Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) for measuring table "toughness"

[dr_dave]

FYI, a few days ago, I took measurements on an old Gold Crown (probably GC II) at MatchUps in Fort Collins. It plays fairly tight for how big the pockets look, IMO. Here's the data:

dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.06 (old Gold Crown II)

and the updated list is below.

Anybody know how to tell the difference between different Gold Crown models (I, II, III)? I couldn't find the info on the table.

Thanks,
Dave


Data reported by AZB users in table difficulty factor (TDF) order, based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):

name -- TSF -- PSF -- PAF -- PLF -- TDF
tough 10' table -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.33 (fictitious example)
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.15 -- 2 1/2": 1.15 -- 1.24 (snooker table poorly converted to be be a pool table)
dr_dave example "B" -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.24 (fictitious example)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.14 (Bonus Ball table)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.12 ("money table" Diamond at Pool Sharks in Vegas)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.10
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.11
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.09
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.09
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.08 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.08 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.06 (old Gold Crown II)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.03
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02
dzcues Gandy Big G -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.95 -- 15/16":1.08 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.01
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.02 -- 1.00 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 ("standard")
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/4:1.00 -- 1.00
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.98 ("Cobrasized" Gold Crown III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (typical Gold Crown)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/16":1.05 -- 1/4":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.95 (Gold Crown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.93
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 1":1.06 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.93 ("loose" Gold Crown)
MSchaffer -- 9":1.00 -- 5 1/10":0.90 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.92
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 ("loose" Gold Crown III)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 (Brunswick Centurion)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 13/16":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/8":0.95 -- 0.90
SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.87
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.86 (Connelly)
dr_dave example "A" -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.82 (fictitious example)
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.82
SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77
dzcues Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.76
dr_dave Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.76 (typical Valley/Dynamo "bar box")

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks Dave, but you changed the specs on my friend's GC, not my table. It doesn't matter. My table still equates 1.10.

Sorry about the confusion. I've added a better table descriptor to the list (see below). Could you and others post (or re-post) your table model info so I won't have to search for it? I would like to add a table descriptor for each entry.

Thanks,
Dave


Data reported by AZB users in table difficulty factor (TDF) order, based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):

name -- TSF -- PSF -- PAF -- PLF -- TDF
tough 10' table -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.33 (fictitious example)
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.15 -- 2 1/2": 1.15 -- 1.24 (snooker table poorly converted to be be a pool table)
dr_dave example "B" -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.24 (fictitious example)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.14 (Bonus Ball table)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.12 ("money table" Diamond at Pool Sharks in Vegas)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.11
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.10
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.09
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.09
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.08 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.08 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.06 (old Gold Crown II)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.03
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02
dzcues Gandy Big G -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.95 -- 15/16":1.08 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.01
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.02 -- 1.00 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 ("standard")
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/4:1.00 -- 1.00
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.98 ("Cobrasized" Gold Crown III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (typical Gold Crown)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/16":1.05 -- 1/4":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.95 (rexus31's friend's Gold Crown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.93
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 1":1.06 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.93 ("loose" Gold Crown)
MSchaffer -- 9":1.00 -- 5 1/10":0.90 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.92
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 ("loose" Gold Crown III)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 (Brunswick Centurion)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 13/16":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/8":0.95 -- 0.90
SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.87
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.86 (Connelly)
dr_dave example "A" -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.82 (fictitious example)
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.82
SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77
dzcues Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.76
dr_dave Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.76 (typical Valley/Dynamo "bar box")

 

[rexus31]

Here you go:

1 x 1.0 x 1.05 x .95 = 1.10

9' Table
4 1/16" Pocket
7/8" difference in Pocket Mouth vs Throat
3/4" Shelf

 

[mamics]

mamics pockets measured in Autocad.

Dan

Thanx Dan - nice ! :-D

I am surprised at my margin of error though from autocad compared to my measurements by hand.

I measured 3/16 smaller pocket mouth. (this was tricky to get an accurate 'point' of the cushion I must admit)
I measured 3/8 smaller on the throat (my pocket moulds protude around my throat corner point - so that didnt help - but 3/8" is ALOT of error - hmm...)
I measured 1/8" longer shelf - the cushion point position error probably contributed here also.

I think I will try some post it notes / tape / set squares etc. to attempt a more accurate hand measurement just for interests sake.

Cheers.

 

[dr_dave]

Here you go:

1 x 1.0 x 1.05 x .95 = 1.10

9' Table
4 1/16" Pocket
7/8" difference in Pocket Mouth vs Throat
3/4" Shelf

Thanks, but what I was hoping you and others would post (or re-post) is the table model info so I can add a table descriptor at the end of each entry (see the examples in parentheses at the end of some of the lines in the list below).

