10ball question

[ctran]

Hi,

I recently moved from 9ball to 10ball, I have some question about the rule:

- if 10 is the ONLY ball pocketed on the break, of course it is spotted, but will the breaker continues playing or turn switches?
- if the object ball is called and legally pocketed, but the 10 is pocketed at the same shot, will the 10 be re-spotted or it is instant win?
- fluke safety: if 1 player calls the shot but fails to pocket the ball, yet no foul is committed, and he flukes a safety, does the other player has the right to give the shot back?
- say we play for fun, or some small amount, with no referee, 1 player calls the ball and pocket, that is a clear shot, but he misses, the ball travel some rails and falls in the same called pocket, will it count as a legal pocketing?

thanks for your replies.

Cuong.

 

[DAVE_M]

Hi,

I recently moved from 9ball to 10ball, I have some question about the rule:

- if 10 is the ONLY ball pocketed on the break, of course it is spotted, but will the breaker continues playing or turn switches?
Yes.
- if the object ball is called and legally pocketed, but the 10 is pocketed at the same shot, will the 10 be re-spotted or it is instant win?
The 10 ball will be spotted, before the next shot; If the rules are set in a manner where slop is not allowed.
- fluke safety: if 1 player calls the shot but fails to pocket the ball, yet no foul is committed, and he flukes a safety, does the other player has the right to give the shot back?
Depends again on the rule set; some tournaments allow the pass back rule, others do not.
- say we play for fun, or some small amount, with no referee, 1 player calls the ball and pocket, that is a clear shot, but he misses, the ball travel some rails and falls in the same called pocket, will it count as a legal pocketing?
Depends on the agreed rule set; if it is just call pocket, then the ball can travel anywhere as long as it is pocketed where called.

thanks for your replies.

Cuong.

Answers in red.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Answers in red.

The only thing which may be different is about the 10 ball counting on the break. In tournaments I play in if it is made in either of the bottom two corners it is spotted. If it goes in one of the other four pockets then that is a win.

 

[DAVE_M]

The only thing which may be different is about the 10 ball counting on the break. In tournaments I play in if it is made in either of the bottom two corners it is spotted. If it goes in one of the other four pockets then that is a win.

That is debatable given the rule set used. I've seen many where it didn't count at all, and many where it counted no matter what pocket.

 

[ctran]

Answers in red.

Thanks for your reply. so for the 1st question, you answered "yes", does that mean the breaker continue to shoot, even though he did not pocket any other ball on the break?

The only thing which may be different is about the 10 ball counting on the break. In tournaments I play in if it is made in either of the bottom two corners it is spotted. If it goes in one of the other four pockets then that is a win.

Thanks for your reply, can you please explain why, is it more difficult to pocket the 10 on the break to 4 higher pockets? I think it should be consistent, any pocket should be treated as same.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Thanks for your reply. so for the 1st question, you answered "yes", does that mean the breaker continue to shoot, even though he did not pocket any other ball on the break?


Thanks for your reply, can you please explain why, is it more difficult to pocket the 10 on the break to 4 higher pockets? I think it should be consistent, any pocket should be treated as same.

To your first part yes the breaker continues to shoot. He did make a ball on the break. Spotting the ten doesn't change that. Then he can roll out if he does not have an open shot.

You're welcome. It is hard to send the 10 ball up table. Usually if the balls in the row behind the ten are not frozen it will drift toward one of the bottom two corners. The same thing happens with a 9 ball rack. The tournaments I play in are rack your own so if it did count there are some people who would try to use the above to their advantage. With a good rack it is mostly luck as another ball has to kick it in somewhere. Most of the time it doesn't move much at all.

 

[Cornerman]

Answers in red.

I think your post (a very good one) highlights that 10-ball is still broken as far as rules and even strategy goes.

Watching the Steinway Ginky Memorial 10-ball, they played the "no fluke safety" rules. I'm not sure whether I like, love or hate these rules, but one thing for sure: they don't match up with the current WPA World Standardized Rules.

Freddie <~~~ plays by his own set of rulez

 

[fastone371]

fluke safety: if 1 player calls the shot but fails to pocket the ball, yet no foul is committed, and he flukes a safety, does the other player has the right to give the shot back?
Depends again on the rule set; some tournaments allow the pass back rule, others do not.

