It's definitely a system based on perception, not 2d geometric lines and angles. That will never work. Don't overthink it. Take the shots on the DVD to the table and just shoot them. Over and over. Give it a couple weeks. It will click. Don't overthink it. Give yourself a chance and do that first, then come back with questions.
Stan Shuffet Challenge
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It's definitely a system based on perception, not 2d geometric lines and angles. That will never work. Don't overthink it. Take the shots on the DVD to the table and just shoot them. Over and over. Give it a couple weeks. It will click. Don't overthink it. Give yourself a chance and do that first, then come back with questions.
If you are not familiar with CTE, don't start with the 5 shots that stretch the 15 degree perception to its absolute limits. Start with the DVD shots, specifically designed to learn. You don't pull out Stravinsky when first learning to play piano.
When you hear people trying to discuss CTE with the words angles and fractional aiming terminology, it's immediately clear the conversation is useless. It's almost like trying to describe the difference between blue and red to a blind person that had never been able to see. CTE is so different from the conventional way of thinking, I understand why these "discussions" go in the direction they do. It wasn't all that long ago that I went through the same thing and had the same thoughts and questions. The difference is, I kept watching the DVDs, went to see Stan and spent hundreds of hours at the table working on it.
The choice is rather simple. You can keep asking how those 5 shots can be made with a CTE, ETA perception with the same 1/2 tip pivot and state disbelief or you can take the system to the table and prove it for yourself. Of course the cut angles are different, nobody is arguing that. That's a key to CTE, the same perceptions and exact 1/2 tip pivot results in different cut angles for different shot layouts and distances between the cb and ob. How many times does that need to be said in the exact same way before people start to accept it as fact. Other than saying it is due to the perception and alignment, I i have no way to explain why it works. I wish I did. But it just does and it works perfectly without any subconscious tweaking.
If you prefer to believe differently, that's fine. Keep aiming the way you always have or any way you want. Just quit trying to poison other open minded people's opinions when you don't know what you're talking about because you clearly don't understand the system. Just because you place a ? at the end of a sentence doesn't automatically qualify it as a question. And it really doesn't fool anyone about your intentions.
The choice is rather simple. You can keep asking how those 5 shots can be made with a CTE, ETA perception with the same 1/2 tip pivot and state disbelief or you can take the system to the table and prove it for yourself. Of course the cut angles are different, nobody is arguing that. That's a key to CTE, the same perceptions and exact 1/2 tip pivot results in different cut angles for different shot layouts and distances between the cb and ob. How many times does that need to be said in the exact same way before people start to accept it as fact. Other than saying it is due to the perception and alignment, I i have no way to explain why it works. I wish I did. But it just does and it works perfectly without any subconscious tweaking.
If you prefer to believe differently, that's fine. Keep aiming the way you always have or any way you want. Just quit trying to poison other open minded people's opinions when you don't know what you're talking about because you clearly don't understand the system. Just because you place a ? at the end of a sentence doesn't automatically qualify it as a question. And it really doesn't fool anyone about your intentions.
Don't get to worked up on this..there's a reason you don't see the illusion.
I actually feel if the curtain was left out and calling it a CENTER pocket system and maybe a few other things, this system would of took off in a much stronger and positive way( and more realistic), and less arguing. Not that people were trying to attach Holy Grail to it, but it sure felt like.:smile:
Do you honestly think you're fooling anybody when you use such insulting words? CTE perception is not an illusion in the least. The only illusion here is in your mind when you think you're fooling anybody about what your true intentions are by posting on this thread.
I then thanked you for the offer & politely declined as I had not too long before had just ruptured a disc in my back & had no inclination to travel & also had some family occasions coming up like a wedding & the birth of my first Grandchild. I'm still having back issues.
What do you mean. I'm still at it? If you are referring to being intrigued by CTE, then yes I am.
I had an open mind to it then with no preconceived notions. I've watched your youtube videos & perception 1 & 2 put some rather serious doubts in my mind. I have discussed CTE here locally with a couple of people & quite honestly did not get the best reviews. I understand that 100% acceptance success is a rather unattainable goal & accomplishment, so I have basically kept an open mind.
You seem to imply that I have been putting down CTE but that is simply not true. It seems you have swallowed someone's Kool Aid on this one.
If there is a 'visual illusion' that occurs I hope I can see it when I do the 5 shots look see in a couple of weeks but I just can't 'see' it from a logical & rational perspective & based on my many years of playing the game.
