pain there whatsoever, merely cold and numb pinky and ring finger). He also checked hand/finger strength, coming to the conclusion that despite the fact that I'm a righty, I can't hold onto things with e.g. my index finger and thumb like I can with my left hand.

Again, several people told me today that tennis arm "burns out" within 2 years doing nothing, at least theirs did. I've read that doing research on the internet, too. Is this true?

Seems like I've had mine on and off since I was a teenager when I quit playing tennis after a mere couple of seasons (my knees were more of a problem back then), but that it got really bad about a year ago playing a full week at the European Championships in Luxembourg, possibly already before, as I practiced more intensely than usual.

Makes me wonder if I should just wait, that is, postpone surgery?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The surgeon's now sending me to a neurologist because he's concerned that the classic tennis elbow may not be my only problem - he felt the other nerve that goes into the pinky and ring finger is numb (no pain there whatsoever, merely cold and numb pinky and ring finger). He also checked hand/finger strength, coming to the conclusion that despite the fact that I'm a righty, I can't hold onto things with e.g. my index finger and thumb like I can with my left hand.

Again, several people told me today that tennis arm "burns out" within 2 years doing nothing, at least theirs did. I've read that doing research on the internet, too. Is this true?

Makes me wonder if I should just wait...

Sounds like the ulnar nerve to me.

David, I'm glad to hear the surgeon wants to investigate your problem more thoroughly. I went through that with my carpal tunnel. The physiologist said he'd never seen such bad nerve conduction and I had to get it taken care of immediately. The surgeon said that he wasn't doubting the tests were accurate, but he just didn't see my symptoms present as a classic case of CTS. That was over 20 years ago. The problem hasn't gone away, but it hasn't progress like it was predicted to, either.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks so much everyone for your input!

@mantis99: been doing the various stretching exercises (including hanging onto my neighbour's carpet rod) I found on the internet for a few weeks, about a minute each time, maybe 10 to 20 times a day. Went to a medical massage specialist for months (this included deep massage, as well as supraspinatus trigger point therapy), until he sent me back to the rheumatist, who did the usual cortisone/pain killer injections, maybe four or five times, until he in turn sent me to hospital for the ambulatory examination, because they'd only help against the pain for two to three weeks, after which it seemed worse than before. Have also been going to acupuncture twice a week for the last three weeks (combination of needles and laser acupuncture), which I'll continue to do, even though thus far, it doesn't help noticeably. The surgeon's now sending me to a neurologist because he's concerned that the classic tennis elbow may not be my only problem - he felt the other nerve that goes into the pinky and ring finger is numb (no pain there whatsoever, merely cold and numb pinky and ring finger). He also checked hand/finger strength, coming to the conclusion that despite the fact that I'm a righty, I can't hold onto things with e.g. my index finger and thumb like I can with my left hand.

Again, several people told me today that tennis arm "burns out" within 2 years doing nothing, at least theirs did. I've read that doing research on the internet, too. Is this true?

Seems like I've had mine on and off since I was a teenager when I quit playing tennis after a mere couple of seasons (my knees were more of a problem back then), but that it got really bad about a year ago playing a full week at the European Championships in Luxembourg, possibly already before, as I practiced more intensely than usual.

Makes me wonder if I should just wait, that is, postpone surgery?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

have you had an mri of your neck???
tennis elbow might affect your thumb.indesx or middle finger but pinky problems means ulnar nerve which is on the inside of your fore arm with the palm face up
so problems in the neck could cause problems on the inside anf outside of your arm
but as you go lower in the arm the problems shouls be one side or the other
unless you have 2 problems
jmho
icbw
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
have you had an mri of your neck???
tennis elbow might affect your thumb.indesx or middle finger but pinky problems means ulnar nerve which is on the inside of your fore arm with the palm face up
so problems in the neck could cause problems on the inside anf outside of your arm
but as you go lower in the arm the problems shouls be one side or the other
unless you have 2 problems
jmho
icbw

Well, I was the victim of two rear-end collisions suffering whiplash injuries (a no-no among surgeons since health insurance say it doesn't exist), and that was after I'd broken a vertebra in the back (lucky I'm not paraplegic). But I've had MRIs at the time, and was sent to the most noted neurologist in our area, who felt something was the matter with me (my sense of balance), but that it wasn't neurological.

And yes, the surgeon feels there may be two problems (= the ulnar nerve as well) instead of just one (= classic tennis elbow). I mentioned the whiplash injuries, but he didn't seem very interested in it…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks so much everyone for your input!

