Lessons ! Just get some lessons !!
- Thread starter Yoda4962
- Start date
Simply, because they are lazy. They know that if they take lessons, they then will have to do deliberate practice. Not just shoot balls around having fun figuring that it will eventually make them good. Much easier to just knock lessons and stay the same level than to take lessons and have to actually do some real work at the game.
People like to use the word they in order to give some appearance of relevance to their statement. They this, they that and so on.
Taking lessons is not needed to improve in pool. It's a myth. It's something that those in the market of selling lessons want you to believe. Those that took lessons wants you to believe this so that don't feel bad for taking lesson when not needed.
Practice is what improves your game nothing more or nothing less. No lesson, if you feel you needed them, will improve your game without practice.
And this idea if you don't take lessons you don't want to improve and lazy is absurd. I've never seen so many people that know what eveyone is about,what motivates, what works for them.
Of course I practice what I preach. I'm back on my 4-5 hour practice days again after a summer slow from putting in over 1850 hours at the table last year. This is how I've improved and no lessons would ever have given the info and experience that putting in those hours have done.
I say unless you put in more time than me than y'all are lazy,uncommitted to improving your game.
Taking lessons is not needed to improve in pool. It's a myth. It's something that those in the market of selling lessons want you to believe. Those that took lessons wants you to believe this so that don't feel bad for taking lesson when not needed.
Practice is what improves your game nothing more or nothing less. No lesson, if you feel you needed them, will improve your game without practice.
And this idea if you don't take lessons you don't want to improve and lazy is absurd. I've never seen so many people that know what eveyone is about,what motivates, what works for them.
Of course I practice what I preach. I'm back on my 4-5 hour practice days again after a summer slow from putting in over 1850 hours at the table last year. This is how I've improved and no lessons would ever have given the info and experience that putting in those hours have done.
I say unless you put in more time than me than y'all are lazy,uncommitted to improving your game.
And, there, Yoda, you have your answer! Some people think lessons mean you don't have to practice! They don't know what they don't know, and think no one else can possibly teach them something they can't eventually figure out on their own.
And here is a lttle message from the real world...
Some people can't afford lessons.
Some people don't have qualified instructors near enough to them.
Some people don't have a table t home to.practice on, and practicing 3-5 hours a day at a pool room isn't cheap, either.
Some people have work and family obligations that contributes to the responses above this one.
Some people do their best by getting as much information as they can, when they can, and trying to utilize that in the limited time they have at the table.
And some people here on AZB like to paint with a very broad brush, assuming that just because a person doesnt get lessons and spend much of every day practicing then that person has no real desire to get better. At whatever rate he/she can manage.
Carry on. After all, I obviously don't want to get better at this game, berate me and those like me some more.
Some people can't afford lessons.
Some people don't have qualified instructors near enough to them.
Some people don't have a table t home to.practice on, and practicing 3-5 hours a day at a pool room isn't cheap, either.
Some people have work and family obligations that contributes to the responses above this one.
Some people do their best by getting as much information as they can, when they can, and trying to utilize that in the limited time they have at the table.
And some people here on AZB like to paint with a very broad brush, assuming that just because a person doesnt get lessons and spend much of every day practicing then that person has no real desire to get better. At whatever rate he/she can manage.
Carry on. After all, I obviously don't want to get better at this game, berate me and those like me some more.
duckie:
I will agree that taking lessons is not needed to improve in pool; but how quickly, and to what degree, can they improve? It's a proven fact, many times over, that players improve quicker with lessons.
I will also agree that laziness is not the main reason most people don't take lessons. I think the main reasons are that they are stubborn, or cheap, or both. And since you, personally, put in so many hours of practice, it's obvious that you are not lazy.
Roger
I guess my post did come across as "a broad brush", but I didn't mean it to. I was thinking along the lines of those able to get lessons and put in the time but figured lessons would be a waste of money. Not of those that for whatever reason are not able to get lessons or put in the time. Sorry if it offended anyone.
