Here's what's been working for me on cut shots

B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I've been playing for a little less than a year and gone through a number of aiming theories. All of them have been from youtube videos, reading, etc; no private lessons yet. I started with ghost ball, pivot systems and a few others.

Last week I made up my own I'll call the Equal Overlap system. I'm sure it's not original and other folks have used something similar if not exactly the same.

Basically I begin by determining the contact point by standing on a line-of-sight from the OB to the pocket. While keeping my eye on that point, I walk to the sight line between the CB and the OB (roughly the shot line). Since the balls are perfect spheres their intersection (contact point) will occur exactly in the middle of the overlap between the CB and the OB. So I determine where the contact point is between the center and edge of the OB, and then aim the CB at the OB with an equal overlap. I think of the CB as being the mirror image of the OB; it's just on the "hitting side" rather than the "being hit" side.

I don't know if I've explained it well; my apologies if I haven't.

Anyway, I'd like to explore it further and thought you guys might know of similar methods and point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
 
You explained it well. I gravitated to the same 'system' naturally many many years ago. I have since heard it called the 'fractional overlap system'. Once you hit 'enough balls' you will no longer need to go look at the OB pocket line. You'll be able to 'see' it from behind the cue ball except for maybe some very thin cuts.

Congratulations on figuring it out for yourself. It is a fairly simple, fairly accurate system. The one thing to keep in mind is collision induced throw that 'pushes' the OB away from the direction of the hit of the CB.

Best Wishes,
 
bdorman said:
Is that why I've heard people recommend using a touch of outside english on almost every shot?
Click to expand...

Well, yes. Again I naturally gravitated to doing that before I even really 'understood' why 'it helped' (I was 13 yrs. old). The correct amount of outside spin can offset the collision induce throw. The outside spin wants to throw the ball in the opposite direction of the collision. If they offset the OB rolls along the intended line to the pocket.

You can aim the shot on the CB side of the pocket & let the collision throw take it toward the center of the pocket with no CB spin. That can work fine unless you mis by under cutting the ball & the collision throw might take it out of the pocket.

I found that when I wanted to use spin for position, it worker better, for me, to aim to the side of the pocket away from the CB & spin it enough to overtake the collision throw & spin it into the pocket as it also puts helping pocket spin on the OB.

Keep in mind that am talking about how I learned to play & have been playing at a fairly high level for 46 yrs. However, I am strongly considering & will make a committed effort to change the way I play to that of CJ Wiley's 'touch of inside' style of playing. I would suggest that you read up on it here in the forum & make an informed decision as to how you wish to proceed on your journey.

Best Wishes,
 
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bdorman said:
Is [throw] why I've heard people recommend using a touch of outside english on almost every shot?
Click to expand...
Yes, but don't.

Sidespin makes aiming more complicated, so you want to use it only when really needed for position on the next shot (which will often require inside spin rather than outside anyway).

With practice and repetition you'll learn to (consciously or unconsciously) adjust your aim slightly for throw - and adjusting your aim is more consistent and reliable than spinning the cue ball.

pj
chgo
 
This is commonly called the "double distance" or "double overlap" method. Here's an illustration of it from another thread titled "Basic Aiming Methods Illustrated" (<- link):

DblDistance.jpg

The two parts of the diagram show two ways to use the method:

1. For cuts thicker than half ball, double the distance from the object ball's center and aim the cue ball's center at it.

2. For cuts thinner than half ball, double the distance from the object ball's outer edge and aim the cue ball's inner edge at it.

pj
chgo
 
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Mikjary said:
Is this the same thing? http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=275147

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

That, your image, does not represent what I was 'talking' about. There is no doubling of any distance in what I do. I wish I had the ability to draw a pic, but alas I do not.

So... place an OB on the spot. Place the cue ball in the ghost ball location cutting the OB into the right corner pocket. Now walk anywhere up table on the cue ball side & observe that if you draw a virtual line through the contact point that whatever portion of the OB is to the left of that line there is an equal & opposite portion of the CB on the right side of that line. There are equal fractions of both balls on opposite sides of the virtual line through the contact point. Sort of a mirror image. A fractional overlap.

It is similiar to what CJ does, but he is using, I believe, 9 dividing lines on the cue ball to intersect with with either the center or outside edge of the OB. Basically 18 different aiming lines.

