Did The JB vs Lou Match Settle The Great Aiming Debate Once & For All?

[mohrt]

I understand this. Really. I would say the same thing, about anything of this sort, i.e., please go to the source for the best information. I get that.

Nevertheless, please continue on with me for a little while. I promise to be teachable.

My next question is, why was the 1/2 tip chosen? And, probably just as importantly, how do I know where you want my bridge hand?

the 1/2 tip is the perfect offset for CTE Pro One. Why? Ask Stan. That is how the geometry worked out. I think this was chosen for its objectiveness. You could learn to use a wider pivot, but that is unnecessary.

As for bridge distances, it does matter with manual pivots. They are all laid out on the DVD. There is one distance that works well for most shots, until you get within 1 diamond between OB/CB, then the bridge distance needs to shorten.

With sweeps the 1/2 tip pivot is completely visual so the bridge placement will not affect the sweep, you just put the bridge hand down where comfortable with the shot. This is a major advantage of learning Pro One over manual pivots IMHO.

 

[swest]

I'm going to lay this out there right now, for those that piss and moan upon the idea of having to purchase a DVD to learn an aiming system. Stan has put countless hours of time, money, heart and soul to bring this information to the masses. Without his effort, NO ONE would even have the slightest clue about this information aside from the lucky few that had taken lessons directly from Hal or Stan.

The reason all the information isn't laid out in plain site on a web site or here on AZB is simple. Stan wants to at least break even on his efforts to put this information out there. Also, just about anywhere you see an attempt to lay it all out is usually riddled with errors and misconceptions (ie. Dr. Dave website.) There really is no better gain of knowledge of this information than directly from the source in the form of a DVD, and a very modest price for the value. The resale value is also quite good here, if you decide it is not for you. So you can gain nuggets of information here and there, and you can ask all the questions you want directly to Stan and you will always get enthusiastic help. Most of the CTE users here on AZB are also usually quite accommodating.

It's not about the money. Stan is entitled to make money however he can... That doesn't bother me. For me, it is about the time investment.

And, when you cite Dr. Dave's website as a source of misinformation, I immediately have my guard up. But, let's get beyond that.

I'm not asking you to reveal the entire system. I'm just asking for enough of a glimpse of what's going on from someone that is using it to help my attitude.

 

[swest]

Try this link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwI_62Npos

Watched it.

 

[swest]

I don't understand how bridge length (on either manual pivot, or the sweep - based on that video I just watched) is not critical. Different bridge lengths will take the cue in a different direction with the same pivot or sweep (with the same 1/2 tip offset).

No?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

So your comment about "whipping your dicks out" in a public forum is ok? Not sure what world you live in but in mine that type of comment is inappropriate and unacceptable. The fact that you would post that is "ridiculous".

People like Gerry are why I gave up the game. Too many people so high above us mere mortals. People in other sports are much nicer. I belong to a badminton forum. No bickering. And you can express an opinion, or ask a question without having your comments called "ridiculous".

Oh, and there's nothing derogatory about saying "want to whip out and measure". I'm assuming Gerry's heard it before, and that he's over 18, so he can handle mature material. I didn't call him any names. I didn't belittle his stance. And I didn't question his intelligence. Can he say the same? Nope.

 

[mohrt]

It's not about the money. Stan is entitled to make money however he can... That doesn't bother me. For me, it is about the time investment.

And, when you cite Dr. Dave's website as a source of misinformation, I immediately have my guard up. But, let's get beyond that.

I'm not asking you to reveal the entire system. I'm just asking for enough of a glimpse of what's going on from someone that is using it to help my attitude.

I will say with conviction that the information on Dave's website is misleading and will lead to a lot of frustration for someone trying to learn the system. Dave tries to derive the system as an angle-based system with gaps. It is not correct.

For instance: take a straight in shot. You can use either CTEL/A or CTEL/C to line up and make the shot. Now move the OB/CB over 1 diamond so they are lined up to a rail. Now what happens when you shoot CTEL/A and CTEL/B on the shot? Both go straight into the rail yes? Nope. They are two separate shots with separate visuals. It is a visual system, and when you move balls around you get different edges/perceptions.

