Prove CTE is better than Ghost Ball

[JB Cases]

Perhaps I'm not the only one who thought of it, but I'm betting duckie is laughing his *ss off at the chaos he caused with this thread. You know, his fixation with the Aiming Conversation forum? You guys are feeding logs into his fire.

Just some food for thought,
-Sean

Actually for once we have some positive dialog happening.

and so far cte and other aiming systems are crushing ghost ball in this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[8pack]

The balls are within a ball of the rail already. Set up according to your diagram. 4.33" pockets.

After watching your video it looked like you balls where just a little far from the rail,which isn't a big deal. Put the balls against the rail,I think it makes it a little tougher.

 

[JB Cases]

After watching your video it looked like you balls where just a little far from the rail,which isn't a big deal. Put the balls against the rail,I think it makes it a little tougher.

Less than a ball's width is a little far? Well that's all you get because it very wet here and the balls are sticky. The cloth is slow and I don't have time. That was one of the gaff runouts posted for a contest. How many tries until you got it?

I would like to see you do ten attempts uncut. See how many times you get it done out of ten. I will pay you $10 for each one you do over five. Do less than five and no money. 50% or better you get paid.

Free shot at lunch money.

 

[nobcitypool]

Well done John. And to your credit, you didn't edit the video to simply show the run out. You kept it real.

 

[robsnotes4u]

Agree

Well done John. And to your credit, you didn't edit the video to simply show the run out. You kept it real.

That was good shooting, that two to the three is tough. Really tests your speed and lines. A couple more times and you would have had it down.

Again, good job.

 

[JB Cases]

That was good shooting, that two to the three is tough. Really tests your speed and lines. A couple more times and you would have had it down.

Again, good job.

Yes it's a test of shotmaking and speed control for sure. Further proof that pool is more than shotmaking as everyone who talks about aiming says constantly EVEN THOUGH opponents of aiming systems constantly say we think it's all about aiming.

No, it's simply one aspect we like to discuss.

 

[8pack]

Less than a ball's width is a little far? Well that's all you get because it very wet here and the balls are sticky. The cloth is slow and I don't have time. That was one of the gaff runouts posted for a contest. How many tries until you got it?

I would like to see you do ten attempts uncut. See how many times you get it done out of ten. I will pay you $10 for each one you do over five. Do less than five and no money. 50% or better you get paid.

Free shot at lunch money.

No...you done it fine.

I'll pass. I just wanted to see you try it.

Not sure how many tries and its not the purpose of the drill either. It's what it present's and I'm sure you understand after trying it.More then likely you will go outside center cb and end up with some tough shots ,lets not forget about cb control.

Like to see the duck shoot it.:smile:

 

[8pack]

Well done John. And to your credit, you didn't edit the video to simply show the run out. You kept it real.

You are an intelligent person.

 

[JB Cases]

No...you done it fine.

I'll pass. I just wanted to see you try it.

Not sure how many tries and its not the purpose of the drill either. It's what it present's and I'm sure you understand after trying it.More then likely you will go outside center cb and end up with some tough shots ,lets not forget about cb control.

Like to the duck shoot it.:smile:

Well I am not really sure what the point is? What it presents is a gaff layout that makes it extremely difficult to get good shape on each shot. Yes speed control is critical and yes depending on where the cue ball ends up you might need some side spin but this has zero to do with the topic.

I mean you are a system user. So clearly for you using an objective system is better than ghost ball. So insert "system x" for you and you have proven by your video links that system x is better than ghost ball IMO.

I am a system user and I did the best I could with your runout using CTE and so for me CTE/ProOne is better than Ghost Ball for that out.

I found no shot that CTE Pro/One doesn't work for.

Duckie has no effing chance at this out and you have a better chance of a million dollars raining down on you than seeing him try it.

You also shot some other drills posted by Ekkes. Ekkes is a system user as well and his system is better than ghost ball.

That's the point of the topic and so far we have all proven that CTE/ProOne and pretty much all OBJECTIVE ball to ball systems are better than ghost ball.

Maybe not for every person - but I believe that the vast majority of people who really try to learn CTE and who "get it" (or 90/90, your system x, See System, etc...) will find that for them those methods are better than GB.