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With that revelation, I guess every grade school through professional sports team will fire their coaches and just send the teams out on the field to practice.
duckie, you're certainly welcome to your opinion. Mine is substantially different than your own. I've had 3 lessons with Scott Lee and I couldn't be happier. There is no way I'd have made the progress I have in such a short period of time without Scott's lessons. No doubt, practice alone can make someone better. However, I believe practicing the right things utilizing the correct fundamentals will allow someone to improve at a faster rate and achieve a higher level of performance. YMMV.
justadub:
You made some good points. I didn't mean to sound so harsh in my reply to duckie when I said, "the main reasons most people don't take lessons is because they are stubborn, or cheap, or both." Those may be the "main" reasons (IMO), but they certainly are not the only reasons, as you have kindly pointed out.
"Lessons" don't always come from "qualified" instructors, and they are not always paid for. Any advice, guidance, instruction, etc., obtained from someone with more knowledge than yourself, can be considered the same as taking lessons. Ideally, it would be preferable if the "student" could be assured that the information they receive from their "instructor" is good and sound, but that is not always possible. It has been the goal of the BCA Instructor Program (now the PBIA) to ensure that students get good value for their money by identifying instructors who are truly qualified to teach at their certified levels. But then, I agree with you that many people may not be able to afford, or have access to, a certified instructor. In my own little corner of the world, I do not allow that to be a factor; I charge on an ability to pay basis, which sometimes means no charge at all.
So, I hope you understand my comments to duckie. If he prefers to blaze his trail all on his own, that's his business. I, for one, have never been able to do things that way.
Roger
To be honest...I know people that paid good money for lessons and after all these years, they shoot no better than the other local yokels.
It just doesn't show.
It really doesn't make any sense?
I travel and teach and get to see the huge results almost immediately, in fact four or 5 times I offered to take half the action afterwards with someone they play pretty even with normally.
They all won afterwards but only one let me have half the action.
I don't know the reason why but for some reason we think that we are already doing what we can do. Just need more practice.
What's really funny is when I find some players that play $1000 sets or races but the just must not think that it will help them either.
If they only knew?
How do you know if you don't know it unless you see what you will learn.
i think most people are afraid they will waste their money.
I travel and teach and get to see the huge results almost immediately, in fact four or 5 times I offered to take half the action afterwards with someone they play pretty even with normally.
They all won afterwards but only one let me have half the action.
I don't know the reason why but for some reason we think that we are already doing what we can do. Just need more practice.
What's really funny is when I find some players that play $1000 sets or races but the just must not think that it will help them either.
If they only knew?
How do you know if you don't know it unless you see what you will learn.
i think most people are afraid they will waste their money.
That really doesn't surprise me at all. You would be surprised at how many take lessons looking for that magic pill that they can buy. Lessons will do nothing for ones game if they don't change what one was doing to start with. Many do not bother to put in the time to change to the new way, and just go on playing the same way they were before the lesson. Hence, no change in their ability. Then they blame the lessons as inadequate, instead of changing to what the lessons taught them.
If what you are doing isn't working, and you can't figure it out yourself, you need lessons. But, after the lessons, you then have to be willing to change what you were doing before the lessons. No change, no difference.
*Because* people don't practice and implement what they are taught. It's as easy as that.
I can't count the number of times someone has asked me for advice and I have given it to them and... three weeks later I see them and they are doing exactly what they did before. I'm not talking esoteric modifications to their play -- I'm talking very basic things that any decent pool player would point out like a more level cue, a solid bridge, maybe just not raising up as they're stroking.
Part of that is: people will not pay attention to free advice; people will not invest in practice; people (even those who have paid for lessons) will not make the commitment to change.
And sometimes, to be honest, instructors give out bad advice. I have seen instructors tear apart a player's game -- knowing full well these were once a week league players -- and treat them like they were going to go into training 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and completely rebuild their game. That dan't work so good either -- the instructor has to tailor things to the player for a good fit. Not all do that, instead giving out a standard lesson plan to one and all.
And don't get me started on the "instructors" with pivoting, three-angle aiming systems and all kinds of other cockamamy
Lou Figueroa
*Because* people don't practice and implement what they are taught. It's as easy as that.
I can't count the number of times someone has asked me for advice and I have given it to them and... three weeks later I see them and they are doing exactly what they did before. I'm not talking esoteric modifications to their play -- I'm talking very basic things that any decent pool player would point out like a more level cue, a solid bridge, maybe just not raising up as they're stroking.
