Sometimes a poolhall has to adapt to changing times

[sfleinen]

Folks:

The poolhall that I frequent, Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT, is jointly owned and operated by an ex-road player, Eddie Locke, with another well-known local businessman.

Fast Eddies was written up a couple years ago as a poolhall unlike traditional poolhalls, due in large part to Eddie Locke's open-mindedness and forward-thinking:

http://newstimes.com/news/article/Fast-Eddie-s-more-than-just-another-pool-hall-3615154.php

Well, the establishment was just written-up again, this time for some of the "outside of the box" things Eddie will do to appeal to his customer base:

http://justvibephoto.com/2014/05/28...c-two-great-shows-at-fast-eddies-41914-42514/

It was Blues Night that night at Fast Eddies, and he had two regional-favorite blues acts, a truly great night. For those not familiar, Jon Chapman is a 20-year old blues phenom, plays great, and has a truly distinctive voice for blues.

My wife and I were there that night, and it was really something to play pool and listen to some truly great blues.

Sometimes a poolhall's gotta do what a poolhall's gotta do.

Just thought I'd share,
-Sean

 

[BeiberLvr]

I agree, Sean.

It's a pretty well known fact that it's very difficult (if not impossible) for most pool halls to stay open when they only cater to pool players.

Today's pool room owners need to have something that draws in the non-pool players, because those are the people that are most likely to spend money. At the same time, it's just as important to provide nice well maintained equipment for the pool players.

If I had the money, I'd open a place like this

Bear in mind, I don't consider myself to be great at designing floor plans. But basically you'd have a giant room. The outer portion would be raised, and would be a full service restaurant, and a full service bar by entrance. As well as a stage for live entertainment. In the middle, there would be a lowered area that would house ten 9' Diamond tables.

 

[boogeyman]

Folks:

The poolhall that I frequent, Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT, is jointly owned and operated by an ex-road player, Eddie Locke, with another well-known local businessman.

Fast Eddies was written up a couple years ago as a poolhall unlike traditional poolhalls, due in large part to Eddie Locke's open-mindedness and forward-thinking:

http://newstimes.com/news/article/Fast-Eddie-s-more-than-just-another-pool-hall-3615154.php

Well, the establishment was just written-up again, this time for some of the "outside of the box" things Eddie will do to appeal to his customer base:

http://justvibephoto.com/2014/05/28...c-two-great-shows-at-fast-eddies-41914-42514/

It was Blues Night that night at Fast Eddies, and he had two regional-favorite blues acts, a truly great night. For those not familiar, Jon Chapman is a 20-year old blues phenom, plays great, and has a truly distinctive voice for blues.

My wife and I were there that night, and it was really something to play pool and listen to some truly great blues.

Sometimes a poolhall's gotta do what a poolhall's gotta do.

Just thought I'd share,
-Sean

Great idea!

Hawaiian Brian's in Honolulu experimented with "extracurricular" events in its pool room.
A few years back it built a performance stage for anyone who wanted to showcase their talent,
e.g. singing, dancing, juggling.
A bit later, the poolroom built a huge partitioned area for live music.
One could play pool while listening to music.
The thing is, if you wanted to go into the stage area,
which incidentally was "covered" in such a way so that one couldn't see the bands from the outside,
one had to pay a fee of $30/person or so.
Unfortunately, when I patronized the place again a few years ago,
the quality of the pool tables went down significantly, save for a few gambling tables.

I hope —and it doesn't sound like it —
that Fast Eddie's didn't forget about the pool players in the midst of the "conversion" process.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Hawaiian Brian's and still visit the room when I visit O'ahu.
Heck, where else can I go play pool and listen to some cool local jams?!

 

[Colonel]

I agree, Sean.

It's a pretty well known fact that it's very difficult (if not impossible) for most pool halls to stay open when they only cater to pool players.

Today's pool room owners need to have something that draws in the non-pool players, because those are the people that are most likely to spend money. At the same time, it's just as important to provide nice well maintained equipment for the pool players.

