Lucky! only that match and not the whole tournament! What is the official rule of say US Open, or Derby! i know for 14.1 is different , what is it in 9 or 10 ball, does player looses the match, or just the rack he unsportsmanlike conduct with! or DQ from the tournament
Darren disqualified in a straight pool match?
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
Lucky! only that match and not the whole tournament! What is the official rule of say US Open, or Derby! i know for 14.1 is different , what is it in 9 or 10 ball, does player looses the match, or just the rack he unsportsmanlike conduct with! or DQ from the tournament
This event was a little different than the US Open. It was an Invitational with FOUR participants. If he gets tossed from the entire event, you have a HUGE hole in the event that a lot of people paid to have produced. Right call was DQ on the game only.
There's zero choice about handing Darren an automatic loss here.
By disturbing the balls, you change the outcome of the entire 14.1 game.
Any other solution produces a tainted result, like "what if they had played without the balls being moved,
he woulda had an easier shot here, and then this coulda happened, and then..."
Trying to reset them back to their original positions is no good, millimeters count,
especially in a game where most of the balls spend a lot of time being frozen to other balls.
Trying some homebrew solution like "he loses just his inning and 15 points"
is no good either, the layout toasty walks up to may not be the one that he'd have after
the missed combo, and it may not be something thorsten likes.
If it were 10b you're playing a race rather than single game, you can just dock him
that game and carry on. But in straight pool, one single game IS the race so unfortunately
for Darren, he loses that "set" with no chance to make up for his fit of anger.
By disturbing the balls, you change the outcome of the entire 14.1 game.
Any other solution produces a tainted result, like "what if they had played without the balls being moved,
he woulda had an easier shot here, and then this coulda happened, and then..."
Trying to reset them back to their original positions is no good, millimeters count,
especially in a game where most of the balls spend a lot of time being frozen to other balls.
Trying some homebrew solution like "he loses just his inning and 15 points"
is no good either, the layout toasty walks up to may not be the one that he'd have after
the missed combo, and it may not be something thorsten likes.
If it were 10b you're playing a race rather than single game, you can just dock him
that game and carry on. But in straight pool, one single game IS the race so unfortunately
for Darren, he loses that "set" with no chance to make up for his fit of anger.
That's right. And, it appears short-rack rotation lingo has polluted 14.1, in that I hear (and see, in writing here on AZB and in live-stream chat) people referring to a 14.1 game as "race to 150" or "race to 200" -- which is a complete misnomer. It's not a "race," folks; it's a single game to 150 or 200 points. When describing a straight pool match, the proper lingo is "150-point game" or "200-point game."
So, in Darren's case, by grossly disturbing the layout of the balls, he forfeited that "game" -- remember, straight pool is a continuous game to 150 or 200 points. It's not a "race" of individual racks delineated by a "money ball being pocketed" and a subsequent wildcard break shot, like in short-rack rotation.
So that should help explain Ken's decision to [make the correct] call to disqualify Darren for disturbing the layout of the balls.
-Sean
No way. The warning comes from knowing the rules. The games needs this kind of stuff to be stopped. We should be reading about how great people play, not Earl's melt downs or Morris' actions.
Play by the rules or dont play.
Last edited:
Under WPA rules, regardless of the game, the penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is a matter of judgment by the referee:
"6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately."
Professional play should be treaded professionally yes, but in all professional sports these things happen, and usually there is a warning.
Pool is supposed to have a "kind" nature, but still it is played by humans.
So, it all depends on judgement, like it is mentioned in the official rules.
In this case it's more difficult to replace balls, but still possible if the match was videotaped.
A single warning (perhaps accompanied by loss of several points) could be a choice here, not saying that the choice made was "too strict", it's good trying to exploit every possibility for having a match continued, with appropiate warnings to players, but in the end it all depends on personal judgement and by "definition" this is best approached by people that are entitled to the task that moment...
Pool is supposed to have a "kind" nature, but still it is played by humans.