The fractional 'mirror' overlap has an 'infinite' number of aiming lines, but they are not defined. It is merely a visual conception. A picture that yields a result. When aiming, it really is not like aiming for the ghost ball because the 'focus' is on the fractional overlap line. I guess it is sort of parallel line aiming. You are aiming the line on the CB to meet the line on the OB. Maybe that is why 'parallel' english has worked so well for me.

I hope I explained it well enough to convey it properly.

Best Regards,
 
Mikjary said:
Is this the same thing? http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=275147

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,
As best I can make out Double The Distance is another (but seemingly more complicated) way of aligning with the contact point. There are more steps involved...and more steps usually means more chances of error.

I just measure the distance from the contact point to the edge of the OB, then line up my CB shot so that the contact point on the CB (Yes, the CB has a contact point too) is the same distance to the edge of the CB.

I'll try to draw a picture of it.
 
Let's see if the image posts.

For me, the Equal Distance method is easier than Ghost Ball because it involves two "real" spots, one on the OB and one on the CB. Ghost Ball requires that I estimate a spot on the cloth that IMHO is pretty imaginary.

equaldistanceaimingdiag.jpg
 
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bdorman said:
Let's see if the image posts.

For me, the Equal Distance method is easier than Ghost Ball because it involves two "real" spots, one on the OB and one on the CB. Ghost Ball requires that I estimate a spot on the cloth that IMHO is pretty imaginary.

equaldistanceaimingdiag.jpg
Click to expand...

I believe this is Jimmy Reid's exact equal opposite method.
 
I did not get it from Mr. Reid, but it has worked very well for me for the last 46 years. And...it's fairly simple. I'd certainly recommend it to anyone to give it a try.

Regards,
 
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bdorman said:
Let's see if the image posts.

For me, the Equal Distance method is easier than Ghost Ball because it involves two "real" spots, one on the OB and one on the CB. Ghost Ball requires that I estimate a spot on the cloth that IMHO is pretty imaginary.
Click to expand...
You can combine the two methods. I use the ghost ball center as an inexact target to initially align my stick and stance with but use another method to actually aim. Having someplace "visualizable" to point the CB center at, even if inexact, is very helpful for getting set up accurately.

I also continue to visualize the ghost ball center as an aiming cross-check, but that's a secondary use for it.

pj
chgo
 
Discovered another advantage

Another advantage I've found in using equal distance (or equal overlap; same thing, just a different word) is that it helps me think about shot-speed better than the other system(s) I've tried.

In the ten days I've been using it, I've noticed that the amount of overlap tells me how much to adjust my speed. ((Since I'm a beginner I don't (yet) have an intuitive feel for speed adjustment. Since day one I figured out that a full ball hit drains more energy from the CB than a half-ball hit, but I always had to think about aim and speed as two distinct and separate steps. Of course, they are distinct and separate, but this method makes the transition from one to the other easier for me.))

It's like equal overlap fits into my pre-shot routine better; maybe because there's less to think about...no imaginaries, no pivots or shifts, etc. One or more fewer steps allows my mind to move from table analysis to aim to spin to speed.

Or maybe I'm just happier pocketing more balls.....
 
bdorman,

Sounds like you are well on way. 'Listening' to you reminds me of myself many many years ago when I was 'hungry'. Listening to you makes me 'feel' 'young' again & it makes me want to play even more than normal.

Thanks & Best Wishes & Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
bdorman,

Sounds like you are well on way. 'Listening' to you reminds me of myself many many years ago when I was 'hungry'. Listening to you makes me 'feel' 'young' again & it makes me want to play even more than normal.

Thanks & Best Wishes & Regards,
Click to expand...

I'm glad it makes you feel that way. Only problem is: I'm 60 years old and been playing pool for 11 months. But I'm almost glad I discovered it "late"; otherwise I don't think I'd have had a life!

A wife of 35 years is glad to have a husband with a hobby. Newlyweds aren't as accommodating. :grin:

The toughest part is overcoming physical limitations of crossed eyes and an arthritic neck.
 
bdorman,

I'm 59 & started helping a retired gentleman after Hurricane Katrina. He never played pool before. He played in a league 3 yrs. ago as a 3. He quit. If I had to rank him now, I'd say he is shooting at a 5 maybe a 6. He still has to learn more on the mental side.

The point is, It's never too late.

Best Regards & Best Wishes,
 
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