I don't doubt that Sean Leinen sees a fully formed ball. Nikola Tesla when asked how he got his ideas said they came as fully formed visions. No way to check that so benefit of the doubt prevails.

To which I say to Sean and everyone else, do the shot making tests and use whatever methods you know and if you're happy with the results then stick with what you like. If however you are not happy then PERHAPS you should try something else and THEN maybe you might improve and if so go with that.

Don't let any one tell you that x is as good as y UNTIL you try it for yourself. I find that CTE is better than GB - BASED ON SHOT MAKING DRILLS WITH BOTH.

I also find that it's good to force yourself back to basics and seeing how you appy GB. GB I think has been fractured considerably to mean pretty much estimation rather than visualization of an actual ball.

 

[robsnotes4u]

try it on an 8 footer

Yes it's a test of shotmaking and speed control for sure. Further proof that pool is more than shotmaking as everyone who talks about aiming says constantly EVEN THOUGH opponents of aiming systems constantly say we think it's all about aiming.

No, it's simply one aspect we like to discuss.

Havent tried, but I have an 8 foot at home, and there are some really tight position shots on a smaller table. Wouldn't think there is much room between the 6 and the corner posket to come around two rails for the three. Definitely can be done but not easy. Everything is so mush tighter on the 8 foot. Still think you shot well. I will try it one a 9 footer one of these days

 

[robsnotes4u]

A couple of things

Well I am not really sure what the point is? What it presents is a gaff layout that makes it extremely difficult to get good shape on each shot. Yes speed control is critical and yes depending on where the cue ball ends up you might need some side spin but this has zero to do with the topic.

I mean you are a system user. So clearly for you using an objective system is better than ghost ball. So insert "system x" for you and you have proven by your video links that system x is better than ghost ball IMO.

I am a system user and I did the best I could with your runout using CTE and so for me CTE/ProOne is better than Ghost Ball for that out.

I found no shot that CTE Pro/One doesn't work for.

Duckie has no effing chance at this out and you have a better chance of a million dollars raining down on you than seeing him try it.

You also shot some other drills posted by Ekkes. Ekkes is a system user as well and his system is better than ghost ball.

That's the point of the topic and so far we have all proven that CTE/ProOne and pretty much all OBJECTIVE ball to ball systems are better than ghost ball.

Maybe not for every person - but I believe that the vast majority of people who really try to learn CTE and who "get it" (or 90/90, your system x, See System, etc...) will find that for them those methods are better than GB.

I don't doubt that Sean Leinen sees a fully formed ball. Nikola Tesla when asked how he got his ideas said they came as fully formed visions. No way to check that so benefit of the doubt prevails.

To which I say to Sean and everyone else, do the shot making tests and use whatever methods you know and if you're happy with the results then stick with what you like. If however you are not happy then PERHAPS you should try something else and THEN maybe you might improve and if so go with that.

Don't let any one tell you that x is as good as y UNTIL you try it for yourself. I find that CTE is better than GB - BASED ON SHOT MAKING DRILLS WITH BOTH.

I also find that it's good to force yourself back to basics and seeing how you appy GB. GB I think has been fractured considerably to mean pretty much estimation rather than visualization of an actual ball.

What is the definition of a system? Why isn't ghost ball a system? For any ball to be made it has to replace the ghost ball, that is indisputable. With that every system main goal is to get into ghost ball position. The force has to go through the object ball in the direction of the pocket, otherwise it can not be made. Pretty simple.

So here is the definition of a system.
1.a set of connected things or parts forming a complex whole, in particular.
a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.
2. a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done; an organized scheme or method.

I can't find anything anywhere that a system is limited to "x" amount of steps.

Lastly, enlighten us with how you find A or C on the object with out estimating where it should be, Especially when you 5 or 6 diamonds away. No 8 paragraph, BS just answer that question. How are you so accurate at it?

 

[8pack]

Well I am not really sure what the point is? What it presents is a gaff layout that makes it extremely difficult to get good shape on each shot. Yes speed control is critical and yes depending on where the cue ball ends up you might need some side spin but this has zero to do with the topic.

