Who ya got: JB Cases or Lou?

[JB Cases]

That wasn't "wrong again" -- you just agreed with me (and ChicagoRJ, for that matter). This is not a software application where it runs on a device -- a computer -- that follows instructions precisely, based on choices that the human operator makes.

And we're getting a little pedantic here with the analogies. We're talking about how an inexact machine -- the human body -- can "perceive" a pool shot properly and execute it. Perception is the key operative word here -- everyone perceives things differently based on strengths he/she has, such as 3D spacial perception, imagination, lines/edges, what-have-you. Everyone is different in this regard.

Just because you think CTE/Pro-1 is the squirrel's nuts, doesn't mean others do. And before you reply with the "but how do you know unless you try it?" broccoli-serving-on-the-kid's-plate notion, please know that I have the DVD (had it since its inception) and have gone over it several times. I do agree that this first DVD is not complete, but I won't bash it, because I know sometimes "thoroughly documenting" something is a skill all in and of itself. (That's why the job of "technical writers" exists in the first place -- not many folks have that ability.) I will be ordering the second DVD soon, because I want to fill in those gaps, in the role of being a consummate cueing arts student.

-Sean

Of course some others don't think it's the nuts. You see saying it's the "nuts" is an opinion based on personal experience - saying it doesn't work is a fallacy based on either no experience or incorrect usage.

As for humans being inconsistent people can be remarkably consistent when given a task to do. It's called training and is the basis of mass production. People have capabilities that they rarely access because most people are not interested in accessing them.

Studies have shown that ANYONE can increase their abilities in just about any field by focused practice. And of course they have to have proper instruction. But with proper instruction most people can do things that they previously thought was not in the realm of possibility for them.

So it's not correct to simply lump all people together by saying everyone sees things differently. Actually we all see things pretty much the same but we only turn our intense gaze upon that which is really important to us. If we deem something to be too hard, or too difficult, or not interesting, or not the quick fix we hoped for then we discard it and move on to something else. The "we" here meaning the majority of people who don't excel in everything they try.

I know you have the DVD and what if I said to you that CTE does not work for you? You cannot learn CTE Sean Leinen. It's impossible for you to make it work.

Would you agree that you do not have the cognitive and spatial ability to understand and implement CTE/ProOne?

OR

Do you simply not like it enough to spend the time to learn it properly and use it?

OR

Did you learn it and know it works as advertised but still choose not to use it?

Because there is a big difference between each of these options.

I certainly don't think you are too stupid to learn to use CTE. I don't think anyone on this forum is too stupid to learn it. Not even Duckie. Certainly not Lou.

I do think that there are some people who are too stupid to admit that it's a damn fine tool whether they personally want to use that particular tool or not. And this stubborness leads them to make stupid remarks about CTE's effectiveness which are simply falsehoods.

That's the category that Lou is in.

 

[JB Cases]

For those of you who think Lou did an unbiased open-minded review then I challenge Lou to debate Stan Shuffett on live video on a pool table to prove Lou's points.

After the debate the audience can vote as to who wins.

I will put up $1,000 and give it to the winner of the debate.

This is a free roll Lou. You have to go to Stan Shuffett's house and debate him on the pool table to prove your points. If you think you can prove the following points then you can win $5000.

1. That CTE is not learnable from the DVD.
2. That CTE does not work for all the shots presented on the DVD.
3. That CTE movements are harmful.
4. That Stan deliberately left out information on DVD1.
5. That CTE is not an OBJECTIVE and precise method of aiming.

Prove these points to the satisfaction of the viewing audience and you can walk away with $1000. If not then Stan gets my $1000.

 

[stan shuffett]

Invitation for top USA Pros

Deleted

Will repost in another location at another time.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Straightpool_99]

.....................

 

[lfigueroa]

That's exactly right. The problem I think we have here on AZB, is "all or nothing forced religion conversion." A pool aiming Crusades, if you will.

-Sean

Oh yeah. The run up to the DVD had all "the believers" in a total frenzy. It would answer EVERYTHING. It would prove everything ONCE AND FOR ALL. lol, they went nuts. (Think the sacrifice scene in front to the big gates in "King Kong.")

