Using the OB to Sweep in Pro One

[BeiberLvr]

So I've talked about this a little in the past, but have recently put in a lot of hours experimenting some more. I've played a lot and shot many of the reference shots with very consistent results. Thought maybe anyone having trouble with the sweeps could try it out.

First of all, we know that the sweeps are based on the CTE line. In the diagram below, we can see that it's a left cut, so the CTE line will be at the right edge of the OB. The red arrow demonstrates an inside sweep, and the blue arrow, an outside sweep. In other words, for the red arrow, our eyes begin to sweep from INSIDE the CTE line and vice versa for the blue arrow.

So how do we use the OB in all of this? It's really simple, actually. When the shot needs to be thinned, you would use an inside sweep. So all you need to do is when getting down into your stance, is focus on the edge of the CB, and then once that line hits you directly between the eyes, get down into your full stance. You would do the same thing for an outside sweep when thickening the shot. The only difference is your focus would be on the center of the OB.

DISCLAIMER: The tip of your cue will NOT always point at these spots on the OB. Will it sometimes? Sure, but that should not be your focus.

 

[UpMySleeves]

First of all, we know that the sweeps are based on the CTE line

I better stop reading those threads until I get the DVD (which is on it's way! ) It will only confuse me more. I thought the left or right sweep were based on the perception line running through CCB after getting both visuals, and not the CTE line. I seem to have read that that exact perception isn't on either CTE or Edge to OB point line.

I don't think your diagram would work with a 45° perception, where there is no CTE line. Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am, I'll ignore these posts until I watch the DVD myself lol

 

[nobcitypool]

I better stop reading those threads until I get the DVD (which is on it's way! ) It will only confuse me more. I thought the left or right sweep were based on the perception line running through CCB after getting both visuals, and not the CTE line. I seem to have read that that exact perception isn't on either CTE or Edge to OB point line.

I don't think your diagram would work with a 45° perception, where there is no CTE line. Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am, I'll ignore these posts until I watch the DVD myself lol

You are correct. The op may have found something here that works for him but it isn't technically correct as far as cte/pro one goes.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I better stop reading those threads until I get the DVD (which is on it's way! ) It will only confuse me more. I thought the left or right sweep were based on the perception line running through CCB after getting both visuals, and not the CTE line. I seem to have read that that exact perception isn't on either CTE or Edge to OB point line.

I don't think your diagram would work with a 45° perception, where there is no CTE line. Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am, I'll ignore these posts until I watch the DVD myself lol

You're correct. I meant to say that I'm basing the sweeps off the CTE line.

As for shots without a CTE line, focusing on the edge or center of the OB will still work.

 

[nobcitypool]

I'm still confused about what you're trying to describe. It's not Pro One so I don't know why you want to potentially confuse people.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm still confused about what you're trying to describe. It's not Pro One so I don't know why you want to potentially confuse people.

Try this next time you practice.

Set up multiple shots that require an inside sweep. Line up the "v" in your bridge hand with the edge (opposite the pocket) of the object ball.

Do the same thing on shots requiring an outside sweep, but line up that "v" with the center of the object ball.

Not trying to make you change your ways, but just give it a serious go for about 15-20 minutes. If you report back here after trying that out, and don't have good results. Well then I'll be more than happy to think what I'm doing is just a personal thing that works only for me.

 

[nobcitypool]

I'm not debating whether it may, or may not, work. I'm simply saying it's not Pro One so you shouldn't label it as such. The correct procedures of pro one work just fine, I see no need to try this other stuff. Stan has spent thousands of hours developing his system, I don't think you should be on here bastardizing it.

If you have an aiming method you are using that works for you, describe it. Just don't call it pro one when it clearly isn't.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm not debating whether it may, or may not, work. I'm simply saying it's not Pro One so you shouldn't label it as such. The correct procedures of pro one work just fine, I see no need to try this other stuff. Stan has spent thousands of hours developing his system, I don't think you should be on here bastardizing it.

If you have an aiming method you are using that works for you, describe it. Just don't call it pro one when it clearly isn't.

The visuals are the same. I still use left and right sweeps. The only difference is I'm using objective reference points on the object ball to guide the sweeps. If you shave the fur off a dog, it's still a dog. This is still Pro One.

It's funny how proponents of the system always chastise others for not being open minded, or not actually going to the table to practice shots. Yet, here you are, closed minded and not willing to spend 15 minutes of your time.

And if you haven't paid attention to Stan's Youtube channel, he recently uploaded a series of 3 videos on sweeps. Going over things not covered on either of the DVDs. I guess that's not Pro One either.