If I had the money, I'd open a place like this

Bear in mind, I don't consider myself to be great at designing floor plans. But basically you'd have a giant room. The outer portion would be raised, and would be a full service restaurant, and a full service bar by entrance. As well as a stage for live entertainment. In the middle, there would be a lowered area that would house ten 9' Diamond tables.

It's a difficult situation to do though. I owned a hall designed similar to your dream. 10,000 square feet, bar, restaurant & stage on a raised platform in the middle, 21 9' gold crowns, 8 8' tables, 1 bar box and a dart area. I prided myself on maintaining the equipment in top notch shape. The problem was while it made good money, pool players mostly shunned it as the loud music on Wednesday, Friday & Saturday nights wasn't conducive to serious pool playing. Additionally while on those nights tables were packed, but never by pool players, the date night crowd, groups of friends out for an evening drinking were the majority & they're hard on the equipment, spilling drinks, leaning/sitting on tables screwing up rails etc. weekend days drew players as did nights without live music, but never enough of them as the reputation of being an "upscale" hall that catered to non pool players prevailed. It became a damned if you do damned if you don't thing. I always wanted a hall that big as I've been in this game my whole life but catering to pool players is NOT enough to keep the doors open & catering to those that want entertainment gave it a carnival atmosphere where serious pool was rarely going on, so I sold it. New owners ran it into the ground not maintaining equipment & focusing too much on the entertainment side pulling profits out & not putting any money back in. It still breaks my heart to this day that what I wanted, a large "real" pool hall is unsustainable.


Why am I the Colonel? Because I always get the chicken

 

[macguy]

Folks:

The poolhall that I frequent, Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT, is jointly owned and operated by an ex-road player, Eddie Locke, with another well-known local businessman.

Fast Eddies was written up a couple years ago as a poolhall unlike traditional poolhalls, due in large part to Eddie Locke's open-mindedness and forward-thinking:

http://newstimes.com/news/article/Fast-Eddie-s-more-than-just-another-pool-hall-3615154.php

Well, the establishment was just written-up again, this time for some of the "outside of the box" things Eddie will do to appeal to his customer base:

http://justvibephoto.com/2014/05/28...c-two-great-shows-at-fast-eddies-41914-42514/

It was Blues Night that night at Fast Eddies, and he had two regional-favorite blues acts, a truly great night. For those not familiar, Jon Chapman is a 20-year old blues phenom, plays great, and has a truly distinctive voice for blues.

My wife and I were there that night, and it was really something to play pool and listen to some truly great blues.

Sometimes a poolhall's gotta do what a poolhall's gotta do.

Just thought I'd share,
-Sean

What this is is looking for something to subsidize the game of pool. I know it is in many cases needed to keep the doors open but that does not make a good thing. It is just subverting the game. It is what make me actually happier just playing in my home by myself rather then going to a lot of todays pool rooms.

The game needs a new venue if it is to continue and even survive in any traditional way. They are in effect destroying the game in order to save it. I would rather play the game in a lower rent place without a bunch of fancy trappings. As was discussed in another thread recently pool should move to private non profit clubs that are dedicated to the tradition of the game.

Places with loud jukeboxes and dance floors and bands is not where pool is meant to be played. I don't want to play in the midst of chaos and that is what they are asking us who actually play the game to have to submit to. Could you imagine this on a golf course? Then again you don't have to imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

 

[macguy]

It's a difficult situation to do though. I owned a hall designed similar to your dream. 10,000 square feet, bar, restaurant & stage on a raised platform in the middle, 21 9' gold crowns, 8 8' tables, 1 bar box and a dart area. I prided myself on maintaining the equipment in top notch shape. The problem was while it made good money, pool players mostly shunned it as the loud music on Wednesday, Friday & Saturday nights wasn't conducive to serious pool playing. Additionally while on those nights tables were packed, but never by pool players, the date night crowd, groups of friends out for an evening drinking were the majority & they're hard on the equipment, spilling drinks, leaning/sitting on tables screwing up rails etc. weekend days drew players as did nights without live music, but never enough of them as the reputation of being an "upscale" hall that catered to non pool players prevailed. It became a damned if you do damned if you don't thing. I always wanted a hall that big as I've been in this game my whole life but catering to pool players is NOT enough to keep the doors open & catering to those that want entertainment gave it a carnival atmosphere where serious pool was rarely going on, so I sold it. New owners ran it into the ground not maintaining equipment & focusing too much on the entertainment side pulling profits out & not putting any money back in. It still breaks my heart to this day that what I wanted, a large "real" pool hall is unsustainable.


Why am I the Colonel? Because I always get the chicken

You in effect were not in the pool room business. There were pool tables there but it sounds like that is about it. From a pool player/owner stand point, it might as well have been a shoe store.

 

[King T]

Im going to have to agree!

What this is is looking for something to subsidize the game of pool. I know it is in many cases needed to keep the doors open but that does not make a good thing. It is just subverting the game. It is what make me actually happier just playing in my home by myself rather then going to a lot of todays pool rooms.

The game needs a new venue if it is to continue and even survive in any traditional way. They are in effect destroying the game in order to save it. I would rather play the game in a lower rent place without a bunch of fancy trappings. As was discussed in another thread recently pool should move to private non profit clubs that are dedicated to the tradition of the game.

Places with loud jukeboxes and dance floors and bands is not where pool is meant to be played. I don't want to play in the midst of chaos and that is what they are asking us who actually play the game to have to submit to. Could you imagine this on a golf course? Then again you don't have to imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

If the dance hall/concert room was next door, fine. But I too do not care for the side show..,

 

[Ty-Tanic]

That sounds like a really fun night. I completely agree that more pool halls should start trying different things to get a broader customer basis. The place I shoot at the most has a pretty cool set up. The whole bottom of their place is a nice Italian restaurant with a bar and the upstairs is a nice little pool hall. They have 8 8ft tables with a bar and a little sitting area. They normally don't charge their regulars table time as well which is very nice.

 

[BeiberLvr]

What this is is looking for something to subsidize the game of pool. I know it is in many cases needed to keep the doors open but that does not make a good thing. It is just subverting the game. It is what make me actually happier just playing in my home by myself rather then going to a lot of todays pool rooms.

The game needs a new venue if it is to continue and even survive in any traditional way. They are in effect destroying the game in order to save it. I would rather play the game in a lower rent place without a bunch of fancy trappings. As was discussed in another thread recently pool should move to private non profit clubs that are dedicated to the tradition of the game.

Places with loud jukeboxes and dance floors and bands is not where pool is meant to be played. I don't want to play in the midst of chaos and that is what they are asking us who actually play the game to have to submit to. Could you imagine this on a golf course? Then again you don't have to imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

Like I said before, it's practically impossible to sustain a place that caters only to pool players. If you've ever played in a weekly tournament at a pool hall, you'll know that to be true.

In a 30 player field, I'd estimate only between 5 and 10 actually spend money at the bar.

 

[Banks]

I always wanted a hall that big as I've been in this game my whole life but catering to pool players is NOT enough to keep the doors open & catering to those that want entertainment gave it a carnival atmosphere where serious pool was rarely going on, so I sold it. New owners ran it into the ground not maintaining equipment & focusing too much on the entertainment side pulling profits out & not putting any money back in. It still breaks my heart to this day that what I wanted, a large "real" pool hall is unsustainable.

The game needs a new venue if it is to continue and even survive in any traditional way. They are in effect destroying the game in order to save it. I would rather play the game in a lower rent place without a bunch of fancy trappings. As was discussed in another thread recently pool should move to private non profit clubs that are dedicated to the tradition of the game.

Places with loud jukeboxes and dance floors and bands is not where pool is meant to be played. I don't want to play in the midst of chaos and that is what they are asking us who actually play the game to have to submit to. Could you imagine this on a golf course? Then again you don't have to imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

I recently went out on a limb to get Diamonds into the place I hang out at. I've learned in bars and actual enjoy the atmosphere a bit. The tables and a little fixing up really helped the place out. It's on a section of street that's known for bars/drinking, so simply remaining as-is would've been doom when competing with larger places next door.

There were a few things that I wanted to balance. One was keeping out the cheapskates that would only show up for super-cheap pool, because a bar doesn't survive on 50c games, as the Colonel mentioned above. Aside from that, I wanted to keep a focus on reasonable tables, combined with reasonable drinks.. at a place that's relaxing to hang out at with some friends.

My opinion is that pool needs to move away from the sterile environment. Take a look at the Filipino games.. there's noise, people are surrounding the tables and everyone wants to get involved. American pool halls just make me think of taking a nap. Another thing is look at where the players are. How many players in the pool leagues? I'd guess that a large majority play out of bars, even if they're 'pool bars'.

I'm not saying that pool needs to be loud and in-your-face, nor does it need to mix with dance floors, but if a quiet pool hall with a few old people isn't getting people in the door, it's probably time to change things up. Things have been going well enough after not even 2 months that we're looking at doing another location, maybe something more hall-like than a rinky-dink bar with 4 tables. Last night, there were about 20 people at around 10 or 11, while the bars next door had about half that. Similar situation last week, too, but more in our favor. All 4 tables were in use for the 5 or so hours that I was there.

Is pool dying, or just the way people are trying to hold onto it? Because even regular folks have been giving compliments on the tables and how nice they are.

 

[macguy]

Like I said before, it's practically impossible to sustain a place that caters only to pool players. If you've ever played in a weekly tournament at a pool hall, you'll know that to be true.

In a 30 player field, I'd estimate only between 5 and 10 actually spend money at the bar.

You are not catering to pool players, you are presenting the game in a forum it is meant to be played. The non player will still come in as will the serious players. What needs to happen is it is not solely there with a profit motive. That is why a club type set up makes sense. Non profit dedicated to the game.

Or maybe owners who don't really need the money but just want a room the way they like it. Anyone going into the pool room business thinking they are going to make a fortune will be in for a big disappointment. You don't have to lose money, but you will not be sending the kids to collage with the revenue from a pool room.

 

[Ty-Tanic]

I have noticed that almost all the bars downtown Portland don't take care of their tables at all it seems like. Even Rialtos (which is a bar pool hall) doesn't keep up on their tables as much as they should. I like Sam's tables, they replace their cloth and clean the tables ever night. It makes all the difference playing on a nice clean well kept table. I would definitely be a regular at a bar charging .50 a game on nice diamond tables

 

[Banks]

I have noticed that almost all the bars downtown Portland don't take care of their tables at all it seems like. Even Rialtos (which is a bar pool hall) doesn't keep up on their tables as much as they should. I like Sam's tables, they replace their cloth and clean the tables ever night. It makes all the difference playing on a nice clean well kept table. I would definitely be a regular at a bar charging .50 a game on nice diamond tables

Lol! Looks like I'll be seeing you around then! :grin: I also got a diamond ball polisher and even a small vacuum. Not something you're going to find at many bars, especially with only 4 tables. Will probably have to replace the cloth in a few months with how much use they're getting.

If you build it, they will come. If you make them happy, they will stay.

 

[RussPrince]

If I had the money, I'd open a place like this

As an ex pool hall owner let me give you a piece of advice. Don't ever own a pool hall.

 

[Colonel]

As an ex pool hall owner let me give you a piece of advice. Don't ever own a pool hall.

Amen. It's nothing but heartache

 

[sfleinen]

Great idea!

Hawaiian Brian's in Honolulu experimented with "extracurricular" events in its pool room.
A few years back it built a performance stage for anyone who wanted to showcase their talent,
e.g. singing, dancing, juggling.
A bit later, the poolroom built a huge partitioned area for live music.
One could play pool while listening to music.
The thing is, if you wanted to go into the stage area,
which incidentally was "covered" in such a way so that one couldn't see the bands from the outside,
one had to pay a fee of $30/person or so.
Unfortunately, when I patronized the place again a few years ago,
the quality of the pool tables went down significantly, save for a few gambling tables.

I hope —and it doesn't sound like it —
that Fast Eddie's didn't forget about the pool players in the midst of the "conversion" process.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Hawaiian Brian's and still visit the room when I visit O'ahu.
Heck, where else can I go play pool and listen to some cool local jams?!

Concerning the bolded part, that's a very good point and a valid concern. I can't tell you how many places I've seen do that -- "forget" about the pool players and let the tables fall into disrepair. I'm sure we all know of a place or two near us that fit this description.

Fortunately, Fast Eddies in New Milford, CT, is a stop on Mike Zuglan's Joss Tour, and one of Mike's requirements is that the venue must have had their tables service (reclothed, leveled, etc.) within one month of the tour stop date. And, Eddie Locke is also a table mechanic, who prides himself on the playability of his tables.

Although my wife plays pool with me because she likes to be part of those things that I like to do (and vice-versa -- I reciprocate in things she likes to do), she's not a pool enthusiast per se. But she loves coming to Fast Eddies precisely because of the extracurricular activities. Me personally, I can choose to patronize Fast Eddies on a quiet weekday where there are no extracurricular activities planned, if I need a quiet time to practice. (It's not like Eddie Locke books every single night with extracurricular activities -- he's a pool player himself, and realizes that some of his customer base want a quiet poolhall in the traditional sense.)

-Sean

 

[Careyp74]

My favorite back in the day was because of their forward thinking too. 90 miles away from Fast Eddies in Groton was the Sports Bar, 12 tables and an adjoining strip joint with another two tables in it. Been over 10 years, I think they might have gotten rid of the pool tables by now.

 

[bdorman]

Running a business is like a customer-driven democracy. Customers vote with their money. An owner adds things that his customers are willing to pay for, and subtracts the things they aren't willing to pay for.

I don't like the results because every pool table comes with loud music, dirty/worn equipment and so forth. But I don't fault the owner for catering to the voters.

 

[Careyp74]

Running a business is like a customer-driven democracy. Customers vote with their money. An owner adds things that his customers are willing to pay for, and subtracts the things they aren't willing to pay for.

I don't like the results because every pool table comes with loud music, dirty/worn equipment and so forth. But I don't fault the owner for catering to the voters.

That is the same mentality that caused Nokia to stop making paper and The Gap to stop selling records. Good for them, sucks for people that like paper and vinyl. Why not get rid of the pool tables and make more room for dancing? That would really turn a profit.

 

[Pidge]

Over here we have a franchise called Rileys. I've visited a fair few of their clubs but at this years World Snooker Championships I visited one in Sheffield. They had it right. One of the nicest places I've played pool in. The place was huge, it was set over 3 stories. Bottom level was the UK pool tables, all pristine, plenty of room around each table. Second level was snooker tables, all immaculate and again lots of room. Top level had around 6 snooker tables and 6 9ft diamonds as well as several dart booths (I've never seen booths set up like that for darts, except for at professional and top amateur events), a big seating area with a stage, a projected tv showing live snooker behind the stage and a seating area for food. Each level had a bar, served food and had a smoking balcony.

I asked the guy behind the bar what the stage was for and he said they have regular comedy shows and bands to attract people into the premises. I think they had it pretty spot on if you ask me. Pool players as a whole are pretty tight with their cash, me being one of them and don't spend much at the halls except for table time. It must be hard to make a living solely from hours spent on the tables, so it makes sense to attract people not concerned with pool who are happy to spend money at the bar and on food whilst they listen to a band or what ever. They managed to do this at Rileys whilst keeping the pool players happy with fantastic tables.

If only it was closer to me.