Paying the players

S

strumnken

passionate pool player
There is a streamer who is working on a program to pay all the players who appear on his stream. I think it's a wonderful idea, but I have a problem with it. His focus is to put more money into the game of pool, and I applaud him for that. I think, however, that the idea he has is being brought into operation a little too soon. I feel that the focus right now should be to increase viewership. In my opinion, this person, and all people who are serious about streaming pool, should do all they can to build a large, consistent and enthusiastic viewer base. They should do all they can to build up the numbers and the fan base before they start charging to watch streams. I'm afraid that with the small numbers of reliable viewers, you will be chasing people away from the stream.

What do you all think?
 
strumnken said:
There is a streamer who is working on a program to pay all the players who appear on his stream. I think it's a wonderful idea, but I have a problem with it. His focus is to put more money into the game of pool, and I applaud him for that. I think, however, that the idea he has is being brought into operation a little too soon. I feel that the focus right now should be to increase viewership. In my opinion, this person, and all people who are serious about streaming pool, should do all they can to build a large, consistent and enthusiastic viewer base. They should do all they can to build up the numbers and the fan base before they start charging to watch streams. I'm afraid that with the small numbers of reliable viewers, you will be chasing people away from the stream.

What do you all think?
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I think it's funny when a post like this about a streamer who is banned from here crops up, its from a brand new account. hmmmmm.

If it's worth paying for, fine. Floods of bad streams for free only hurts the entire industry. People start thinking that's how they all are.

I have purchase streams from big truck, accustats and tar. They are all good quality and I would reccomend them. Many of the streams out there seem to simply be a window into a pool hall or event without much interaction for the viewers. I like to know more than just watching silhouettes roll balls around.

rk
 
strumnken said:
There is a streamer who is working on a program to pay all the players who appear on his stream. I think it's a wonderful idea, but I have a problem with it. His focus is to put more money into the game of pool, and I applaud him for that. I think, however, that the idea he has is being brought into operation a little too soon. I feel that the focus right now should be to increase viewership. In my opinion, this person, and all people who are serious about streaming pool, should do all they can to build a large, consistent and enthusiastic viewer base. They should do all they can to build up the numbers and the fan base before they start charging to watch streams. I'm afraid that with the small numbers of reliable viewers, you will be chasing people away from the stream.

What do you all think?
Click to expand...
I think you are right, most will leave if they start charging is what I think...
 
Charging $7.99 a month, which equates to a quarter a day. Plus the $7.99 is not only for the stream at hand, it is for the entire billiard on demand to watch all previous broadcasts in their entirety. Also in several flavors of bit-rates and resolutions to suit your internet connection, in most cases.

We then create a source of billiard videos of the whole spectrum. Not just necessarily the professionals that rarely miss, but some great challenge and gambling match-ups as well from top amateurs and semi-professionals.

There are also some great matches or not so great matches to watch in the amateur circuit from TAP and BCAPL. Also many matches from the new NAPA league which caters to any skilled player on the planet. Alex Olinger, Dee Adkins, Jason Kirkwood, Julio Delpozo, Andy Murray, and others.

OSPN is stepping up the game and putting the money with our mouth is. Hats off to TvMike to make yet another sacrifice to be able to put in perspective the revenue billiard players miss out on on a daily basis.

We hope, down the road when this becomes a success story, and be able to tout unsolicited advertising from OUTSIDE the industry, instead of beating up time and time again our beloved billiard sponsors. We'll be adding thousands, if not hundreds of thousands into the hands of the billiard players, who to be quite frank, deserve it the most.

So when you goto YouTube and ustream and rub your hands together because you can watch the stream for free. Just think in the back of your mind how robbed the players are of the cash they deserve, because the 'wash your hand tactics' of other streaming guru's are doing just that. Then they could care less about the value of the video after the fact and just throw it up on YouTube. How disturbing and disrespectful.

Enjoy more streams from OSPN. We're setting a new standard and raising the bar for the entire industry.

Have a great weekend!
 
OK, first of all... I AM NOT bashing TVMike... or any other streamer out there. Secondly, this is only MY opinion. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

If I decide to go to a tournament and it happens to have a streamer covering the event, I certainly do not feel that I am entitled, or should be entitled to be paid for appearing on the stream. It is an amateur event, I am an amateur player and there is nothing about my game, or the games of the vast majority of players entering tournaments, that entitles them to be paid, or is even a game that people should be forced to pay in order to watch. That being said, I also believe that there should be more money in the industry. I believe that those individuals who have dedicated untold hours into perfecting their game to the point that they can compete at the highest of levels should have an easier time of making a living through the game they love.

TVMike has shown a lot of dedication to his stream. He's certainly put in a lot of time and effort... and a lot of his own money. No one is saying that he doesn't deserve to recoup his investment. All I'm saying is if you can only boast one to two hundred viewers of your stream, shouldn't your primary goal be to do anything you can to increase your viewership before you start charging? We all like to talk about how pool needs to be brought to the mainstream and that large corporate sponsors should get involved... is this really the way to do it? Is closing out streaming to only paying customers really the right way right now? Because let's face it... the only people who would be willing to pay to watch a bunch of amateurs play pool are pool fanatics like me. Well, guess what, there aren't enough people like me to be able to support the industry.
 