 

[nobcitypool]

I'm done arguing with you, sweeps are not performed referencing the object ball. I also haven't seen anything about aligning the V of the hand with the edge of the object ball. This isn't about being close minded. If you've found something you "think" works that is outside what Stan has published about CTE/Pro One, you should present that to Stan to review prior to publishing it and calling it Pro One.

 

[mista335]

I thought the left or right sweep were based on the perception line running through CCB after getting both visuals, and not the CTE line.

You ARE right.

Once you have established your visuals, your focus is then on the CB centre.

You then sweep into the CB centre.

To be honest when starting with Pro One I believe it's just easier to use manual pivots until you feel comfortable with all the alignments and pivots.

For a thick cut to the left, move your eyes so that you see the CTE line and the inside edge to 'A'.

Now move your eyes to the centre CB. Move into the shot taking your cue tip to 1/2 tip to the right of centre CB. Then a pivot to center. Pull the trigger.

Gerry Williams' video describes this perfectly (as usual).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ-eQ8oUKdM

 

[IamCalvin06]

Relax guys...

We are all here in the subforum to share our experiences with aiming. Nobcitypool has been extremely helpful to me and many others by sharing what he's learned (for free I might add).

Beiberlvr seems to be like me and is discovering or trying new things with ProOne as his base. I don't think he's trying to call what he's doing "ProOne" as it should be. He's just offering what has been working for him.

Guys there's enough ppl out there trying to discredit what we call aiming. Lets not tear each other apart. I don't think he's trying to confuse or say THIS is how it shall be done. Just offering ppl another way to go about it.

Before Stan even released ProOne. me and I'm sure countless others who learned CTE from Hal were all doing different things trying to make it gap free.

To the OP. I know what you are saying. I too see the inside sweep as my eyes moving towards the CTEL, and an outside sweep moving towards the center of the OB.

That's how I started and to this day I still want to do it that way. However doing that way seems to have gaps. There are shots that come up where using this method doesn't work. Why? I have no idea. But to me it truely is easier then PRO1 sweeps. I fight myself constantly every time I shoot bc I know the CB is the target.

Idk what is wrong. But I'm working thru it day by day for a year now. Until someone is able to confirm that the OB as reference points is gap free and can demo it for me. I will continue to do just as Stan has described.

By the way the new angled cue pivot Stan's been demonstrating. I discovered that as well while fiddling with trying to get ProOne right. Not saying I did it first but...

ProOne is ProOne! It's visual sweeping to eliminate manual pivots.

Some of us have just been defending our aiming that we may be a little sensitive at times and want others to be clear on what we know to be ProOne. But there's definitely nothing wrong with discovering new ways to use our eyes and body.

 

[nobcitypool]

We are all here in the subforum to share our experiences with aiming. Nobcitypool has been extremely helpful to me and many others by sharing what he's learned (for free I might add).

Beiberlvr seems to be like me and is discovering or trying new things with ProOne as his base. I don't think he's trying to call what he's doing "ProOne" as it should be. He's just offering what has been working for him.

Guys there's enough ppl out there trying to discredit what we call aiming. Lets not tear each other apart. I don't think he's trying to confuse or say THIS is how it shall be done. Just offering ppl another way to go about it.

Before Stan even released ProOne. me and I'm sure countless others who learned CTE from Hal were all doing different things trying to make it gap free.

To the OP. I know what you are saying. I too see the inside sweep as my eyes moving towards the CTEL, and an outside sweep moving towards the center of the OB.

That's how I started and to this day I still want to do it that way. However doing that way seems to have gaps. There are shots that come up where using this method doesn't work. Why? I have no idea. But to me it truely is easier then PRO1 sweeps. I fight myself constantly every time I shoot bc I know the CB is the target.

Idk what is wrong. But I'm working thru it day by day for a year now. Until someone is able to confirm that the OB as reference points is gap free and can demo it for me. I will continue to do just as Stan has described.

By the way the new angled cue pivot Stan's been demonstrating. I discovered that as well while fiddling with trying to get ProOne right. Not saying I did it first but...

ProOne is ProOne! It's visual sweeping to eliminate manual pivots.

Some of us have just been defending our aiming that we may be a little sensitive at times and want others to be clear on what we know to be ProOne. But there's definitely nothing wrong with discovering new ways to use our eyes and body.

Good post.!

 

[Mirza]

Try this next time you practice.

Set up multiple shots that require an inside sweep. Line up the "v" in your bridge hand with the edge (opposite the pocket) of the object ball.

Do the same thing on shots requiring an outside sweep, but line up that "v" with the center of the object ball.

Not trying to make you change your ways, but just give it a serious go for about 15-20 minutes. If you report back here after trying that out, and don't have good results. Well then I'll be more than happy to think what I'm doing is just a personal thing that works only for me.