@mantis99: been doing the various stretching exercises (including hanging onto my neighbour's carpet rod) I found on the internet for a few weeks, about a minute each time, maybe 10 to 20 times a day. Went to a medical massage specialist for months (this included deep massage, as well as supraspinatus trigger point therapy), until he sent me back to the rheumatist, who did the usual cortisone/pain killer injections, maybe four or five times, until he in turn sent me to hospital for the ambulatory examination, because they'd only help against the pain for two to three weeks, after which it seemed worse than before. Have also been going to acupuncture twice a week for the last three weeks (combination of needles and laser acupuncture), which I'll continue to do, even though thus far, it doesn't help noticeably. The surgeon's now sending me to a neurologist because he's concerned that the classic tennis elbow may not be my only problem - he felt the other nerve that goes into the pinky and ring finger is numb (no pain there whatsoever, merely cold and numb pinky and ring finger). He also checked hand/finger strength, coming to the conclusion that despite the fact that I'm a righty, I can't hold onto things with e.g. my index finger and thumb like I can with my left hand.

Again, several people told me today that tennis arm "burns out" within 2 years doing nothing, at least theirs did. I've read that doing research on the internet, too. Is this true?

Seems like I've had mine on and off since I was a teenager when I quit playing tennis after a mere couple of seasons (my knees were more of a problem back then), but that it got really bad about a year ago playing a full week at the European Championships in Luxembourg, possibly already before, as I practiced more intensely than usual.

Makes me wonder if I should just wait, that is, postpone surgery?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.


„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

David,
It sounds like you have done a lot of the normal treatments without any real success. Let me try to go ahead and answer some of your questions. First, I can't say that I would agree that tennis elbow burns itself out after two years. The only way I can see this being true is if the person with it stops what they are doing due to the pain, and it slowly heals over time. That usually won't work in chronic cases, because it usually needs more specific treatments.

I do definitely see cases where the cervical spine (neck) is the primary cause of this injury as impingement of the nerve root to the wrist extensor muscles can cause weakness and chronic overuse symptoms. If you have undergone all the normal treatments without success, and see any signs of cervical problem, then I would definitely clear the neck as the cause before having surgery if you haven't already. Having numbness into the last 2 digits is indicative of nerve compression or injury of the ulnar nerve. That does not usually coincide with tennis elbow (but not impossible) as the ulnar nerve runs on the opposite side of the elbow in the cubital tunnel, and may suggest the possibility of cervical involvement, but that would have to be specifically looked at. A lack of gripping ability at the index finger and thumb would coorelate with the median nerve, but both could get compressed in the neck. You don't have definitive enough symptoms to say it is your neck, but it sounds like it is worth checking out.

Supraspinatus trigger point therapy seems unlikely to help. While shoulder weakness does have a coorelation to tennis elbow that is thought to be due to overcompensation at the wrist for the inability to lift the shoulder, it would seem less likely to be the cause of such a chronic case.

Whenever I treat tennis elbow (lateral epicondylitis), I always look at neck movement and clear the neck first before moving onto things specific to tennis elbow. I also check for normal shoulder strength to see if overcompensation is a possible cause or contributing factor. If I narrow it down to normal tennis elbow, I start with stretching of the muscles of wrist extension, anti-inflammatory modalities such as ice, ultrasound, or iontophoresis (pushes anti-inflamm meds into skin using a small electric current), deep tissue massage of the wrist extensors, and look for any bony mal-alignement between the radius and ulna, or lack of normal movement between them or the humerus and correct as needed using manual techniques. I also strengthen as tolerated. Without restoring normal strength, it will never tolerate normal activity. Research is clear that eccentric strengthening is the best for the treatment of tennis elbow or most tendinitis based injuries for that matter. Initially I avoid all concentric exercise as that seems to aggravate the injury. I would also advise trying a counterforce brace that decreases the tension that the extnesors place on the lateral epicondyle. It works very well for some, but not all.

If none of that works, I re-check the neck and other areas. If nothing benefits the person, surgery has been a very viable option in the past with good results and a fairly quick recovery with most returning to normal activity within 12 weeks, maybe a little longer if there is a lot weakness and damage from a very chronic case. Some people are simply genetically predisopsed to the problem given the anatomy of their elbow, and nothing else will help it. That being said, I would say that less than 5% of all tennis elbow cases I have seen have ever needed surgery. Given that, I would exhaust all options before doing it.