Rateking said:
I think it's funny when a post like this about a streamer who is banned from here crops up, its from a brand new account. hmmmmm.

rk
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If his account is considered brand new at over a year old. Then yours, by default, is still fairly new as well. Does this mean we should think differently of you as well?

And if his is still brand new that means I'm practically still in the womb.

Edit : I personally think they should keep putting the money in their pockets until they get all of the streaming things that they need. One of the major things that I think is a problem is Ustream. Every stream I have watched on that website is horrid.
 
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strumnken said:
OK, first of all... I AM NOT bashing TVMike... or any other streamer out there. Secondly, this is only MY opinion. I don't speak for anyone but myself.
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Thank you! TvMike puts his pants on like everyone else does. He works hard, works affordably, is a leader, and is a company man. Despite his personality and personal views, which is his business, He's an asset to the live billiard streaming community, and always will be.

strumnken said:
If I decide to go to a tournament and it happens to have a streamer covering the event, I certainly do not feel that I am entitled, or should be entitled to be paid for appearing on the stream. It is an amateur event, I am an amateur player and there is nothing about my game, or the games of the vast majority of players entering tournaments, that entitles them to be paid, or is even a game that people should be forced to pay in order to watch. That being said, I also believe that there should be more money in the industry. I believe that those individuals who have dedicated untold hours into perfecting their game to the point that they can compete at the highest of levels should have an easier time of making a living through the game they love.
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I kinda disagree a slightly here. We need to establish relationships with the players and irregardless of their playing ability. If it's an amature event? So what. It can be televised. There is much much much more to billiards than watching someone never miss, or rarely miss. There is always something to learn watching anyone shoot. Or maybe the public would lend a hand to help the individual.

Plus those lesser skilled players will want to see themselves televised, or put in that situation. It draws out competitiveness, and sets a stage much more real.


strumnken said:
TVMike has shown a lot of dedication to his stream. He's certainly put in a lot of time and effort... and a lot of his own money. No one is saying that he doesn't deserve to recoup his investment. All I'm saying is if you can only boast one to two hundred viewers of your stream, shouldn't your primary goal be to do anything you can to increase your viewership before you start charging? We all like to talk about how pool needs to be brought to the mainstream and that large corporate sponsors should get involved... is this really the way to do it? Is closing out streaming to only paying customers really the right way right now? Because let's face it... the only people who would be willing to pay to watch a bunch of amateurs play pool are pool fanatics like me. Well, guess what, there aren't enough people like me to be able to support the industry.
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Our streams are still 99% free. We just now intercept viewers and ask them to create a Login to access it. We then can create a nice mailing list to keep our viewers informed. We do however, blackout certain shows at certain times to boost subscriptions. This is a fair and affordable practice for all involved. We also provide clickable links backed up by proof to our sponsors, which they appreciate very much. We also do not allow unsolicited advertising drowning out the ads that mean the most to what is being viewed, and that is our industry sponsors.

A VERY LARGE part of our goal is to protect the content behind preventative means, which the players appreciate. Many players know that their talent is generating cash flow when streamed on OSPN. That cash will go back into another players pocket, instead of someone else's streaming pipe dream promoted by someone else's pipe dream, etc. etc.

Thanks for your positive foresight on our goals and accomplishments.

The OSPN Team
 
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n0risc said:
We just now intercept viewers and ask them to create a Login to access it.
The OSPN Team
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I think this is a really bad idea. It will only hurt your viewership more than it will help. Take it from Twitch.tv, who i believe is the industry leader in live streaming. There are kids making up to $2000 dollars a day by streaming ( revenue from the ads). If they required people to login just to view their streams they would hurt themselves immensely.

And personally for me. I don't register for any website that I don't fully trust. Therefore if I can't login I can't watch your stream. This is just my two cents and something that i believe will make a difference for the streaming community in general.
 
infest said:
I think this is a really bad idea. It will only hurt your viewership more than it will help. Take it from Twitch.tv, who i believe is the industry leader in live streaming. There are kids making up to $2000 dollars a day by streaming ( revenue from the ads). If they required people to login just to view their streams they would hurt themselves immensely.

And personally for me. I don't register for any website that I don't fully trust. Therefore if I can't login I can't watch your stream. This is just my two cents and something that i believe will make a difference for the streaming community in general.
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You are 100% correct. But since we have 100% control of the webpage, we can create the monetization through the website and not necessarily through the actual video window. That is our major difference. twitch.tv & justin.tv do an awesome job! Unfortunately,. The more broad they make their platform the less specific they can take care of a specific industries needs and wants. That is the gripe. Also, again.. Why would we sell our content to them in mere trade of service, when we have our own "twitch" for billiards. That is the 100% gripe is "we", "us", "players" (the billiards industry), don't see a dime of revenue from the unsolicited ads. Trust me. The revenue they generate from "our content" is 20 fold in the trade of the service. Heck it may even be 30 fold.. That is a MAJOR loss..
 