Wait, if you want to thin the shot (inside sweep) - how can you line up the V with the outside edge instead of the center when edge is going away from the cutshot?

Can you make a video of what you're trying to describe, maybe then it will be more clear?

 

[BeiberLvr]

Wait, if you want to thin the shot (inside sweep) - how can you line up the V with the outside edge instead of the center when edge is going away from the cutshot?

Can you make a video of what you're trying to describe, maybe then it will be more clear?

Think about straight in shots. They all require an outside sweep. Where is the V aligned? Through the center of the CB and the OB. So naturally, the further our V goes from center, the more likely we are to miss the straight in shot. Why? Because the shot is being thinned.

I hope that helps. If not, I can try to make a video on Wednesday. My camera doesn't record audio, but I can shoot a few shots facing the camera so you can see what I'm doing.

 

[Mirza]

That video would be great, you can later explain in comments what sweep you used and where you aligned your V because I'm not getting it like this, through word, hard to imagine it.

Tnx for your efforts!

Think about straight in shots. They all require an outside sweep. Where is the V aligned? Through the center of the CB and the OB. So naturally, the further our V goes from center, the more likely we are to miss the straight in shot. Why? Because the shot is being thinned.

I hope that helps. If not, I can try to make a video on Wednesday. My camera doesn't record audio, but I can shoot a few shots facing the camera so you can see what I'm doing.

 

[IamCalvin06]

Well I know there's alot of confusion on what beiberlvr is saying. If you're ok with ProOne then just stick with it.

For me this has been something that I thought only I was going thru. When I sweep right I thought my eyes were supposed to move right just like ProOne describes. Physically your eyes move literally to whatever side u sweep. However, for some of us (I suspect the ones who learned manual CTE before Stan discovered and refined CTE understanding) we think visually the eyes or "picture" is supposed to move right. It's actually the opposite.

I have been going thru many highs and lows the past year. This has brought me back to the beginning of my journey when everything was so clear. I recaptured my connection with ProOne bc Beiberlvr was aware an intuitive enough to realize and explain what he is doing on his own journey.

The use of OB and the references he uses are helpful but I found gaps. That doesn't mean it has gaps for him though. He might have found a way to adapt and use it for his own PSR.

I guess I'm just the type of person who when something is proven fact and its taught a certain way to trust the system, I just keep going with it thinking that its something I'm doing wrong but in actuality i just interpret it the wrong way and need someone to explain it in a way I can understand.

But hey Bieberlvr I can't thank you enough for that diagram and ur experience. I consider you one of many brethren in ProOne. I'm not saying that he's a know it all guru but to me his explanation has helped me. So I just want to express my gratitude.

Hal, Stan, Dave S. (spiderwebcomm), nobcitypool, Gerry W., Mohrt, and Beiberlvr thanks again for being living proof of a new dimension in aiming.

If anyone else out there is interested in learning or need help. These guys are willing to help and promote. They have put countless hours at the table and many hours on the keyboards answering and helping others. These guys are doing more for pool than anyone realizes. THANK YOU GUYS

 

[BeiberLvr]

Well I know there's alot of confusion on what beiberlvr is saying. If you're ok with ProOne then just stick with it.

For me this has been something that I thought only I was going thru. When I sweep right I thought my eyes were supposed to move right just like ProOne describes. Physically your eyes move literally to whatever side u sweep. However, for some of us (I suspect the ones who learned manual CTE before Stan discovered and refined CTE understanding) we think visually the eyes or "picture" is supposed to move right. It's actually the opposite.

I have been going thru many highs and lows the past year. This has brought me back to the beginning of my journey when everything was so clear. I recaptured my connection with ProOne bc Beiberlvr was aware an intuitive enough to realize and explain what he is doing on his own journey.

The use of OB and the references he uses are helpful but I found gaps. That doesn't mean it has gaps for him though. He might have found a way to adapt and use it for his own PSR.

I guess I'm just the type of person who when something is proven fact and its taught a certain way to trust the system, I just keep going with it thinking that its something I'm doing wrong but in actuality i just interpret it the wrong way and need someone to explain it in a way I can understand.

But hey Bieberlvr I can't thank you enough for that diagram and ur experience. I consider you one of many brethren in ProOne. I'm not saying that he's a know it all guru but to me his explanation has helped me. So I just want to express my gratitude.

Hal, Stan, Dave S. (spiderwebcomm), nobcitypool, Gerry W., Mohrt, and Beiberlvr thanks again for being living proof of a new dimension in aiming.

If anyone else out there is interested in learning or need help. These guys are willing to help and promote. They have put countless hours at the table and many hours on the keyboards answering and helping others. These guys are doing more for pool than anyone realizes. THANK YOU GUYS

Glad I could be of some help.