Now, here we sit, endless threads, an aiming forum, and another DVD later and it still doesn't make any sense. And if you can't make it work it's always operator error because:

You didn't give it long enough.
You misinterpreted the information.
You didn't come to it with an open mind.

John and a couple of others are the team running around your neighborhood ringing doorbells and asking if you are ready to accept CTE into your life.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Oh boy,

it gets deeper and deeper.

Where to start.

#1. The only reason you stay out of the aiming section is because you were FINALLY warned to stay out. You complained about that but complied.

#2. You jumped all over CJ and myself in the thread about CJ playing Bartrum and decided to post a link to the $20,000 challenge that was posted at One Pocket.org and called me a coward and a two-bit chump saying I was scared to play you because I declined to play for 20k at that time and offered "only" ten thousand. No one forced you to bring that up in that thread.

#3. I reminded you that the 10k offer was still good.

#4. You then created a NEW thread offering to play for 10k if we posted 3k. I accepted and posted the money.

#5. You THOUGHT you were going to get paid some money from a PPV so you were ok with barking and talking up the match. You even complained when a barking thread was moved from the main forum to NPR. YOU complained that entertainment like us barking was entirely pool-related and should be left in the main forum.

The moment you had to accept that you were NOT going to be paid and you were NOT going to be allowed to refuse to have the match streamed you stopped promoting the match. So let's be truthful Lou, if you were going to get paid a percentage of the PPV gate then you would be promoting the match.

#6. The posts you have made have contained fabrications, such as the one about you bringing people to watch me play and them offering you unlimited backing among others.

#7. Along the way you have called me crazy, said CTE is BS, etc...

#8. We all know you let and encouraged SJD to speak on your behalf. You let him "bark" for you and NEVER had single problem with the amount of posts he made. Wonder why?

So stop acting like you are innocent here. You are HATED by many Lou. The reason you are hated is because of the things you have said to and about others. You are hated by many on the forums and sadly, hated by many in your area. You are barred from Cue and Cushion because of your outstanding character.

So let's be clear, no one forced you to make this match. No one forced you to call me a two-bit coward. No one forced you to call Stan Shuffet a delusional con-artist. No one forced you be an _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

A few quick comments: no one has told me to stay off the aiming forum. I choose not be here because as far as I'm concerned it's the AZ equivalent of Comic-Com. And while it's funny to see everyone running around in their latest Anime CTE MAN costumes, I think it's a waste. It is nice though that all you guys are gathered together here in your own tree house.

As several folks here know, I never gave a rat's ass about the PPV. All that was just to pull your chain and watch your head explode over and over. People who knew even dropped hints about this but they blew right over your head. Many of us were laughing our asses off watching you go off about it. Of course it got kind of boring because it's so easy to get you to skyrocket.

And why would I care about promoting the match?! I even told Ed, owner of Sandcastle, that as far as I was concerned we could play on a back table. For me this was never about more than you and I playing. It was you than insisted on the Accu-Stats arena and the stream. I don't care one way or the other.

And I have never asked anyone on this forum, or any other, to post on my behalf. If SJD or anyone else wants to opine one way or the other, on any topic, I have never had anything to say about it.

Lastly, as far being hated, don't worry about that John. These last few months I have had plenty of contact from members of your "fan club." Turns out there are guys all over the country that don't think much of you, and thats putting it politely. Who knows. You may get to see some of them in NJ ;-)

Now buh-bye. You all have a good time in here and try and not poke each others eye out with those plastic light sabers.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

lol, I'm pretty sure I've never attacked you over anything.

(pssst, lol. Don't confront him with facts. Just winds him up tighter.)

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Mr. Figueroa my comment about stirring the shit pot wasn't directly directed towards you.
Sorry you took it that way.
I'm just saying CTE arguing has been going on for what seems like forever.
I would think theirs nothing left to argue about.
You either use it & believe in it or you don't.

It's cool.

And I agree about the aiming system stuff. You believe or you don't. If John would stop ring doorbells ala "The Book of Mormon" I think it'd die off pretty quick. But then that would be too much to expect, wouldn't it

Lou Figueroa

 

[BeiberLvr]

Oh yeah. The run up to the DVD had all "the believers" in a total frenzy. It would answer EVERYTHING. It would prove everything ONCE AND FOR ALL. lol, they went nuts. (Think the sacrifice scene in front to the big gates in "King Kong.")