Thanks,
Dave


Data reported by AZB users in table difficulty factor (TDF) order, based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):

name -- TSF -- PSF -- PAF -- PLF -- TDF
tough 10' table -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.33 (fictitious example)
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.15 -- 2 1/2": 1.15 -- 1.24 (snooker table poorly converted to be be a pool table)
dr_dave example "B" -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.24 (fictitious example)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.14 (Bonus Ball table)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.12 ("money table" Diamond at Pool Sharks in Vegas)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.11
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.10
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.09
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.09
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.08 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.08 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.06 (old Gold Crown II)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.03
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02
dzcues Gandy Big G -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.95 -- 15/16":1.08 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.01
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.02 -- 1.00 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 (WPA spec "standard")
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/4:1.00 -- 1.00
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.98 ("Cobrasized" Gold Crown III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (typical Gold Crown)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/16":1.05 -- 1/4":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.95 (rexus31's friend's Gold Crown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.93
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 1":1.06 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.93 ("loose" Gold Crown)
MSchaffer -- 9":1.00 -- 5 1/10":0.90 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.92
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 ("loose" Gold Crown III)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 (Brunswick Centurion)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 13/16":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/8":0.95 -- 0.90
SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.87
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.86 (Connelly)
dr_dave example "A" -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.82 (fictitious example)
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.82
SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77
dzcues Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.76
dr_dave Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.76 (typical Valley/Dynamo "bar box")

 

[mamics]

I would like to add a table descriptor for each entry.

I've got a Uylin stamp on my cushion rubbers (now covered in rail cloth) - no other branding anywhere except a generic 'premier slate' or something like that printed on the side of my slates (also now covered in cloth).

I think my table might best be described as a 'Chinese cheapie ?"

Cheers.

 

[dr_dave]

I've got a Uylin stamp on my cushion rubbers (now covered in rail cloth) - no other branding anywhere except a generic 'premier slate' or something like that printed on the side of my slates (also now covered in cloth).

I think my table might best be described as a 'Chinese cheapie ?"

Cheers.

OK. Your table descriptor has been added:

no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions

Thanks,
Dave


Data reported by AZB users in table difficulty factor (TDF) order, based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):

name -- TSF -- PSF -- PAF -- PLF -- TDF
tough 10' table -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.33 (fictitious example)
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.15 -- 2 1/2": 1.15 -- 1.24 (snooker table poorly converted to be be a pool table)
dr_dave example "B" -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.24 (fictitious example)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.20 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.14 (Bonus Ball table)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.12 ("money table" Diamond at Pool Sharks in Vegas)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.11
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.10
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.09
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.09
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.08 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.08 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.06 (old Gold Crown II)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.95 -- 1 1/8":1.14 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.03
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02
dzcues Gandy Big G -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.95 -- 15/16":1.08 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.01
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 7/8":1.02 -- 1.00 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 (WPA spec "standard")
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/4:1.00 -- 1.00
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.98 ("Cobrasized" Gold Crown III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (typical Gold Crown)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/16":1.05 -- 1/4":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.95 (rexus31's friend's Gold Crown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.10 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.93
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 1":1.06 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.93 ("loose" Gold Crown)
MSchaffer -- 9":1.00 -- 5 1/10":0.90 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.92
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 ("loose" Gold Crown III)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.90 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.90 (Brunswick Centurion)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 13/16":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/8":0.95 -- 0.90 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.87
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.86 (Connelly)
dr_dave example "A" -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.95 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.82 (fictitious example)
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.82
SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77
dzcues Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.76
dr_dave Valley "bar box" -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.94 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.76 (typical Valley/Dynamo "bar box")

 

[oldschool1478]

I guess you could call mine..
Updated Red Badge Diamond Pro


Dan

 

[SloMoHolic]

Table descriptions added in red:

name -- TSF -- PSF -- PAF -- PLF -- TDF

SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02

The above table is a 2005 Diamond Professional that came directly from Diamond with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails.

SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90

The above table is an old Brunswick Medalist.

SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77

The above table is an old Valley coin-op bar table.

Thanks again, Dr. Dave!

-Blake

 

[BryanB]

Please post the measurements so I can include your table on the list.

Thanks,
Dave

Here's mine:
9ft 1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets

PSF = 1 = 4 1/2"
PAF = 1.01 = 3/4"
PLF = .98 = 1.25"
TSF = 1.00 = 9ft

TDF = .99889 average

Here you go. Think I did it right

 

[rexus31]

Thanks, but what I was hoping you and others would post (or re-post) is the table model info so I can add a table descriptor at the end of each entry (see the examples in parentheses at the end of some of the lines in the list below).

Thanks,
Dave

I wish I knew the model name to give you. My table is a mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King. No one on here has been able to identify the model.

 

[mamics]

I am surprised at my margin of error though from autocad compared to my measurements by hand.
I think I will try some post it notes / tape / set squares etc. to attempt a more accurate hand measurement just for interests sake.

Well, I cant really explain it - but I did the most accurate measurements I possibly know how tonite using straight edges, some card stock, dividers, tape, extension lines etc. - the biggest difference to the autocad data was the throat - bad photo / parralax error from my photo perhaps ? (these photos show a few things that look not quite square, straight etc. but its just the i-phone lens / parallax error - I spent alot of time lining things up - its crazy they look so far out in the photos)

Mouth 4 11/16 (close to autocad)
Throat 3 13/16 (way diff. to autocad ?)
Shelf 1 3/16 (close to autocad)
I'll re-calculate the TDF on this data 2moro.