I can't really say much more without actually seeing the elbow myself. That is a fairly basic view of how I would approach it, but If you have more questions about it that I have not answered, please feel free to ask.
_________________
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
David,
It sounds like you have done a lot of the normal treatments without any real success. Let me try to go ahead and answer some of your questions. First, I can't say that I would agree that tennis elbow burns itself out after two years. The only way I can see this being true is if the person with it stops what they are doing due to the pain, and it slowly heals over time. That usually won't work in chronic cases, because it usually needs more specific treatments.

I do definitely see cases where the cervical spine (neck) is the primary cause of this injury as impingement of the nerve root to the wrist extensor muscles can cause weakness and chronic overuse symptoms. If you have undergone all the normal treatments without success, and see any signs of cervical problem, then I would definitely clear the neck as the cause before having surgery if you haven't already. Having numbness into the last 2 digits is indicative of nerve compression or injury of the ulnar nerve. That does not usually coincide with tennis elbow (but not impossible) as the ulnar nerve runs on the opposite side of the elbow in the cubital tunnel, and may suggest the possibility of cervical involvement, but that would have to be specifically looked at. A lack of gripping ability at the index finger and thumb would coorelate with the median nerve, but both could get compressed in the neck. You don't have definitive enough symptoms to say it is your neck, but it sounds like it is worth checking out.

Supraspinatus trigger point therapy seems unlikely to help. While shoulder weakness does have a coorelation to tennis elbow that is thought to be due to overcompensation at the wrist for the inability to lift the shoulder, it would seem less likely to be the cause of such a chronic case.

Whenever I treat tennis elbow (lateral epicondylitis), I always look at neck movement and clear the neck first before moving onto things specific to tennis elbow. I also check for normal shoulder strength to see if overcompensation is a possible cause or contributing factor. If I narrow it down to normal tennis elbow, I start with stretching of the muscles of wrist extension, anti-inflammatory modalities such as ice, ultrasound, or iontophoresis (pushes anti-inflamm meds into skin using a small electric current), deep tissue massage of the wrist extensors, and look for any bony mal-alignement between the radius and ulna, or lack of normal movement between them or the humerus and correct as needed using manual techniques. I also strengthen as tolerated. Without restoring normal strength, it will never tolerate normal activity. Research is clear that eccentric strengthening is the best for the treatment of tennis elbow or most tendinitis based injuries for that matter. Initially I avoid all concentric exercise as that seems to aggravate the injury. I would also advise trying a counterforce brace that decreases the tension that the extnesors place on the lateral epicondyle. It works very well for some, but not all.

If none of that works, I re-check the neck and other areas. If nothing benefits the person, surgery has been a very viable option in the past with good results and a fairly quick recovery with most returning to normal activity within 12 weeks, maybe a little longer if there is a lot weakness and damage from a very chronic case. Some people are simply genetically predisopsed to the problem given the anatomy of their elbow, and nothing else will help it. That being said, I would say that less than 5% of all tennis elbow cases I have seen have ever needed surgery. Given that, I would exhaust all options before doing it.

I can't really say much more without actually seeing the elbow myself. That is a fairly basic view of how I would approach it, but If you have more questions about it that I have not answered, please feel free to ask.
_________________

Wow! Thanks so much for your detailed reply!

Like I said earlier, I've been the victim of two rear-end collisions (car accidents), one time standing in a traffic jam, the other time waiting in front of a red light. My neck gave me trouble for years, and has been checked by several therapists, and treated perhaps most successfully by an atlas therapist. But I'll definitely inquire some more.

I did get deep tissue massage, and wonder if it didn't make everything worse. At the very least it was painful and only seemed to help initially. Ironically, I felt the therapist really knew what he was doing. He sent me back to my rheumatist after a while because he felt the recurring/permanent muscle stiffness/cramp was pointing to a chronic problem, and that what he did only helped temporarily.

As to the ulnar nerve numbness, I seem to remember this (along with alternatively cold, oversensitive or itchy fingers) started much earlier, possibly already as a teenager. I was under the impression that the surgeon is sending me to a neurologist first because I may be suffering from a double crush syndrome (tennis arm partly due to carpal tunnel syndrome?).

I'll definitely want a second (and third…) opinion, as it seems obvious to me that a surgeon, however reputable, would recommend surgery. Trying to figure out whom to go to next. At some point I'll have to make a decision, want to be sure it's the right one…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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