I mean you are a system user. So clearly for you using an objective system is better than ghost ball. So insert "system x" for you and you have proven by your video links that system x is better than ghost ball IMO.

I am a system user and I did the best I could with your runout using CTE and so for me CTE/ProOne is better than Ghost Ball for that out.

I found no shot that CTE Pro/One doesn't work for.

Duckie has no effing chance at this out and you have a better chance of a million dollars raining down on you than seeing him try it.

You also shot some other drills posted by Ekkes. Ekkes is a system user as well and his system is better than ghost ball.

That's the point of the topic and so far we have all proven that CTE/ProOne and pretty much all OBJECTIVE ball to ball systems are better than ghost ball.

Maybe not for every person - but I believe that the vast majority of people who really try to learn CTE and who "get it" (or 90/90, your system x, See System, etc...) will find that for them those methods are better than GB.

I don't doubt that Sean Leinen sees a fully formed ball. Nikola Tesla when asked how he got his ideas said they came as fully formed visions. No way to check that so benefit of the doubt prevails.

To which I say to Sean and everyone else, do the shot making tests and use whatever methods you know and if you're happy with the results then stick with what you like. If however you are not happy then PERHAPS you should try something else and THEN maybe you might improve and if so go with that.

Don't let any one tell you that x is as good as y UNTIL you try it for yourself. I find that CTE is better than GB - BASED ON SHOT MAKING DRILLS WITH BOTH.

I also find that it's good to force yourself back to basics and seeing how you appy GB. GB I think has been fractured considerably to mean pretty much estimation rather than visualization of an actual ball.

I believe you.
Why? because you haven't done it,nor have you spent much time on it.
A lot of getting out of line can happen,and a lot of outside center cb aiming.(well for me anyways)

I know this is off topic but you preach so much on aiming and your system, just wanted to see it in action on drills I do.

Didn't mean to derail this Great thread.:wave2:

 

[JB Cases]

What is the definition of a system? Why isn't ghost ball a system? For any ball to be made it has to replace the ghost ball, that is indisputable. With that every system main goal is to get into ghost ball position. The force has to go through the object ball in the direction of the pocket, otherwise it can not be made. Pretty simple.

So here is the definition of a system.
1.a set of connected things or parts forming a complex whole, in particular.
a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.
2. a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done; an organized scheme or method.

I can't find anything anywhere that a system is limited to "x" amount of steps.

Lastly, enlighten us with how you find A or C on the object with out estimating where it should be, Especially when you 5 or 6 diamonds away. No 8 paragraph, BS just answer that question. How are you so accurate at it?

Don't tell me how long my answers should be. If I want to wrote 27 paragraphs then I will.

A system is a repeatable method that should work the same every time. Could be mechanical or mental (see Memory Palace).

Ghost ball can be called a system if that makes you happy. It is a subjective method that relies heavily on imaginative ability and estimation.

How do I find the Pro One aim points at distance?

Practice. You set up the shots and train yourself to see what those aim points look like at distance until you are comfortable orienting yourself to them.

Same way you would use ghost ball, with or without a device. Practice.

And of course you have to mentally estimate where the aim points are on the ball. But again with PRACTICE it gets fairly easy to slice the ball up mentally.

There are some ball sets where the stripe edges are at the quarter points if you want to use a visual guide to train yourself. I don't use it because I prefer to force myself to really bear down on the focus. It's the same reason I don't like ghost ball trainers for anything other than illustration purposes.

Like I told Duckie, I can always go back to Ghost Ball. Any time for any shot. I can always go back to any aiming method I want even pure feel. But I also have the tools of CTE/ProOne, 90/90, See System, Shane's Shaft Method, etc... to use if I want or need them.

If you think GB is the only way to go like Duckie apparently does then that's all you got. Better hope it works well for all the shots you will face.

All I know is that I gamble and CTE/ProOne aiming and 90/90 have pulled my ass out many times facing a "tough" shot. (and my shitty stroke has put my ass in the fire many times as well)

So it doesn't matter to me at all what you choose to use, just don't spend your time trying to stop other people from choosing to try other methods than whatever you like.

Because you can't know will be better for them. No one can.