 

[bwally]

I don't understand how bridge length (on either manual pivot, or the sweep - based on that video I just watched) is not critical. Different bridge lengths will take the cue in a different direction with the same pivot or sweep (with the same 1/2 tip offset).

No?

Bridge length on a the manual pivot is critical. Stan does mention this in his DVD and provides a chart on it as well. With the sweep though the target is simply center cue ball. Find your visuals then move to center CB.

 

[mohrt]

I don't understand how bridge length (on either manual pivot, or the sweep - based on that video I just watched) is not critical. Different bridge lengths will take the cue in a different direction with the same pivot or sweep (with the same 1/2 tip offset).

No?

See my previous post. Bridge lengths are important for manual pivots.

 

[nobcitypool]

When he called my comments "ridiculous", I guess he was being flattering? Hmm....don't think so. If you disagree, say so. But "ridiculous" has a synonym - "idiotic". Look it up, if you care to.

He just called a spade a spade dude. If the shoe fits wear it. Figuratively speaking, Gerry has whipped his out for everyone to see. Check out his videos. You, on the other hand, say you're quitting the game. Looks like you came up short pal. You sound kind of bitter.

 

[swest]

mohrt and bwally,

The reason I included the sweep is that, according to the video, your bridge hand ends up in the same place whether it's a manual pivot, or a sweep. So I don't see the difference there (and Stan's instruction on this point seems clear).

 

[bwally]

mohrt and bwally,

The reason I included the sweep is that, according to the video, your bridge hand ends up in the same place whether it's a manual pivot, or a sweep. So I don't see the difference there (and Stan's instruction on this point seems clear).

mohrt is probably better at answering this than me but I will try and he can correct me if I am wrong.

I believe what the sweep does is allow your body to arrive in your stance in a more natural position as opposed to going straight in and adjusting from there which can be uncomfortable.

 

[swest]

mohrt is probably better at answering this than me but I will try and he can correct me if I am wrong.

I believe what the sweep does is allow your body to arrive in your stance in a more natural position as opposed to going straight in and adjusting from there which can be uncomfortable.

To put it another way, then, you have to end up in the same place, or you wouldn't have the same shot, right? So, whether I use manual or sweep, doesn't a different bridge length put my cue on a different line?

p.s. I'm just going by what he presented in the video...

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

He just called a spade a spade dude. If the shoe fits wear it. Figuratively speaking, Garry has whipped his out for everyone to see. Check out his videos. You, on the other hand, say you're quitting the game. Looks like you came up short pal. You sound kind of bitter.

Bitter? Not at all. Good on him for running balls off of a table. If this is the measuring stick for the greatness of one's life, then I'm not sure it's ME who came up short.

I nearly lost my brother to cancer this year. I was separated from my wife for over a year. Since I left pool, I became closer with my brother, lost weight, got healthier, and managed to rebuild a marriage I was throwing away.

Pool is a game. That's all. You may as well show me someone doing double jumps in checkers. Excellence in pool is not a sign that someone is an exceptional human being.

 

[bwally]

Bridge length is critical no matter what system you use.

FWIW here has been my experience so far. I have never used the manual pivot method and I still don't fully understand the sweeps. But once I had the "aha" moment and saw the visuals as described all I did was then move to center cue ball and immediately started to pocket balls. It may be that as Stan describes that my eyes lead and my body just followed into the correct position.

All I know is that I started to pocket shots that were giving me heaps of trouble before. After that I stopped questioning the "why" and "how of the system. Having said that I am still new to CTE and in the learning process myself...

 

[nobcitypool]

Bitter? Not at all. Good on him for running balls off of a table. If this is the measuring stick for the greatness of one's life, then I'm not sure it's ME who came up short.

I nearly lost my brother to cancer this year. I was separated from my wife for over a year. Since I left pool, I became closer with my brother, lost weight, got healthier, and managed to rebuild a marriage I was throwing away.

Pool is a game. That's all. You may as well show me someone doing double jumps in checkers. Excellence in pool is not a sign that someone is an exceptional human being.

Sounds like you made a good decision. Kind of conflicts though with you then wasting your time here arguing about an aiming system you know absolutely nothing about.

Best wishes for your Brother to get better and I hope you're able to reconcile your marriage. You are absolutely correct, comparatively speaking, pool has little importance.

Just for the sake of relevance, I would point out this is a pool forum, not a cancer recovery or marriage counseling forum. I assumed your reference to pulling out dicks and comparing was figurative. I don't know, you may be the second coming of Johnny Holmes or you may be hung like a light switch. Given the figurative challenge, given it is a pool forum, I thought Gerry's performance videos had direct relevance.

 

[nobcitypool]

To put it another way, then, you have to end up in the same place, or you wouldn't have the same shot, right? So, whether I use manual or sweep, doesn't a different bridge length put my cue on a different line?

p.s. I'm just going by what he presented in the video...

No. When you use CTE with a manual pivot, the bridge hand is placed with the V on the line you get from your perception. Obviously (well, I hope it is obvious), the rotation you get from the pivot varies with pivot length (distance from bridge V to tip of cue).

With Pro One, after you've gotten your visual perception and bend into the shot, you are looking down the aim line. Then it is simply a matter of aligning your cue to take the shot with your bridge hand being placed naturally.

 

[nobcitypool]

Bitter? Not at all. Good on him for running balls off of a table. If this is the measuring stick for the greatness of one's life, then I'm not sure it's ME who came up short.

I nearly lost my brother to cancer this year. I was separated from my wife for over a year. Since I left pool, I became closer with my brother, lost weight, got healthier, and managed to rebuild a marriage I was throwing away.

Pool is a game. That's all. You may as well show me someone doing double jumps in checkers. Excellence in pool is not a sign that someone is an exceptional human being.

By the way, you apparently suggested measuring dicks was a method for measuring greatness in life. Remember, you are the one who threw out that reference.

 

[stan shuffett]

To put it another way, then, you have to end up in the same place, or you wouldn't have the same shot, right? So, whether I use manual or sweep, doesn't a different bridge length put my cue on a different line?

p.s. I'm just going by what he presented in the video...

This has all been answered before.

In PRO ONE the eyes lead to the shot line. ..meaning I can place my bridge wherever I choose: 8 inches...15 inches if I so choose.

Not so in Manual. Ultimately the pivot takes the eyes to the shot line.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Sounds like you made a good decision. Kind of conflicts though with you then wasting your time here arguing about an aiming system you know absolutely nothing about.

Best wishes for your Brother to get better and I hope you're able to reconcile your marriage. You are absolutely correct, comparatively speaking, pool has little importance.

Just for the sake of relevance, I would point out this is a pool forum, not a cancer recovery or marriage counseling forum. I assumed your reference to pulling out dicks and comparing was figurative. I don't know, you may be the second coming of Johnny Holmes or you may be hung like a light switch. Given the figurative challenge, given it is a pool forum, I thought Gerry's performance videos had direct relevance.

I'm hung like a baby. It's big enough for me.

I'm packing up my cues and going home. Once my "pay it forward" thread is done, and my cues are sold, I'll be leaving you to your sandbox. Take care, Nob.

 

[swest]

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After that I stopped questioning the "why" and "how of the system.
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I hear what you're saying. It just doesn't work for me. I am continually questioning, and validating, and, well hopefully you get my point. And it's not just pool, it's everything.

Notwithstanding Gandalf's charge to Saruman: "... he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." I have to break it all down. Obviously there are limits to how far I can take that, but then I rely on others to have done it, and I count on their rigor and methods.

When I drive my car, I rely on the accumulated engineering wisdom and process of 'them what built it' to give me the confidence that I won't crash. And, at some level, I <know> that someone I can, or should, trust has done those validations for me.