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I really thank all of you for your sincere comments. I live in coastal Washington state... well off the beaten path of any large pool community. Over the last couple of years I've been involved in a few discussions about the state of pool in the states. One comment I've heard over and over is that streaming is the future of pool. I'm not here to argue about whether that's true or not... I personally LOVE watching a good stream. I analyze their shots, their strokes, the decisions they make. But then, as stated earlier, I am a pool fanatic. To me, the game is beautiful. However, from the perspective of my friends, family and associates, to people in general, streaming pool lacks the kind of impact necessary to draw in the large number of people who aren't fanatical about the game. And, it's that large number of people you need in order to draw in the LARGE corporate sponsors. I love what Inside Pool, Tar, OSPN, Rail2Rail and others do. It's fantastic. But, to people in general... not so exciting or interesting. I, personally, am waiting for a streamer who has a strong vision and the talent to produce a show with the necessary impact. When that happens... and I know that eventually it will... then I will say that streaming is indeed the future of pool.
 
strumnken said:
I really thank all of you for your sincere comments. I live in coastal Washington state... well off the beaten path of any large pool community. Over the last couple of years I've been involved in a few discussions about the state of pool in the states. One comment I've heard over and over is that streaming is the future of pool. I'm not here to argue about whether that's true or not... I personally LOVE watching a good stream. I analyze their shots, their strokes, the decisions they make. But then, as stated earlier, I am a pool fanatic. To me, the game is beautiful. However, from the perspective of my friends, family and associates, to people in general, streaming pool lacks the kind of impact necessary to draw in the large number of people who aren't fanatical about the game. And, it's that large number of people you need in order to draw in the LARGE corporate sponsors. I love what Inside Pool, Tar, OSPN, Rail2Rail and others do. It's fantastic. But, to people in general... not so exciting or interesting. I, personally, am waiting for a streamer who has a strong vision and the talent to produce a show with the necessary impact. When that happens... and I know that eventually it will... then I will say that streaming is indeed the future of pool.
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Great post!! Yes. Pool lacks an angle to create entertainment "hooks" to appeal to the masses. Or those who are essentially un-interested in the "sport", however, there are millions that are interested in the "art". The art of billiards presents itself in a vast array of circumstances. One of which is physics & math.

Poker capitalized on a very easy angle to generate an entertainment factor, and obviously that was math calculation on the fly and spying at the hole cards. This gave the viewers an opportunity to make educated guesses on the next action at the table based on a set of probabilities. Ingenious.

Can this be brought into billiards? Most certainly. You'll just have to wait and see how that will be accomplished at a later time. Unfortunately OSPN is swamped with managing a network privately owned for the sole purpose to elude the backwards revenue that the free streaming giants present in return to deliver billiard content.
 
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You're right... poker became successful because of the hole-card cam. Without that innovation poker would never have become a huge television commodity. Without knowing the hole cards we could never have reveled in the audacity, courage, the stupidity or the plain outrageous luck of the players. The hole-card cam supplied the drama necessary for us to watch... and learn. However, with pool there is no possibility of a hole card type camera. So, maybe instead of discussing the benefits of streaming we ought to have a conversation about how to add drama, or a hook, to pool. How is that hook supplied? Through personal conflicts... rivalries, through conquering insurmountable odds, through extreme examples of skill, through intense consequences of failure, trials and tribulations. Let's face it... one professional running a rack of ten ball looks pretty much the same as any other professional running a rack. Do we need to change the game? Develop a whole new game? Change the player interactions? C'mon people! Let's have some ideas and make something happen.
 
Free VS PPV

Sponsorship is the name of the game-either you have it or you don't. I don't know of any PPV sites that stream professional competition in golf, tennis, bowling etc. The really important thing in professional billiard streaming is that you get what you pay for. I have had issues with both PPV and free streaming in that regard but overall my average approval rating for both is currently better than 75%. With that said, I agree that promoting viewership by discounting negativity and highlighting the positive will do much more towards improving the visual quality, the available quantity, and the professional content of billiard streams.:thumbup:
 
strumnken I think you are on to something here ! we need more drama in pool ! that's y the mosconi cup sells out ! we as human being love drama ! hell look at all the top ratings from opra to the soaps . people love drama ! that's y we watch Earl to see what he's *****ing about and yes he's a great player also , but I think we really watch him to see what he does next ! I don't think paying the players is a bad idea I think it great , but I don't think charging to watch it is the fix all either ! it's entertainment live should be charged I have no problem with that . my problem with ppv is u only get to watch it once !
 
r u kidding me u can't say *****ing ! what happened to freedom of speech ? well I guess that's one more of our so called freedoms we don't have !
 
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