I noticed my rail rubber bends slightly when close to the pocket point (rail cloth tension fail) and my pocket facings are not dead flat & true - I corrected for this when lining up / taping on the card for rail edge & facing edge - maybe the line of best fit from autocad on these issues contributed to the differences also ?

The last photo shows the dividers set to 4 3/16" (autocad throat) - miles to big ?

Thanx again for ur efforts Dan - but something went amiss somehow it seems ?

Cheers.

 

[dzcues]

an attempt using AutoCAD

First, let me say that I can do basic drawing in AC but not much more.

I was unable to paste a clear version of my overhead photo into AC R14 but it was enough to work with. I plodded through & came up with the following revised numbers for a new Diamond table with League cut pockets. I must say that having definitive lines to measure sure takes the guesswork out of this.

To explain my process: I pasted the photo into AC and drew the lines & arcs to suit. It was oversize as shown by the size of the ball's diameter, so I scaled the resulting geometry by .6999 and used that to check my sizes.

The revised figures of 9':1, 4 7/8":.95, 11/16":1.04, 1 15/16":1.03 = TDF:1.02

The pics I worked with are shown. I could not figure out how to remove the grid lines from the photo nor how to paste a clear picture into AC. I also couldn't scale both the pic & the drawing together. Any advice appreciated.

 

[hossy]

Hi Dave,

Do you have a TDF document in mm notation.

In order to be used to more and more people, you should prepare it.

Thanks,

 

[dr_dave]

I guess you could call mine..
Updated Red Badge Diamond Pro

Done.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Table descriptions added in red:

SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02

The above table is a 2005 Diamond Professional that came directly from Diamond with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails.

SloMoHolic league table -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.98 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.90

The above table is an old Brunswick Medalist.

SloMoHolic 6' Valley "bar box" -- 6':0.85 -- 4.5":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77

The above table is an old Valley coin-op bar table.


Thanks again, Dr. Dave!

-Blake

Thanks. I've added the info.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Here you go. Think I did it right

Here's mine:
9ft 1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets

PSF = 1 = 4 1/2"
PAF = 1.01 = 3/4"
PLF = .98 = 1.25"
TSF = 1.00 = 9ft

TDF = .99889 average

Thank you for posting.

This is what I get:

BryanB -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)

Please re-check based on the info in the first post or in the TDF document and let me know whether or not you agree.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I wish I knew the model name to give you. My table is a mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King. No one on here has been able to identify the model.

Thanks for the info. I've added it to the list.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Well, I cant really explain it - but I did the most accurate measurements I possibly know how tonite using straight edges, some card stock, dividers, tape, extension lines etc. - the biggest difference to the autocad data was the throat - bad photo / parralax error from my photo perhaps ? (these photos show a few things that look not quite square, straight etc. but its just the i-phone lens / parallax error - I spent alot of time lining things up - its crazy they look so far out in the photos)

Mouth 4 11/16 (close to autocad)
Throat 3 13/16 (way diff. to autocad ?)
Shelf 1 3/16 (close to autocad)
I'll re-calculate the TDF on this data 2moro.

I noticed my rail rubber bends slightly when close to the pocket point (rail cloth tension fail) and my pocket facings are not dead flat & true - I corrected for this when lining up / taping on the card for rail edge & facing edge - maybe the line of best fit from autocad on these issues contributed to the differences also ?

The last photo shows the dividers set to 4 3/16" (autocad throat) - miles to big ?

Thanx again for ur efforts Dan - but something went amiss somehow it seems ?

Cheers.

Here's what I get:

mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 11/16":0.98 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)

I've updated your entry in the list. Please check me when you get a chance.

I trust your careful measurements more than the Autocad photo-based approach, which can have many issues if the camera position and angle isn't perfect. Even then, there can still be perspective-distortion issues.

Thanks again for posting,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

First, let me say that I can do basic drawing in AC but not much more.

I was unable to paste a clear version of my overhead photo into AC R14 but it was enough to work with. I plodded through & came up with the following revised numbers for a new Diamond table with League cut pockets. I must say that having definitive lines to measure sure takes the guesswork out of this.

To explain my process: I pasted the photo into AC and drew the lines & arcs to suit. It was oversize as shown by the size of the ball's diameter, so I scaled the resulting geometry by .6999 and used that to check my sizes.

The revised figures of 9':1, 4 7/8":.95, 11/16":1.04, 1 15/16":1.03 = TDF:1.02

The pics I worked with are shown. I could not figure out how to remove the grid lines from the photo nor how to paste a clear picture into AC. I also couldn't scale both the pic & the drawing together. Any advice appreciated.

Again, I trust careful hand measurements more than the photograph approach, which has several potential issues, but I've updated your data. Here's what I got:

dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.95 -- 11/16":1.02 -- 1 15/16":1.03 -- 1.01 (Gandy Big G)

Please re-check your numbers to be sure.

Thanks,
Dave