Now, here we sit, endless threads, an aiming forum, and another DVD later and it still doesn't make any sense. And if you can't make it work it's always operator error because:

You didn't give it long enough.
You misinterpreted the information.
You didn't come to it with an open mind.

John and a couple of others are the team running around your neighborhood ringing doorbells and asking if you are ready to accept CTE into your life.

Lou Figueroa

It makes sense to plenty of people.

I've made this comparison before, but learning Pro One is a lot like learning how to draw the CB. Imagine you gave a paid lesson to a low level player on how to do this, and after 30 minutes of trying, they still couldn't do it correctly.

Now imagine they got upset with you and demanded a refund. Imagine they said things like, "Obviously hitting low on the CB doesn't work. This is BS. You're a scam artist."

Your response to them would be the same as Pro One users to people [such as yourselfl who bad mouth the system after a single viewing of the DVD. "You need more table time, and have to practice it diligently."

Whether it's aiming, stroke, positional play, it doesn't matter. Practice is needed. Pro One is an addendum to HAMB. Not a substitute.

 

[Gerry Williams]

Makes sense to me, let me know if you need something explained Lou.

Oh yeah. The run up to the DVD had all "the believers" in a total frenzy. It would answer EVERYTHING. It would prove everything ONCE AND FOR ALL. lol, they went nuts. (Think the sacrifice scene in front to the big gates in "King Kong.")

Now, here we sit, endless threads, an aiming forum, and another DVD later and it still doesn't make any sense. And if you can't make it work it's always operator error because:

You didn't give it long enough.
You misinterpreted the information.
You didn't come to it with an open mind.

John and a couple of others are the team running around your neighborhood ringing doorbells and asking if you are ready to accept CTE into your life.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

It's cool.

And I agree about the aiming system stuff. You believe or you don't. If John would stop ring doorbells ala "The Book of Mormon" I think it'd die off pretty quick. But then that would be too much to expect, wouldn't it

Lou Figueroa

Ringing doorbells?

No that would be the equivalent of going TO others and interrupting them to preach about CTE. I don't do that.

Again it's not a question of believe it or don't for me and those who have actual experience with it. That's YOUR position. And your position and what you do is the equivalent of picketing planned parenthood because you don't believe in birth control.

In other words the difference is that I don't actively try and stop others from doing what they want to try and get better and you do.

Why else would you buy the DVD after spending so many years knocking Hal and Stan and anyone who uses their methods?

You never planned to take it to the table. If you had then you would have taken up the many offers to get with you in person to show you how to do CTE before the DVD was ever made. You were never interested in actually learning it.

But you are sure interested in stopping others from learning it.

 

[one stroke]

Makes sense to me, let me know if you need something explained Lou.

I think he gets it just fine .. But me however is a different story Stan's run of 180 was nice
However the late greats sneezed out runs that high ,how in the world did they accomplished runs of 5,6.7 hundred balls with no CTE is mind boggling to me

1

 

[JB Cases]

(pssst, lol. Don't confront him with facts. Just winds him up tighter.)

Lou Figueroa

Pretty sure you wouldn't know a fact if it fell on you.

 

[JB Cases]

A few quick comments: no one has told me to stay off the aiming forum. I choose not be here because as far as I'm concerned it's the AZ equivalent of Comic-Com. And while it's funny to see everyone running around in their latest Anime CTE MAN costumes, I think it's a waste. It is nice though that all you guys are gathered together here in your own tree house.

You are wrong. You were told to cool it and you *****ed and whined about it but went away.

As several folks here know, I never gave a rat's ass about the PPV. All that was just to pull your chain and watch your head explode over and over. People who knew even dropped hints about this but they blew right over your head. Many of us were laughing our asses off watching you go off about it. Of course it got kind of boring because it's so easy to get you to skyrocket.

So you say now. Easy to say that after the fact when you whined about it. You weren't pulling my chain I was laughing at the thought that you wanted to get paid. And in fact you did want to get paid. I didn't go off, I told you that you would show up and play on the table provided or you would forfeit. Simple. You whined to Mike about about and were shut down.