That cant be correct is it? If there is no foul you cant pass the shot back to shooter just because you dont like what he left you can you?

 

[frankncali]

fluke safety: if 1 player calls the shot but fails to pocket the ball, yet no foul is committed, and he flukes a safety, does the other player has the right to give the shot back?
Depends again on the rule set; some tournaments allow the pass back rule, others do not.

That cant be correct is it? If there is no foul you cant pass the shot back to shooter just because you dont like what he left you can you?

In Call Shot Call Safety that is correct...

If you call a shot and miss it the incoming player can make you shoot again no matter what.

I think in most events if you call safe and make a legal hit but pocket a ball then the incoming player has the option.

I know a while back the WPA did not play the call safe this way but I thought it was going to change.

 

[fastone371]

In Call Shot Call Safety that is correct...

If you call a shot and miss it the incoming player can make you shoot again no matter what.

I think in most events if you call safe and make a legal hit but pocket a ball then the incoming player has the option.

I know a while back the WPA did not play the call safe this way but I thought it was going to change.

Holy moly, I did not know this, thank you for the enlightenment:grin:

 

[Dopc]

With the rules all over the place these days, at times when I approach the table, I almost want to ask "I am supposed to strike the cue-ball correct?" Just to avoid any disputes.

Not an original statement here, but there certainly needs to be established standardized rules for the games we play. I understand there are already rules in place, but they differ drastically.

Ok then, the world adapts APA rule-set...Oh god, please nooooooooooooooooo............ (my opinion only)

Ok then, BCA....getting better here, but not perfect...... (my opinion only).

Ok then (insert one of the many others organizations and their rule-set).

So on and so on............

The big question is who decides what organization will make these standardized rules and which organizations rule-set will they determine to be the default.. My head is spinning as I'm sure everyone else's is as well.

Or, we can collectively create the "The Gamblers code of ethics and rules for pool". Sounds good, but there is a fatal flaw here as well. Some schmuck will want to be president, charge $75 to access the rules and sell membership for use and then pocket all the money. Just like we see in the legit industry as well. (not all, but more than not...Again my opinions here)

I guess I'm starting to understand as I age, it's not the game that's flawed, It's the human element.

Dopc.

 

[Cornerman]

In Call Shot Call Safety that is correct...

If you call a shot and miss it the incoming player can make you shoot again no matter what.

This is not correct. The WPA World Standardized Rules are Call Shot/Call Safety and I don't see a reference to passing back on a missed called shot other than if a ball is wrongfully pocketed.

The "Pass Back" option is as far as I know only in Grady Rules and Steinway Billiard Rules among a few other spatterings.

Freddie

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I have Gloria Allred on speed dial. Left her a message since Johnny Cochran ain't answering. BRB.

 

[frankncali]

This is not correct. The WPA World Standardized Rules are Call Shot/Call Safety and I don't see a reference to passing back on a missed called shot other than if a ball is wrongfully pocketed.

The "Pass Back" option is as far as I know only in Grady Rules and Steinway Billiard Rules among a few other spatterings.

Freddie

Wasn't really quoting any certain set of rules that is just what I have seen. This weekend I heard people calling the rules I mentioned Predator rules.

The way I mentioned I don't like because it takes away two way shots. However it does make it where there is less luck involved.

I play poker at various places including casinos and it baffles me how there is not a consistent rule book for all of them... They have the TDA rules and IMO they should be used everywhere.

 

[ctran]

I dont think I like the idea of call safety applied at Steinway. I saw that match Shane vs. Earl and Shane missed a 2ball then cue ball got behind the 9, no clear shot >> Earl passed it back.

now that can be a bit of controversy now, imagine cue ball was not completely behind the 9, Earl was able to make contact with the 2, but it was difficult to execute a safety, can he give it back, like giving back any shot he did not like? if yes it is not nice. if no, he can only give back a fluke safety when the cue ball was hid completely, no clear shot, then we must have a referee to check the shots all the time, seems to me it's a bit like snooker now, when some foul then fluke are called "free ball". Pool should not be like that.

another question: if the player did not call "safety", then pocketed an uncalled ball, the other player has the right to give it back. but if he call "safety", then pocketed a ball, no foul committed, would the other play have the right to give it back?