It was never my intention to say what I'm doing is better than what Stan has put out there. Looking back, I totally understand why Nob was being so defensive. I also hope that he at least understands (although might not agree) why I referred to my method as Pro One. Same visuals, same sweeps, but using the OB vs. the CB.

I only shared this method with everyone in hopes that it would help them as much as it has helped me. In regards to any gaps in my method, well I can honestly say I haven't seen any. However, I simply propose that anyone (such as yourself) who thinks there are gaps to give me a list of shots in which you think gaps would be present using this method.

I'll be playing some on Wednesday, and would be more than happy to shoot them and record a video. If I can't make the shots using this method, well then it won't hurt me to say it's incomplete.

 

[IamCalvin06]

Glad I could be of some help.

It was never my intention to say what I'm doing is better than what Stan has put out there. Looking back, I totally understand why Nob was being so defensive. I also hope that he at least understands (although might not agree) why I referred to my method as Pro One. Same visuals, same sweeps, but using the OB vs. the CB.

I only shared this method with everyone in hopes that it would help them as much as it has helped me. In regards to any gaps in my method, well I can honestly say I haven't seen any. However, I simply propose that anyone (such as yourself) who thinks there are gaps to give me a list of shots in which you think gaps would be present using this method.

I'll be playing some on Wednesday, and would be more than happy to shoot them and record a video. If I can't make the shots using this method, well then it won't hurt me to say it's incomplete.

Two thumbs up there! I'll be playing tomorrow so I'll try to remember shots and mark them if I have any questions. Thanks again

 

[BeiberLvr]

Two thumbs up there! I'll be playing tomorrow so I'll try to remember shots and mark them if I have any questions. Thanks again

No problem. I look forward to the challenge.

 

[nobcitypool]

Well I know there's alot of confusion on what beiberlvr is saying. If you're ok with ProOne then just stick with it.

For me this has been something that I thought only I was going thru. When I sweep right I thought my eyes were supposed to move right just like ProOne describes. Physically your eyes move literally to whatever side u sweep. However, for some of us (I suspect the ones who learned manual CTE before Stan discovered and refined CTE understanding) we think visually the eyes or "picture" is supposed to move right. It's actually the opposite.

I have been going thru many highs and lows the past year. This has brought me back to the beginning of my journey when everything was so clear. I recaptured my connection with ProOne bc Beiberlvr was aware an intuitive enough to realize and explain what he is doing on his own journey.

The use of OB and the references he uses are helpful but I found gaps. That doesn't mean it has gaps for him though. He might have found a way to adapt and use it for his own PSR.

I guess I'm just the type of person who when something is proven fact and its taught a certain way to trust the system, I just keep going with it thinking that its something I'm doing wrong but in actuality i just interpret it the wrong way and need someone to explain it in a way I can understand.

But hey Bieberlvr I can't thank you enough for that diagram and ur experience. I consider you one of many brethren in ProOne. I'm not saying that he's a know it all guru but to me his explanation has helped me. So I just want to express my gratitude.

Hal, Stan, Dave S. (spiderwebcomm), nobcitypool, Gerry W., Mohrt, and Beiberlvr thanks again for being living proof of a new dimension in aiming.

If anyone else out there is interested in learning or need help. These guys are willing to help and promote. They have put countless hours at the table and many hours on the keyboards answering and helping others. These guys are doing more for pool than anyone realizes. THANK YOU GUYS

Among several, one value of learning CTE manual pivoting first is it gives you a "feel" for the sweep. Try using CTE but instead of just manually pivoting, move your head (and possible your body) in sync with the pivot. Also note that the pivot isn't simply left to right, it is somewhat radial. You don't move purely right or left, you move "to the right ... or left". Watch what Stan does in the DVD's and videos. He doesn't move right or left and then come into the shot. He moves into the shooting position right or left. I am sharing this because it was confusing for me at first. Once I started "circling" the CB to gain my visuals, versus moving purely left and right, the visuals started to pop into place.

You are correct, as you sweep right, the CB appears to be moving to the left. I think what's more important is, as you're sweeping to the right, the actual aim line is moving to the left. Does that make sense? Regardless, all of that is rather irrelevant as what you're doing is searching for CCB, after your sweep and then bringing your cue into alignment with the visual you now have.

I think being an Engineer by degree probably inhibited my learning curve with CTE/Pro One. I took everything so literally. I was trying to figure everything out mathematically. Had I simply taken Stan, Gerry, mohrt and a host of others at face value and focused on the important things they keep saying over, and over and over, I would be much further along. I look back now and slap my forehead wondering how I managed to make something reasonably simple so difficult. LOL