Part of that is: people will not pay attention to free advice; people will not invest in practice; people (even those who have paid for lessons) will not make the commitment to change.
And sometimes, to be honest, instructors give out bad advice. I have seen instructors tear apart a player's game -- knowing full well these were once a week league players -- and treat them like they were going to go into training 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and completely rebuild their game. That dan't work so good either -- the instructor has to tailor things to the player for a good fit. Not all do that, instead giving out a standard lesson plan to one and all.
And don't get me started on the "instructors" with pivoting, three-angle aiming systems and all kinds of other cockamamy
Lou Figueroa
Oh Know.....you trouble maker...lol :grin:
*Because* people don't practice and implement what they are taught. It's as easy as that.
I can't count the number of times someone has asked me for advice and I have given it to them and... three weeks later I see them and they are doing exactly what they did before. I'm not talking esoteric modifications to their play -- I'm talking very basic things that any decent pool player would point out like a more level cue, a solid bridge, maybe just not raising up as they're stroking.
Part of that is: people will not pay attention to free advice; people will not invest in practice; people (even those who have paid for lessons) will not make the commitment to change.
And sometimes, to be honest, instructors give out bad advice. I have seen instructors tear apart a player's game -- knowing full well these were once a week league players -- and treat them like they were going to go into training 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and completely rebuild their game. That dan't work so good either -- the instructor has to tailor things to the player for a good fit. Not all do that, instead giving out a standard lesson plan to one and all.
And don't get me started on the "instructors" with pivoting, three-angle aiming systems and all kinds of other cockamamy
Lou Figueroa
I agree, Lou. Let's don't get you started on something that you know very little about.
Stan Shuffett
Way back when, some guy saw some lawn game, and wanted to bring it indoors. So, he instructed himself on how to go about it. He then instructed others about the game he "invented". So, obviously, the instructor came first! Not quite the answer you were looking for, was it?? :grin:
*Because* people don't practice and implement what they are taught. It's as easy as that.
I can't count the number of times someone has asked me for advice and I have given it to them and... three weeks later I see them and they are doing exactly what they did before. I'm not talking esoteric modifications to their play -- I'm talking very basic things that any decent pool player would point out like a more level cue, a solid bridge, maybe just not raising up as they're stroking.
Part of that is: people will not pay attention to free advice; people will not invest in practice; people (even those who have paid for lessons) will not make the commitment to change.
And sometimes, to be honest, instructors give out bad advice. I have seen instructors tear apart a player's game -- knowing full well these were once a week league players -- and treat them like they were going to go into training 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and completely rebuild their game. That dan't work so good either -- the instructor has to tailor things to the player for a good fit. Not all do that, instead giving out a standard lesson plan to one and all.
And don't get me started on the "instructors" with pivoting, three-angle aiming systems and all kinds of other cockamamy
Lou Figueroa
I can agree with everything you said except for the last sentence, Lou.
I've gone on record as saying that CTE/Pro One is all about marketing. I will stand behind that statement, but I should have been more explicit by saying that the CONTROVERSY over CTE/Pro One is due to its marketing here on AZB.
"CTE" and "Pro One" are labels that are meant to describe specific ways of aiming. Some people do not understand, or use, these systems, and therefore disagree with their right to be promoted (marketed) here at all. These people have argued vehemently against the system, but I think they've just been resentful because the system won't simply go away.
However, Stan has developed a product that has been shown to help many players improve their games. And in my opinion, he has priced his DVD fairly. I have no idea what he charges for private lessons, but that's none of my business, anyway. What matters is that those who have taken them have reported success and satisfaction.
And even though I've had bitter exchanges with Spidey, Neil, JB, and Joey, I do not believe for a moment that they, or Stan, have ever been deceitful towards anyone. Some of them have been brutally honest, but honest nonetheless. All-in-all, I haven't seen anything "cockamamy" in their descriptions of CTE/Pro One.
I sincerely hope that this post does not open old wounds, but instead will serve as a start towards new understanding and tolerance. Also, I like, and greatly respect you, Lou. Won't you please join me in trying to bring peace to the aiming threads?
Roger