AND I am still playing & do not wish to just plunge into a whole new system that to me seems a bit complicated. CTE is probably one of your 'loves' & 'passions'. It's simply not that way for everyone else.
I have been reading your posts on AZB & I will tell you that you do not come across as the nice guy that you did a year or so ago.
IMHO, AZB is NOT the nicests of places to be exposed to & can take some down a road they may not normally go.
Again I wish You every Continued Success with bringing CTE to the mainstream & I wish EVERYONE that tries it has the same success that many already seemed to have had.
I can't help it that your explanations don't yet click with me. I have coached both children & young adults for quite a few years and found that sometimes certain things have to be said in several different ways for it to 'click' with different individuals. When I can't convey my meaning to them I do not blame them. I take it has my failing not theirs.
I hope you can see my points. A 'teacher' should.
I'm sorry I seem to be making you expend some energy for someone that you don't care about & don't care if I never get it or some similar words of yours to that effect.
Like I said before, I guess we will just have to agree that for now we simply have differences of perceptions at least when it comes to 5 parallel shots from one visual.
When I do the 5 shots look see & if I even come close to pocketing all 5 from the same visual I will immediately come on here & say that it works as you state.
Until then I just can't 'see' it.
Best Wishes & Much Success,
Rick
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Your last post to Anthony and driving balls to the end rail...... I know how to read that!!
Stan Shuffett
oneball
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Perhaps you (or one of the other experienced cte users here) can help me out. Reading the thread, it seems that I've been mistaken, and the rails are supposed to affect my perception such that the 5 parallel cb/ob pairs will all go into the same pocket using the 15 degree left perception.
Try as I might, my cte/eta perception on each of the 5 shots takes me to the same relative orientation. The shot closest to the left rail pockets. The next shot (the next pair toward the middle of the table) misses to the right, hitting the endrail. The next closest to the center misses about an equal amount more right (which tells me my stroke is consistent), and so on. I have watched the dvds quite a few times, but I am still trying to master manual pivots (not ready for pro 1 sweeps yet).
I've seen the.visual perceptions the shots give and they are nothing alike.
In order to see what you see I simply worked my way back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Psy5hOJT0
1) Set up the above shots that supposedly require the same visuals and the same pivot.
2) Do some reverse engineering by:
a) placing a ball in the correct ghostball position.
b) lining up cueball and ghostball
c) place your stick on the line of the shot and then reverse pivot to find your outside "edges of the cueball"
d) mark the outside edges and remove the placed ghostball
e) rise to the standing position with the cueballs outside edges in place and notice the visuals between the cueballs and object balls.
You're [intentionally] forgetting the fact that CTE doesn't take you to ghostball except on straight-in shots.
Hence the slight over cut that occurs.
Nice try though.
Yeah you gave it a nice try but no. I know where the ball needs to be in order to make the shot. That is how I know the tangent line etc.
Btw- How do you figure your position route if you are unable to locate the correct contact point?
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Gee thanks!It would have been nice to know that when I practiced CTE on the snooker table (snooker table being the best tester of aim IMHO), banging balls into the rails over and over and not finding any perceptions that worked. You see I thought since the system was such an "objective" and "center pocket" system that it would work if you followed the instructions to the letter. So that's what I did. I watched only the balls (trying to forget about the pocket) and pivoted strictly, trying one perception (visual) after another. According to the DVD I watched (nr.1) there was nothing there about adjusting, just that one of the perceptions would work for center pocketing. And Stan had shown video of playing through a curtain as well. I thought that I must not be doing it correctly.
I would make a couple balls in a row, then miss a ball and not be able to make it on repeat attempts no matter what visual I used. Then I sort of gave up on this (after probably being a laughing stock at the pool hall for a couple of weeks) and tried a looser Pro 1 approach and started making more balls. I guess it gives more room for letting the subconscious mind fill in the blanks? After a couple of weeks of this I wondered: Why am I doing all this work with the pivoting and staring into the balls until I go crosseyed when I am adjusting anyway. I might as well go straight to the source and let the subconscious pick out the shot line. All the unnatural staring and twisting was wearing me out mentally and not giving any better results (compared to other systems). I had time off from work and was playing 4-5 hours every day on average for about a month. So I invested maybe 120-150 hours total. That may not seem like much, but I am telling you, that is an awful lot of time to spend in a short time frame, with nothing to show for it other than sore eyes and a messed up stance. How much time is an average potential customer going to spend, I wonder? I felt that I might as well stick with back-of-ball aiming. Going directly into the shot line, instead of twisting and messing my stance up. So that's what I did.
If CTE is working for you, then that's fantastic. I gave it my best effort and alotted quite a bit of time to it as well. I am not in any way saying the system doesn't work. I am merely challenging some of the claims made or implied by the devotees. I don't see why my and others opinons on the system calls for a lot of the name calling and ridicule and frankly both pompous and arrogant replies that we have received. If that is how you wish to debate, then go right ahead. I hope that behind all your smug, angry and self important posts are people who run out like water and enjoy the game. Otherwise it would just be sad.
Very close to my own experience and thoughts. Have tried it on a snooker table too.
You MUST NOT get directly behind the edge to A line. That will be a problem.
And you MUST NOT get directly behind the CTE line either.
Let's simplify:
Go to a side pocket and face straight to the other side pocket.
Place CB and OB out in the middle 1.75 diamonds apart as a zero angle shot to the other side pocket.
LCBE TO A
CTE TO ROBE
Manual right pivot
Shoot zero angle shot very strictly with right manual pivot.
Move CB to left .25" same shot
Move CB To left .25". Same shot
Proceed in same manner until the right pivot must become a left inside pivot.
Center pocket center pocket center pocket
Same shot......
Make a study of this.
Sweeps and manual
Stan Shuffett
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Like I said, reading comprehension.... You are still stuck on your erroneous way. Won't let go of it long enough to actually learn something.
oneball, try first getting aligned as if you were going to shoot the shot as you normally would. This will get you close to the proper alignment. Keep your back foot in place or close to that. Now find Center cb to Center ob with your vision. Move slightly left until you see Center to Edge. Move slightly more until the ETA also comes into view. Now look at the line you see straight ahead of you when you have the perception of CTE and ETA. Move straight in on that line with your cue and pivot 1/2 tip to thin the cut.
I am guessing two things may be going on. The first would be your alignment. If you try to see this perception standing directly behind cte, you'll invariably undercut the shot. Second, you're possibly using the CTE or ETA line to pivot from. Both of these are very common mistakes early on with CTE. Try all this again using ETB. Now you'll need to offset even more to the left to properly see this perception. When you get it, move straight in with the cue and pivot 1/2 tip to thicken the cut.
If you continue to miss with an undercut, move a little further left and move your bridge hand a bit left when you come in with your pivot. Sometimes, you almost have to work backwards to figure out what you're doing wrong. If you need to, put a ghost ball in place and work backwards through the process to help you understand where you might be messing up.
As mohrt rightly suggested, you should be practicing the shots from the DVD and getting accustomed to the system. Several of those five shots are difficult and the one to the far right is at the very edge of the 15 perception, it is an tough shot.
Hope this helps.
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Kewl, the two of you have something in common. Neither of you understand how the system works. Unlike you, I don't post on your back hand english threads where I don't have the understanding you do of the subject. If I were like you, I'd be posting things like "i don't think this is right", "this isn't the pivot distance, you're obviously applying a subconscious tweak", blah, blah, blah. How would you feel about it if people were continuously harassing you with those type of posts? I think I know the answer to that but apparently that doesn't matter to you.
Unlike you, since I know I lack the facts to discuss the subject intelligently, I just read and try to learn something. I'm not that rude or arrogant. I subscribe to the old saying that it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt.
If I don't see what you & others see is that not what will happen & is that not what Anthony was implying.
I was first not able to successfully execute TOI as CJ first presented it. He made a suggestion to me on how to go about it & it started working.
I'm not comparing the two. I'm just saying that there was a communication issue between how CJ first said something that was cleared up by his suggestion to me & that was while I already understood the principles behind swerve with english that I have been using for decades along with the squirt of the CB.
Okay you win. Perhaps I should just lose all interest in CTE.
I know, I know... it will just be my lose. But that's okay because you don't care if I ever get it, or words to that effect.
Well... I do get it...It's visual & if you don't see it, it won't work, the thing its that certain things can't be explained. You just have to keep panning with it until you hit gold. Im not saying this facetiously. It's just what everyone on here that is using it seems to be saying. I guess they are trying to put it down too.
Believe what you want. Maybe you should go look at my posts regarding CTE from last year.
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