Is this the same as playing the ghost? Why be rewarded for not making a ball? Why not break and turn the table over? Like a kick off in football.
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No Conflict Rules Favor the Better Player
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
- Start date
Is this the same as playing the ghost? Why be rewarded for not making a ball? Why not break and turn the table over? Like a kick off in football.
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Hmm
Now that is a way to argue for or against the point. The challenge would be how do you penalize someone for safety breaking, making games go very long? Institute something like Joe Tucker has for American Rotation after three fouls--two consecutive ball in hands?
Now that is a way to argue for or against the point. The challenge would be how do you penalize someone for safety breaking, making games go very long? Institute something like Joe Tucker has for American Rotation after three fouls--two consecutive ball in hands?
I believe Paul's rules have certain requirements that need to be met in order for the break to be considered legal. None of which, is making a ball on the break, of course
Lucking a ball is okay...just don't make it a requirement. Slopping balls in on the break is fine by me.
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takeitdown
Banned
Paul, just because the best players won, in order of highest calcutta winners doesnt mean no conflict helped them win.Alternating break always helps the weaker player. Making it so players shoot, even if they dont make a ball should only help the better player. The only way letting a player have every or every other breaks helpsvthe better player is when they fail to runout. I will give a B+ and below all the breaks,since they rarelybrun over 5 after the break and might break and runout 1:8 times.
Not true. Alternating breaks makes the matches closer but the better player wins more often. (good in every way)
The break is the most important shot in the game. You are taking that away and punishing players that have practiced it and break well, makes no sense.
Maybe not, but I made a lot of money in 10 yrs at Bennies with the toughest players in the country. I bought a house, 7 cars & trucks, and paid my bills with pool money. Not too bad for someone who ( acording to you ) has no knowledge about 'this game'.
ps
Ohh, tell Corey and Shane they 'fluke' a ball on the break. You could rack'm tight & straight and they ( and a lot of others ) would make balls on the break.
Just my opinion, of course........but I would 'bet' on it.
Youtube is rife with all their racking shenanigans. It needs to stop.
You are exactly right. The break is the most important shot of the game. The break is highly skilled. Control the cue-ball. Control the 1-Ball. Get a good spread. It is very difficult to do all of this. How many times does a player break perfectly, sit the cue ball in the center of the table, have a perfect shot on the 1-ball, but he sells out because he happened not to fluke a ball in on the break?...or...a player breaks terribly, puts the cue ball on the footrail, puts the 1-ball on the headrail, and happens not to make a ball on the break, and now it is his opponent's shot. It seems to me that the virtues of reward and punishment are better served by having a player shoot what he breaks. Leave the lucked and wired ball out of it.
I fully agree with that! Rack your own is a joke and in my opinion, so is 1 foul 9 ball.
I dont play anyone rack your own. And since 1 foul 9 ball, I play very little 9 ball ( unless I find someone who will play 2 foul push-out ) . 1 hole and bank pool are the games I play now. Too bad. I loved 9 ball in the 70's.
It doesn't matter who racks. They are doing stuff.
Not much of an advantage
Corey, one of the best rackers, doesn't have a huge advantage over any other pro. Winning on 57% of your breaks isn't huge. A break should be an advantage. I will guarantee that if you gave him ball and hand after the break that 57% escalates to a huge number
http://pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_502032
Corey, one of the best rackers, doesn't have a huge advantage over any other pro. Winning on 57% of your breaks isn't huge. A break should be an advantage. I will guarantee that if you gave him ball and hand after the break that 57% escalates to a huge number
http://pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_502032
It would take a very good player to give a B+ player the break playing 9 ball on a bar box. Just because he doesn't run out doesn't mean you win those games. He can play safe when he gets out of line and you only win a game when he makes a mistake and you can never run a rack. As far as Paul's rules, I don't think I would ever argue against a method that's working. He is wrong on call shot benefitting the weaker player though. Good players seldom luck a ball in compared to weak players.
Alternate breaks benefits the stronger player.
I will be happy to. It will be a few days before I can get to it.
It will be a few weeks but I will start a thread on this one.
I will be happy to. It will be a few days before I can get to it.
It will be a few weeks but I will start a thread on this one.
Then don't play 9 ball. 9 ball has a big luck factor - that's one of it's attractions.
The break - in a tournament, or any "match", just have a neutral rack the balls with a 9 ball rack and be done with it. Let the breaker see the rack and then decide how best to break. Develop a culture where racks are not manipulated and better breakers are not gaining an additional advantage on top of their skill at breaking. If the balls are in the rack with the 1 at the front, 9 in middle and any other rules you use for 2,3,14,15 (but really?) then they are in the rack. Rack tighter against the 1 so they spread better - that's all you need to do.
Alternating or winner breaks? Again, in a tournament or any kind of match play, winner breaks knocks the purity of the game into outer space. If you want a tournament where players are "sitting in their seat" and sweating then make the race slightly longer, start with alternating break and go to winner breaks when the break is stolen (i.e a player wins two games in a row and has earned the right to steal the other guys break - sinking the 9 shouldn't earn that right - it's already been rewarded with a win - why make it even easier for the winner?).
Calling shots: makes it easier for the weaker player? You have to be kidding?
First ill say playing better players then you does have its merits.
I would rather pay 20 bucks to get my butt whooped then pay 20
to go to a movie or something. I tend to put my head down and push
when I'm playing a good player. Who wouldn't want to tell a story how
they got spanked by Dechane, or Deual, or even Strickland for that matter.
How about a match against Jennifer Beretta, or the Black Widow? I would
give my left nut to play one of the ladies!
Some of the problem is too many are win oriented. If you can enjoy yourself,
and take something positive out of the game, then you are already a winner.
How many of us go into a casino and stick money into a slot machine?
What are your chances of winning? Not good! Thats why its called gambling.
My chances of beating a pro are as good as beating a slot machine. So why not try?
As for the rules talked about? Sound ok to me. Just another way of doing things. Kind
of like in Valley league....the 8 ball is neutral untill a legal ball is made, in apa, its not. Same
game of 8 ball, just a different way of playing it.
I would rather pay 20 bucks to get my butt whooped then pay 20
to go to a movie or something. I tend to put my head down and push
when I'm playing a good player. Who wouldn't want to tell a story how
they got spanked by Dechane, or Deual, or even Strickland for that matter.
How about a match against Jennifer Beretta, or the Black Widow? I would
give my left nut to play one of the ladies!
Some of the problem is too many are win oriented. If you can enjoy yourself,
and take something positive out of the game, then you are already a winner.
How many of us go into a casino and stick money into a slot machine?
What are your chances of winning? Not good! Thats why its called gambling.
My chances of beating a pro are as good as beating a slot machine. So why not try?
As for the rules talked about? Sound ok to me. Just another way of doing things. Kind
of like in Valley league....the 8 ball is neutral untill a legal ball is made, in apa, its not. Same
game of 8 ball, just a different way of playing it.
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......Okay
Paul, do you have anything else in mind for more changes in format? Did some more problems come up that you have a propose solution for or do you think you've found the right format by now?
I think you're on the right track and I'm glad to see you experimenting. Pool is stuck in some ways and you're trying to unstick her, so to speak.
Jeff Livingston