So, it all depends on judgement, like it is mentioned in the official rules.
In this case it's more difficult to replace balls, but still possible if the match was videotaped.
A single warning (perhaps accompanied by loss of several points) could be a choice here, not saying that the choice made was "too strict", it's good trying to exploit every possibility for having a match continued, with appropiate warnings to players, but in the end it all depends on personal judgement and by "definition" this is best approached by people that are entitled to the task that moment...
I agree with all of this. I would say this went beyond unsportsmanlike conduct though. When you slam the balls and they go flying all over the table, there's hardly a way to continue fairly for the opponent.. If it was just a warning you receive for this, players could slam all the balls and get them out of position for there opponent knowing they would only receive a verbal warning for rearranging balls. This was the correct decision by Ken.
Not to bag on Darren as I love his game and watching him play, but he was on here a while back selling multiple broken cues. Apparently he is prone to an occasional outburst.
Bottom line, I think Ken made the right call.
Bottom line, I think Ken made the right call.
..
What a load of garbage ...
Well 95% of players bang there cue on tables this guy is just trying to stirr thing up nothing better to i guess ..
So here we go you make it sound there is only Darren that breaks his cues cues??? Oh and by the way broken cues are worth more :smile:
..Well said players have emotions some show some does not its good to see what there going through nice to see someone here with sense:wink:
Thanks much, and thanks to all that replied.
That seems discordant given that (for example) they're playing all ball fouls, and just a players clothing touching a ball results in a foul and loss of inning.
I also wonder at what Billy's comment when he returned to the mic after that - he said that Darren didn't mean to do what he did. So what did he mean to do the way he threw his cue forward at that ball?
I don't deny Darren's greatness as a player, and these outbursts seem pretty rare, but I believe it's fair to levy a strong penalty for this kind of situation. In any case, what's done is done, and this fine event has moved on. Appleton is currently tied up 7-7 with Hohmann in their 10 ball match.
Let me explain why I said what I said about Darren.. not meaning to do what he did. Imo and in the opinion of others it looked as though Darrens emotional act was intentional. I'm speaking about "spearing the cue ball" If imo you do something intentional to danger the health of your opponent or a spectator it should be an automatic disqualification. I believe that Ken saw it the same way and Darren wasn't disqualified for just moving multiple balls, he was disqualified for jeopardizing the health of another person through his emotional decision with "spearing balls" Like I said, it looked intentional to me and there can be no room in professional sport of any kind that, that type of display of anger should be allowed, period.
I spoke to Darren the next day..not the day of the incident, and he said that it was not intentional, however, imo the spearing of balls whether intentional or unintentional should be viewed the same because it endangers other people regardless of the intent. After talking to Darren the next day I felt that it should be understood that what he did was not intentional and that's why I mentioned it during the commentary. It does make a difference whether the act was intentional or not..in terms of a mans dignity.
Bill Incardona
Darren Appleton to me is the same person I knew before the incident and after the incident, my opinion of him hasn't changed. He handles himself admirably..unfortunately he has a "chink in the armor" with his anger. (controlling it) But don't we all..really.:embarrassed2: The important thing is..he's getting better, and i'm sure he'll improve off of this as well.
Darren's a champion, and one of few that I would like to be in a "fox hole" with. Just thought i'd throw that in. :yeah:
Bill Incardona
Tap, Tap, Tap.
My taps don't come from lack of knowing Lil Shrek (as I belovingly call him). I only wish he could be on our M Cup team - he's got "it".
How was the health of Orcullo or the spectators in danger? It's hard for me to picture a scenario that doesn't leave me believing this comment is a stretch from reality. I mean we're you really in fear that someone could have been hurt?
Im not going to go so far as to say Darren has a problem but it is true that anger hits us all at times and examples of expressing the emotion can be seen in every sport.
Here are just a few examples from golf.
http://youtu.be/4gZpqOK9JOg
http://youtu.be/EnaPWpUpFdg
http://youtu.be/an3D2nbkWik
Last edited: