Fair enough.
This is about Shane
- Thread starter 7forlife
- Start date
Fair enough.
Various reasons like missing blacks off the spot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DwZCaejmsI&t=38m5s
lol
I get it.
You think pool should be an endurance sport to wear the other guy out.
So a better 55 year player would eventually get beaten by a 25 year old in every race to 100 or 500 for that matter.
I probably can beat a 60 year old senior PGA golfer once in a while if we walk 4 rounds in a day.
I don't think the word "brutal" applies to pool. I think it works better with a Triathlon IMO.
sonnymanila
Registered
race to 300 points, who would score more? spurs or heat? just kidding
Actually....sorry to burst your bubble but plenty of sports are measured in long distance one-on-one matchups to determine the best of the best.
When Willie Mosconi was in his prime the World Champion was determined by challenge and the winner held the title until it was taken from him in a negotiated match just like boxing.
He won it 17 times that way iirc.
And I never claimed Shane is the best in the world - I said he is in an elite group among the best in the world. And in the long race format in the TAR era he has the best stats.
If pool is a sport then why shouldn't endurance be part of it?
The WC is a tournament that carries pressure because of the prestige. But for professional play in 9 ball it's a SHORT race. No one complained when it was a race to 17 under matchroom for the title. That was a long enough race to even out the rolls.
But the WPA for whatever reason likes to jack around with the format and prove yet again that pool players will take whatever they want to do to them.
Winning the WC is an accomplishment no matter what. That's clear. Winning any major event is a big deal.
But to claim that Shane is somehow "weaker" because he hasn't YET won one is just silly which is the premise I get from the OP and many others. Shane has all the skill needed and maybe someday he will get the rolls needed to hoist the trophy.
I don't get it though why people try and denigrate Shane when he stands there and says NO ONE on Earth is barred from playing him in the TAR race to 100 format.
I mean if he is supposedly weaker in short races against the world's elite then he should get flat out wiped off the table in longer races.
If I was John Mars I'd put out a challenge like this:
Immediately following the World Championships the world champion is invited to double his money by playing a race to 100 for the whole amount against Shane. Should be easy money.
But ALL the pros on earth know that playing Shane is tough action. ALL OF THEM.
ALL of them can beat him in any given race to 11. VERY VERY VERY few of them have any chance to beat Shane going to 100.
And that's what it's about. All pros will tell you that it takes ROLLS to win any major tournament. You can play perfect but you also need to get some good rolls as well.
Got a source?
The way I remember it is that there were round robin events spread out over weeks but that anyone could challenge the champion any time during the year.
And even before 14.1 became a game the best of the best was determined by challenge matches - matches played in front of big crowds, with the results reported on the front page.
Look up the story about Hoppe vs Gagineaux (think that was his name)
Hoppe went to France to challenge the best player and two countries were in a frenzy about the match with huge bets being placed during the match.
You really don't get it. That's cool.
Freddie <~~~ seems that everyone understands the snooker world championship
Right I don't get it. That's why pool is completely invisible to public, except the people on this site.
Great posts JB. It's too bad that the short bus folks on here can't comprehend the variance aspect of short race tourney pool. Corey agreed it was a crapshoot via a lengthy discussion on Facebook and was calling for a revamp to the old format of longer races and that was the overwhelming agreement among his playing peers as well.
What do the pros know?? It's all sour Appletons errr apples... YOU are just pissing up a ROPE trying to get thru to most of these maroons..... :wink:
thefiftteen
Registered
Shane is a class act both on and off the table. Anyone who does not put him in the top 10 players in the World clearly does not know much about pool.
In any tournament he is a name that the other players want to avoid. There is a very strong case for saying he is the best money player in the World.
Tournament wise, he is more than capable of winning anything he enters, and I think he will win several majors in his career. He just hasn't done it yet, so can not really be compared to people with the CV's of Mika, Ralf, Darren, etc who have managed to win consistently, despite "short races, alternate breaks, magic racks etc."
I suspect it's down to a few missed opportunities, and not quite getting the rolls at the right time. In a tournament it only takes two or three errors in one match and you are out. The level of consistency has to be incredible.
I remember Darren's first win in 2008 Ten Ball. In the last 16 he was hill hill with Kawabata the Japanese player. Kawabata had the easiest 8 9 and ten to make and choked. Since then Darren has not looked back.
I am sure Shane will have his rolls at some point he just has to make the most of them which he is more than talented enough to do.
In any tournament he is a name that the other players want to avoid. There is a very strong case for saying he is the best money player in the World.
Tournament wise, he is more than capable of winning anything he enters, and I think he will win several majors in his career. He just hasn't done it yet, so can not really be compared to people with the CV's of Mika, Ralf, Darren, etc who have managed to win consistently, despite "short races, alternate breaks, magic racks etc."
I suspect it's down to a few missed opportunities, and not quite getting the rolls at the right time. In a tournament it only takes two or three errors in one match and you are out. The level of consistency has to be incredible.
I remember Darren's first win in 2008 Ten Ball. In the last 16 he was hill hill with Kawabata the Japanese player. Kawabata had the easiest 8 9 and ten to make and choked. Since then Darren has not looked back.
I am sure Shane will have his rolls at some point he just has to make the most of them which he is more than talented enough to do.
Would John Mars stake Shane vs. anybody in the world playing straight pool to 500? Which is a game designed to be played at length, and not a short, smash into the headball, break dominated game like 9 ball? I'm curious to know. Maybe he would
Isn't that what was being played in those challenge matches that actually got some national attention, unlike today?
Just looked it up. According to Appendix II of the Hustler and the Champ, by R.A. Dyer, the first challenge match occurred February 29-Mar 4 in Kansas City, Mo, between Mosconi and Andrew Ponzi. I'll have to find that chapter in the book, but pretty positive the switch to Challenge matches came because of the Depression and War, and the big tournaments were seen as two extravagant and in bad taste during war time.
Ok no gambling, bring your best European player. It will be a tournament Shane vs "Insert your man here" 50k entry fee. Make the race longer than 5
Probably not. But straight pool blocks were typically 1500 back then in the big challenge matches. If straight pool was the game today then Shane would be exactly where he is, at the top of it and a master of the long play format.
People think all Shane's game is is the break. It isn't. But he deserves credit for having the dedication to master the break as much as humanly possible. Even at that the break doesn't always go his way as seen in the Chang match.
I would like to see the World Championship contested over a two week period and consist of 8 ball, 10 ball, rotation, and one pocket. forget nine ball and it's lucky rolls.
Four top level games that all require much more skill than luck and make first prize $500,000. 64 player with poker style round robins allowing the winner of the group to advance. Qualifiers all over the world for months to get in. Every player has to qualify to participate. Thus the final 64 will be the best in the world and the winner will be the best of the best. Shane probably won't win it but he will at least have a lot of play to insure he gets a damn good shot at it as do all the others.
I think you might be right when it comes to straight pool and the war. But Mosconi's championships came after the war was over iirc?
His first came in 1940-41, in an event that spanned eight rooms in five cities. Runner up was Andrew Ponzi.
I like your idea of the world championship being like a decathlon of different games, but I wouldn't ever expect one pocket to be a part of it. Is it played anywhere outside the U.S. On a regular basis? I know foreign players play it in the U.S, but usally for big(ger) money. Do they ever go back home and play it in their own countries? I don't know. It's growing on me, but it still seems too much a U.S. Only gimmick game like banks.
Stay classy, JB.
Doing that would only make Mars and Shane look silly, regardless of how those matches would go. They both seem too smart to pull a move like that, which would reek of hubris and poor sportsmanship.
Nobody should doubt that Shane is a top player, and unlike a lot of those defending his inability to win a world title (so far) he always seems to carry himself with class. The fact is that Shane hasn't performed on the world stage like he has in American tournaments. There are reasons for that besides "rolls" and "variance", no matter how much some people here would like to ignore them.