And why would I care about promoting the match?! I even told Ed, owner of Sandcastle, that as far as I was concerned we could play on a back table. For me this was never about more than you and I playing. It was you than insisted on the Accu-Stats arena and the stream. I don't care one way or the other.

You cared enough to complain about your thread being moved to NPR. You said that if a high profile match wasn't pool related and the barking good entertainment value. So again stop with the falsehoods.

And I have never asked anyone on this forum, or any other, to post on my behalf. If SJD or anyone else wants to opine one way or the other, on any topic, I have never had anything to say about it.

Oh really? So you giving your opinion of how I address Wilson isn't "saying something"?

Lastly, as far being hated, don't worry about that John. These last few months I have had plenty of contact from members of your "fan club." Turns out there are guys all over the country that don't think much of you, and thats putting it politely. Who knows. You may get to see some of them in NJ ;-)

I will bet you another $50,000 I can line up more people who can't stand you than ones who can't stand me. And I am spotting you 20,000 posts. In a 400 mile radius around you you are known as the nittiest whiny control freak in the pool room. Tell us some stories about how you mess with table mechanics. "Have you ever put a pool table together Lou?" - Lou: "No I haven't but...." Remember this conversation?

Now buh-bye. You all have a good time in here and try and not poke each others eye out with those plastic light sabers.

Nah we are too busy becoming better players using methods you are too snobby to consider.

 

[JB Cases]

Oh yeah. The run up to the DVD had all "the believers" in a total frenzy. It would answer EVERYTHING. It would prove everything ONCE AND FOR ALL. lol, they went nuts. (Think the sacrifice scene in front to the big gates in "King Kong.")

Now, here we sit, endless threads, an aiming forum, and another DVD later and it still doesn't make any sense. And if you can't make it work it's always operator error because:

You didn't give it long enough.
You misinterpreted the information.
You didn't come to it with an open mind.

John and a couple of others are the team running around your neighborhood ringing doorbells and asking if you are ready to accept CTE into your life.

Lou Figueroa

Please. And you are the guy who says it's all table time. So according to you if one doesn't put in the time then one shouldn't wonder why one isn't better. But when it comes to CTE you expect that people should be able to view it once and immediately be able to put it all into practice.

And stop the crap about us saying the DVD would answer everything. That's YOU making shit up. We never said any such thing.

We said it would prove that CTE works and it does. Follow the directions and it works. Don't follow the directions and it does not.

You claim that no one could learn this from just the DVD alone but in fact many have. There is enough information on the DVDs both one and two for any person to learn this system if they truly want to learn it.

I watch videos on leather working all the time to stay on top of techniques and methods. Some of them would be quite beneficial to us but sometimes it looks like work to learn then so I don't WANT to to take the time to practice and then teach these methods.

I suppose I could be like you and go on leatherworker.net and give the leatherworking lessons a bad review because of my own unwillingness to learn. Wonder how that would go over?

 

[BeiberLvr]

I think he gets it just fine .. But me however is a different story Stan's run of 180 was nice
However the late greats sneezed out runs that high ,how in the world did they accomplished runs of 5,6.7 hundred balls with no CTE is mind boggling to me

1

Can you show me a single post from a CTE user that states using CTE is the only way to play at a high level?

 

[Gerry Williams]

These all or nothing posts should just be put on ignore Beib - they add no constructive value.

Whether you decide to use CTE or not doesn't matter as it is a personal choice. Bashing it due to a lack of understanding however is completely unacceptable.

Can you show me a single post from a CTE user that states using CTE is the only way to play at a high level?

 

[one stroke]

Can you show me a single post from a CTE user that states using CTE is the only way to play at a high level?

It's sarcasm .. We all know you don't need CTE to be a better player .... Don't we




1

 

[JB Cases]

Also Lou, yanking my chain is what trolls do. Although you get hammered by me each time you try it's still a troll move.

Here is the deal folks. Thanks for all support and votes of confidence. I know I have been pretty "loud" leading up to this match and I hate to see a hope-you-both-lose option on the poll and to see that some of you chose it.

I never wanted this - I just wanted to be left alone to enjoy pool the way I was experiencing it. I never wanted to be attacked by Lou back in 2001. After I beat him the first time he approached me at DCC and we had a drink and everything was good.

For years on AZB I left him alone. It's all on the record from 2005 to 2009 or so. Never said a cross word to the man.

Then he started in on me again and I gently reminded him that I had already beaten him once.

Now, what you have seen from me is partly fun in anticipation of a match for a lot of money and partly my frustration at this man's antics leaking out. I have ALWAYS stood ready to play him for a lot of money but had honestly given up on it ever happening.

My only regrets at this point are that I didn't make him post the whole ten thousand instead of letting him off for three thousand and not jacking the bet to twenty thousand. Now I will have to rely on those who think Lou will win to bet with me in order to earn more on this match. I don't mind taking their money but I would have enjoyed it more if it was all Lou and his secret backer's money. But money is money and it all spends equally.

When it's over I will offer my hand and hope that Lou has learned his lesson about picking on people. I doubt it but one can hope.

I want to make it clear that Lou has no problem being insulting to people he lies about but he doesn't have the stones to challenge most of them to play. He only challenges me because he thinks he is stealing. Which is another bully move.

So I will also be glad when it's over. Not only because I think I will be more than 10k to the good but because it will settle a score and prove that sometimes the guy the bully picks on is someone who can and will kick his ass.

 

[JB Cases]

Can you show me a single post from a CTE user that states using CTE is the only way to play at a high level?

These all or nothing posts should just be put on ignore Beib - they add no constructive value.

Whether you decide to use CTE or not doesn't matter as it is a personal choice. Bashing it due to a lack of understanding however is completely unacceptable.

It's ok. Stan is selling DVDs every day. Every day more and more people are seeing the videos you all have done and they get excited to learn this. Every time there is any controversy you simply go to the table and demonstrate more of what CTE/ProOne does.

I was so very lazy and didn't appreciate all the work that Stan put in on DVD1 until he did the banking demonstrations. At that point I said to myself IF this man can do these shots on demand and he is saying I can too by learning this system then I need to really learn it. And I did. And I can make those shots now on demand.

Not to the same degree of consistency that you and Stan and other ProOne users I know who went all-in to learn it deeply. But enough to make me a much better player than I was a few months ago.

So don't sweat these assholes who are cheating themselves and who are trying to cheat others. We already won and are speaking from the victory position. All they can do at this point is try and rewrite history by making shit up that we didn't ever say.

In fact we said, and I said the exact opposite, namely that one DOES NOT NEED CTE TO BE A GOOD PLAYER.

Said it right here more than two years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQcHkU1Dzo

This video has had more than 11,000 views. Some of my other videos have had more than 70,000. With yours, Stan's, Mohrt's, mine and others we have hundreds of thousands of views.

Do you think that a tiny handful of assholes on AZB can do anything about that with their continued asshole comments? Of course not. They are simply trolling because they have nothing better to do in their lives. They can't do jack about CTE/ProOne gaining ground or any aiming systems gaining ground.

We won years ago.

The information is all out there so if people want to try it then they can. It's not encrypted, not hidden, and is presented professionally by Stan, by you, by Mohrt and amateurishly but enthusiastically by me.

What do these assholes have to put up against that?

Nothing.

CTE/ProOne or any aiming method isn't going to take the country by storm with dozens of students in every pool room practicing diligently. Pool players in the USA rarely practice anything diligently. Some do and whatever they practice and master makes them better players. Most don't. All of us buy books and videos and take lessons and most of us don't REALLY absorb the material.

We watch it and expect the "important" part to enter our consciousness by some form of osmosis and think we don't really have to work out hard with the information.

What you have done is admirable and for those of us who have followed your journey from good player to much better player it has been an inspiration. Because of you we have all won. You and several others on this forum are the proof that CTE/ProOne works. And there are literally hundreds of others around the country who are living proof in their local leagues and tournaments. People who also diligently took the information to the table and because of it have become better players who enjoy shooting pool more than ever.

So don't ever sweat these assholes as if what they say really means anything. To me they are farting into the wind and we only indulge them at our whim reacting to their contorted faces as they are covered in the stench of their own shit.

We already proved all that needs to be proven. They have nothing and are nothing against it.